Hows that hopey changey think working out for you Part 114
- Thread starter reefraff
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reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414028
Misleading article. I am guessing that the major cause of the lack of insurance is due to high unemployment and not to do with Obamacare.
Let's see, 0bama care requires more services for more people. What do you suppose that has done to the cost curve?
Unemployment peaked at 10.1% nearly 2 years ago and has slowly declined so while I could see an increase in 08 and 09 it still shouldn't be going up due to unemployment. It's going up because companies are jacking the rates due to the increased cost they have already been hit with and those that are coming.
That brings to mind another thing 0bama could mention in his big speech to turn things around. TORT reform.
Originally Posted by DragonZim http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414028
Misleading article. I am guessing that the major cause of the lack of insurance is due to high unemployment and not to do with Obamacare.
Let's see, 0bama care requires more services for more people. What do you suppose that has done to the cost curve?
Unemployment peaked at 10.1% nearly 2 years ago and has slowly declined so while I could see an increase in 08 and 09 it still shouldn't be going up due to unemployment. It's going up because companies are jacking the rates due to the increased cost they have already been hit with and those that are coming.
That brings to mind another thing 0bama could mention in his big speech to turn things around. TORT reform.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
HAHAHA TORT REFORM HAHAHAHA
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414080
HAHAHA TORT REFORM HAHAHAHA
A guy can dream can't he?
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414080
HAHAHA TORT REFORM HAHAHAHA
A guy can dream can't he?
bionicarm
Active Member
The bulk of the plan doesn't even go into effect until next year. They haven't started offering the insurance pools, or any other discounted plans. Companies aren't "jacking up rates". Every corporation or large business I've ever dealt with, updates their employee benefits plans once a year, normally at the beginning of the year. My wife's insurance plan hasn't been touched, and she still pays the same rate for the same services we received at the beginning of the year.
What's the alternative? Romney's little plan to allow states to provide health insurance? How's that gonna work? Rev. Rick Perry recently whacked Medicare benefits in the State of Texas. You think he'll provide affordable insurance plans for Texas citizens? What do states like Cali and Michigan do when they can't even blanace their budgets, and are billions in the hole in deficits. Where do they get the revenues to help assist with funding insurance programs? Look how the Republicans have been railing RomneyCare and his Obama-like healthcare plan for Massachusetts. That's the problem with the Conservatives. They sit there looking for flaws in existing programs, but when you corner them and ask for their solution, they back pedal and deflect.
What's the alternative? Romney's little plan to allow states to provide health insurance? How's that gonna work? Rev. Rick Perry recently whacked Medicare benefits in the State of Texas. You think he'll provide affordable insurance plans for Texas citizens? What do states like Cali and Michigan do when they can't even blanace their budgets, and are billions in the hole in deficits. Where do they get the revenues to help assist with funding insurance programs? Look how the Republicans have been railing RomneyCare and his Obama-like healthcare plan for Massachusetts. That's the problem with the Conservatives. They sit there looking for flaws in existing programs, but when you corner them and ask for their solution, they back pedal and deflect.
mantisman51
Active Member
I'm torn on TORT reform. I like it in theory, but all power goes to insurance companies and hospitals. What you end up with is companies deciding if killing x amount of people will cost more or less than the required maximum lawsuit amounts. Yeah the John Edwards of the world have brought healthcare to it's knees. The converse is just about as distasteful.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414101
The bulk of the plan doesn't even go into effect until next year. They haven't started offering the insurance pools, or any other discounted plans. Companies aren't "jacking up rates". Every corporation or large business I've ever dealt with, updates their employee benefits plans once a year, normally at the beginning of the year. My wife's insurance plan hasn't been touched, and she still pays the same rate for the same services we received at the beginning of the year.
What's the alternative? Romney's little plan to allow states to provide health insurance? How's that gonna work? Rev. Rick Perry recently whacked Medicare benefits in the State of Texas. You think he'll provide affordable insurance plans for Texas citizens? What do states like Cali and Michigan do when they can't even blanace their budgets, and are billions in the hole in deficits. Where do they get the revenues to help assist with funding insurance programs? Look how the Republicans have been railing RomneyCare and his Obama-like healthcare plan for Massachusetts. That's the problem with the Conservatives. They sit there looking for flaws in existing programs, but when you corner them and ask for their solution, they back pedal and deflect.
Insurance rates started increasing at a higher rate than they had been before this disaster even passed and they have continued to go up since. Nobody I've talked to has had their rates remain flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414103
I'm torn on TORT reform. I like it in theory, but all power goes to insurance companies and hospitals. What you end up with is companies deciding if killing x amount of people will cost more or less than the required maximum lawsuit amounts. Yeah the John Edwards of the world have brought healthcare to it's knees. The converse is just about as distasteful.
