How to value a new Cadillac...

[takia]

Sorry if I am asking a really stupid question here.... I am looking at buying a 2004 Cadillac CTS from a local dealer. It is new (it was a demo for the owner) and has 4,200 miles on it. My problem is how do I determine a fair value on it since it is two years old? Do I use a used car value or what? It is really loaded (navigation, XM, OnStar, DL, Power EVERYTHING), but I am just confused!! Any help would be great!!! Thanks!!

 

[sw65galma]

Technically it's new since it's never been titled...But I'd still go from NADAGuides.com as a Used car.
Caddys in general Plumet (more so than any other car) in value once you buy them..Look for an equal car online in your area to get an idea of what they go for

 

[jeffreyjr]

also try kbb.com. Price it like you were trading it in to a dealer.

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Takia
Sorry if I am asking a really stupid question here.... I am looking at buying a 2004 Cadillac CTS from a local dealer. It is new (it was a demo for the owner) and has 4,200 miles on it. My problem is how do I determine a fair value on it since it is two years old? Do I use a used car value or what? It is really loaded (navigation, XM, OnStar, DL, Power EVERYTHING), but I am just confused!! Any help would be great!!! Thanks!!
it is a used car so follow the advice given. It is no longer new. DEMO=USED.
JMO

 

[exodus7627]

Not true DEMO=NEW as long as the car was never titled so the car is still a new car.

 

[carshark]

ok hi car salesman here

....one that car is not used it is a demo, by law under 4500 miles owned by a dealer does not need titled. that car is still considered new just without 4200 miles of warranty....the problem you will find here is that GM is doing the employee purchase price, which is already under dealer invoice less rebates. so as far as being able to negotiate a better price thats tough, especially if GM doesnt have whats called "MPA" or "VPA" money coming. so they wont receive a big multi-thousand dollar check from the factory at the end of the month to recoop their losses on that particular car. your only saving grace on that particular vehicle is that its an '04, we are already making way for 2006's, so if that car really was just a demo, you could prolly steal it almost, or should be able to, that dealership has been paying 13% interest or more on that car since it was new back in 2004....good luck...On the comment on caddy's losing their value? YES! they are not very good at all. great car to drive, and the look is good, but as far as value, youd prolly find a used 2003 with lower miles for about half what youd pay for a new 2005.. thats a bad deal IMO, other cars to stay away from in terms of decreasing value, KIA, HYUNDAI, CHEVY(cars only), FORD, LINCOLN(really bad on the LS), i could keep going but you get the picture...

 

[exodus7627]

I agree with you carshark because I am a dealer also :notsure: in N.Y. but as far as decreasing values FORD holds there value very well I am not talking about every car I am mainly talking about the explorers,escapes,mustangs,and the expeditions, as well as the F series and the E series.
By the way shark what kind of dealeraship do you work for?

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Exodus7627
Not true DEMO=NEW as long as the car was never titled so the car is still a new car.
Car may be new as a technacality...but one should approach it as used for value/purchase price.
JMO

 

[scubadoo]

The FTC defines a “used vehicle” as “any vehicle which has been driven more than the limited use necessary in moving or road testing a new vehicle prior to delivery to a consumer
Keep in mind that most State UDAP Statutes and Advertising Rules require that any material statements be reduced to writing and integrated into the Retail Purchase Agreement for the transaction. If a Monroney Sticker is posted in the vehicle’s window together with an FTC Buyer’s Guide and the Retail Purchase Agreement identifies it as a new demonstrator vehicle, the dealer is well advised to explain in writing whether the vehicle is new or used and under which regulations. The actual disclosures made will depend upon State Law. Whether a vehicle is new, used or a demonstrator may also impact a number of other disclosures made in connection with the sale, such as the warranty statement (i.e. whether or not the vehicle may be sold “As-Is” under State Law), state inspection disclosures, and the sales tax calculation.

 

[scubadoo]

State Advertising Laws will typically include another set of definitions for “new” and “used” vehicles and “demonstrator,” “factory official,” and “executive” vehicles as well. While one State may include demonstrator, factory official and executive vehicles in the definition of “new” for purposes of advertising disclosures, others may require dealers to advertise such vehicles as “used.” In a few states there is even a category of “new demonstrator.”

 

[scubadoo]

From Michael Royce
Article called Beat the Car Salesman.
Dealerships are always trying to unload "demonstrators" ("demos") -- cars that were driven by the managers or salesmen but are still legally new. The car salesman may tell you that the "demonstrator" has been immaculately maintained since it was driven by an "executive." He may also assure you that you can get a far better deal on this car than you would get on a brand new car. Don't believe it.
While a discount of $4,000 may seem generous at first glance, my experience tells me that the selling price of a "demonstrator" car is often not much less than if you bought the same car brand new. And if you take into account the fact that there is considerable mileage on this "new" car (which gets subtracted from the mileage allotment of your Factory Warranty) and the fact that "demonstrator" cars often receive lots of abusive wear and tear that may not be noticeable at first glance, the "demo" suddenly doesn't seem so attractive. Best Advice: avoid any offers to buy a "demo."