One simple change would work, Loser pays but require the trial judge to order it so if someone loses a case on a technicality they don't end up paying the court costs of the other side. Baseless suites cost all businesses a lot of money, not just insurance co's. There is an industry built on lawsuits that are seeking less in damages than it would cost the company in court costs to prove their innocence. If a doctor botches a surgery they can still be sued. Another aspect of this is when you go in for an operation you are given a release stating possible complications involved in the procedure and agreeing not to hold the doc accountable if that should happen. I don't even know why they bother having people sign those any more because it doesn't keep people from suing because of the complications. That needs to be tightened up as well.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414101
The bulk of the plan doesn't even go into effect until next year. They haven't started offering the insurance pools, or any other discounted plans. Companies aren't "jacking up rates". Every corporation or large business I've ever dealt with, updates their employee benefits plans once a year, normally at the beginning of the year. My wife's insurance plan hasn't been touched, and she still pays the same rate for the same services we received at the beginning of the year.
What's the alternative? Romney's little plan to allow states to provide health insurance? How's that gonna work? Rev. Rick Perry recently whacked Medicare benefits in the State of Texas. You think he'll provide affordable insurance plans for Texas citizens? What do states like Cali and Michigan do when they can't even blanace their budgets, and are billions in the hole in deficits. Where do they get the revenues to help assist with funding insurance programs? Look how the Republicans have been railing RomneyCare and his Obama-like healthcare plan for Massachusetts. That's the problem with the Conservatives. They sit there looking for flaws in existing programs, but when you corner them and ask for their solution, they back pedal and deflect.
Insurance rates started increasing at a higher rate than they had been before this disaster even passed and they have continued to go up since. Nobody I've talked to has had their rates remain flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414103
I'm torn on TORT reform. I like it in theory, but all power goes to insurance companies and hospitals. What you end up with is companies deciding if killing x amount of people will cost more or less than the required maximum lawsuit amounts. Yeah the John Edwards of the world have brought healthcare to it's knees. The converse is just about as distasteful.
One simple change would work, Loser pays but require the trial judge to order it so if someone loses a case on a technicality they don't end up paying the court costs of the other side. Baseless suites cost all businesses a lot of money, not just insurance co's. There is an industry built on lawsuits that are seeking less in damages than it would cost the company in court costs to prove their innocence. If a doctor botches a surgery they can still be sued. Another aspect of this is when you go in for an operation you are given a release stating possible complications involved in the procedure and agreeing not to hold the doc accountable if that should happen. I don't even know why they bother having people sign those any more because it doesn't keep people from suing because of the complications. That needs to be tightened up as well.
bionicarm
Active Member
Insurance premiums have gone up 5% - 12% for the last 10 years, WAY before Obama came into office. My wife's monthly premium went from $125/month in 2001, to $325/month today. In 2001, we had $100 deductible with a $1,000 out-of-pocket max, and 90% coverage after the deductible. Today it's $500 deductible and $3,000 OOP max. Tell me how that's Obama's fault.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414177
Insurance premiums have gone up 5% - 12% for the last 10 years, WAY before Obama came into office. My wife's monthly premium went from $125/month in 2001, to $325/month today. In 2001, we had $100 deductible with a $1,000 out-of-pocket max, and 90% coverage after the deductible. Today it's $500 deductible and $3,000 OOP max. Tell me how that's Obama's fault.
In 2010 a buddy who pays for a private policy had his monthly premium jump from the 320's to 430 per month. Prior to that his biggest rate increase had been a fraction of that. And he's an Obamite LOL!, should have heard him try to explain that away. But he had no major claims against his policy so why the jump. My wife's part of her employer policy went from 42 a month to over 70. Don't tell me it didn't jump after 0nama care. I've heard too many people complaining that 0bocare was supposed to slow the increase, not speed it up.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414177
Insurance premiums have gone up 5% - 12% for the last 10 years, WAY before Obama came into office. My wife's monthly premium went from $125/month in 2001, to $325/month today. In 2001, we had $100 deductible with a $1,000 out-of-pocket max, and 90% coverage after the deductible. Today it's $500 deductible and $3,000 OOP max. Tell me how that's Obama's fault.
In 2010 a buddy who pays for a private policy had his monthly premium jump from the 320's to 430 per month. Prior to that his biggest rate increase had been a fraction of that. And he's an Obamite LOL!, should have heard him try to explain that away. But he had no major claims against his policy so why the jump. My wife's part of her employer policy went from 42 a month to over 70. Don't tell me it didn't jump after 0nama care. I've heard too many people complaining that 0bocare was supposed to slow the increase, not speed it up.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I have a question. Both sides keep saying we have to do something about the healthcare system.
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
mantisman51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414336
I have a question. Both sides keep saying we have to do something about the healthcare system.
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
I don't remember the exact #'s, but it is growing exponentially as a % of the GDP. So much so, that it threatened the economy. That's not hype, healthcare cost is just that out of control. I and my family rarely go to the hospital or clinic. When we do, we pay for every ¢ on our own. We are far from wealthy; just barely getting by actually. But that is why I am so opposed to Obummer care. How dare they call me the problem because I am not a leech on the system and try to force me to buy a private companies service I don't want? How 'bout all these single mothers who flood the emergency room because their money-makers have the sniffles be forced to pay their way instead of forcing me to get something I don't want or need? And before anyone says how "insensitive and bigoted" that last statement is, be prepared to eat your words, 'cause I have the CBO and CDC stats on who the biggest users(abusers) of healthcare is.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414336
I have a question. Both sides keep saying we have to do something about the healthcare system.
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
I don't remember the exact #'s, but it is growing exponentially as a % of the GDP. So much so, that it threatened the economy. That's not hype, healthcare cost is just that out of control. I and my family rarely go to the hospital or clinic. When we do, we pay for every ¢ on our own. We are far from wealthy; just barely getting by actually. But that is why I am so opposed to Obummer care. How dare they call me the problem because I am not a leech on the system and try to force me to buy a private companies service I don't want? How 'bout all these single mothers who flood the emergency room because their money-makers have the sniffles be forced to pay their way instead of forcing me to get something I don't want or need? And before anyone says how "insensitive and bigoted" that last statement is, be prepared to eat your words, 'cause I have the CBO and CDC stats on who the biggest users(abusers) of healthcare is.
slice
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414336
I have a question. Both sides keep saying we have to do something about the healthcare system.
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
I continue to stand behind my first post on these boards. Now that we passed it to see what is in it, my opinion remains unchanged; in fact, my opinion has been validated:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/375530/house-passed-the-health-bill/80#post_3250473
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/387751/hows-that-hopey-changey-think-working-out-for-you-part-114#post_3414336
I have a question. Both sides keep saying we have to do something about the healthcare system.
I am gonna ask why did we HAVE TO DO SOMETHING?
Also, why with a sinking economy was this the top priority of this first term?
I continue to stand behind my first post on these boards. Now that we passed it to see what is in it, my opinion remains unchanged; in fact, my opinion has been validated:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/375530/house-passed-the-health-bill/80#post_3250473
reefraff
Active Member
Doing health care first will go down as one of the biggest political blunders of all time. It cost Democrats control of the House and unless something remarkable happens the Senate and made a president who 6 months into his term seemed unbeatable for a second term an underdog.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Since 1993, how much has the cost of fuel increased?
I am willing to bet, the average family is spending far more on fuel costs than healthcare costs. Yet heathcare is what had to be fixed.
Which dictates the economy? Which dictates and directs the average citizens way of life? Which directly and immediately impacts the country?
Healthcare needed fixed though?
I am willing to bet, the average family is spending far more on fuel costs than healthcare costs. Yet heathcare is what had to be fixed.
Which dictates the economy? Which dictates and directs the average citizens way of life? Which directly and immediately impacts the country?
Healthcare needed fixed though?
reefraff
Active Member
HE DIDN'T EVEN ADDRESS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it didn't cost so much more people could afford it. But 0bama and the Democrats grand idea was to give greater access to a vital service that everyone agrees is too costly. I mean the utter stupidity of what they did is amazing. Had they first looked at credible ways to decrease costs, or at least slowed the rate of growth it would have been a economic stimulus rather than a drag.
If it didn't cost so much more people could afford it. But 0bama and the Democrats grand idea was to give greater access to a vital service that everyone agrees is too costly. I mean the utter stupidity of what they did is amazing. Had they first looked at credible ways to decrease costs, or at least slowed the rate of growth it would have been a economic stimulus rather than a drag.
mantisman51
Active Member
That's his "legacy". He won't allow it to be changed for anything. He would willingly give up a second term to keep that steaming pile. It goes beyond healthcare. It goes to the fact that if it's left in place, it will give the government complete control over all commerce by allowing them to determine everything we can and cannot purchase. The government becomes the arbiter of what is best for us. This even goes far beyond social security in government control of the populace.
mantisman51
Active Member
Next will be we can't buy food that will be a burden on healthcare. Then, what cars or trucks we can buy so as to have the least impact on society and health. That carpet in your house is putting off too much VOC's, you must now buy new carpet. Most chilling, guns are so dangerous and cost so much to the healthcare system they can now be banned or only guns with fingerprint technology can only be purchased/owned. This law sets the precedent that the government has the right to tell every citizen what they must or cannot buy. This is every liberals dream.
bionicarm
Active Member
Wow, mantis has some magic genes where he's immune from ever getting any major disease! No insurance? I pray you never have heart problems, some form of cancer, or any other disease that will require you to stay in the hospital for more than 3 days. All it takes is one catastrophic illnes, and you'll be living under a bridge. Oh wait, you can just file bankruptcy, and stick the doctors and the hospital with the bill.