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Exodus7627
I agree with you carshark because I am a dealer also :notsure: in N.Y. but as far as decreasing values FORD holds there value very well I am not talking about every car I am mainly talking about the explorers,escapes,mustangs,and the expeditions, as well as the F series and the E series.
By the way shark what kind of dealeraship do you work for?

like i said.. cars... mustangs do not hold their value for anything here....I know the F series do very well, but for the most part nothing really domestic does very well in maintaining their value. I work for a Dodge Dealer here in des moines... i started the biz at 19 in Atlanta before i moved here to the midwest, well the midwest sells domestic, and the used car market is FABULOUS!! I sold new forever and here this is where the real money is at. However when i sell new ones the payplan is pretty strong because we always hit all the money out there!!! MPA money, VPA money, double spins, Van bonus, car bonus, trucks etc...(usually, not always but typically) this is one rockin store.. we sell on average 325-400 New cars a month, and about 200 used a month plus we are NO.1 in the country for certified used cars for Chrysler in a small market like the midwest, thats pretty strong.. Hows your business right now?

 

[scubadoo]

Takia...I did some reserch and will post the laws of your state as it pertains to a demo car. The law will allow the dealer to sell this as "new" but from a consumer standpoint it is a used vehicle. You should approach your negotiations from this standpoint IMO as it has considerable miles on it...and you must consider them "hard" miles. Keep in mind the FTC definition as well. You may want to do further research.
Here is the law..as you can see if they do not sell it before the 2006 models are out they will have to sell it as "used", although from a consumer stadpoint it is used JMO. This is the law of Ohio.
New Vehicles
The definition of a "New Vehicle" in the State of Ohio has undergone significant changes since October 1994. A new vehicle in Ohio is one in which the legal title has never been transferred to an ultimate purchaser, including a demonstrator. A vehicle is no longer new if it has been used, remanufactured or reconditioned. A vehicle is not new if it was a factory official vehicle or rental vehicle.
Under Ohio law, a demonstrator can be labeled a new vehicle, if and only if:
It has less than 6,000 miles on it, and
It is the current model year or previous model year.
Additionally, the dealer must always disclose to the consumer that the vehicle was a demonstrator vehicle, even if the vehicle meets the definition of a new car.
For more information on demonstrator and factory official vehicles, Blackstone Legal Publications has printed a manual that covers most issues concerning auto dealers and the consumer

 

[jhill5]

I agree with it as being used as far as the consumer goes. If you buy it today and drive it for 16 months and put 12,000 miles, do you have a 1 year old car with 16k miles, or a 3 year old car wit 16k miles?

 

[carshark]

ahh you mean in 2007 it will be a 3 year old car....with that many miles on it, the year is the year...

 

[lennon]

Originally Posted by Takia
Sorry if I am asking a really stupid question here.... I am looking at buying a 2004 Cadillac CTS from a local dealer. It is new (it was a demo for the owner) and has 4,200 miles on it. My problem is how do I determine a fair value on it since it is two years old? Do I use a used car value or what? It is really loaded (navigation, XM, OnStar, DL, Power EVERYTHING), but I am just confused!! Any help would be great!!! Thanks!!
Many dealers go with Galves values now. They used to do kelly blue book..but now they use this site.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by Lennon
Many dealers go with Galves values now. They used to do kelly blue book..but now they use this site.

actually the only book typically used for values is "Blackbook Value" which is wholesale, sometimes NADA is used if it is an extremely nice nice car, and they need a second opinion.. listen guys values are values, there is not much you can do about it, the only difference in values which is usually no more than 1000 bucks, is whether the manager uses rough book or clean book, or average etc. so by the way they say cleaning your car doesnt help, lol thats a myth its all about presentation, also, hide your service records until you trade it in, and make sure you do not have any other information from another dealership, because that extra 400 bucks he thinks it worth may go away if he sees that the dealership down the road is doing relatively the same deal.. I have many more secrets and since I am leaving the car business i dont mind sharing them...ive been selling cars for about 5 years and i cant take the 6 day work week with 65-70 hours... I am ready to get a life back, as well as tailgating during football season!!!!!! I miss my saturdays!...lol

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jhill5
I agree with it as being used as far as the consumer goes. If you buy it today and drive it for 16 months and put 12,000 miles, do you have a 1 year old car with 16k miles, or a 3 year old car wit 16k miles?
A vehicle is as old as the model year. Milleage has nothing to do with it accept for computing high/low mileage additions/subtractions for the model year and based on zip code/location.

 

[jhill5]

i was just saying that if you bought the car new now, it would be 3 years old in 1 year. So I think it should be valued as used, if not it will depreciate even faster.

 

[carshark]

Originally Posted by jhill5
i was just saying that if you bought the car new now, it would be 3 years old in 1 year. So I think it should be valued as used, if not it will depreciate even faster.
I understand what you are saying, unfotunately thats just not the case.. better off to go find a pre-owned one!!