hurricane katrina

scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Fuax
I do live in Fl.
Not to argue with you Scubadoo but just a breif explaination of why I beleive it was done. The Fl Everglades is Fl's only true water shed area not to mention it is the only habitat like it in the world. With out the maintance that you described the state would not be able to drain the surrounding areas into the everglades run off areas which inturn would cause So. Fl to flood (no where near the extent of New Orleans) but because most of So. Fl is only 10 to 15 feet above sea level.
Oh and btw I agree with you fully that this problem was forseen along time ago and should have been taken care of 10, 20, or even 30 years ago. Now with that being said it has happened and now we must deal with the situation at hand.
I fully support the project regarding the Everglades...but priorities need to be set and politics removed. Some federal spending should be based on national interest, protection of assets vital to the economy, etc. Governemnt likes to use the term investing now instead of spending. Investing sevral billions decades ago would have prevented SPENDING 10-20 fold today. While some may feel we should not look at the past. and quit Monday Morning QBing...the past can teach us all a valuable lesson...and prevent tomorrows catastrophe.
Risk assessment is never a govermnet priority...until there is a body count and/or major catatrophe. Too much a reaction and not enough proactivity.
Goverment should not be in the insurance business...but has done so and encourages folks to live in flood plains, coast lines, etc. Most federal programs are failures from an efficiency standpoint. Most usually fall short of projections and end up costing more then originally anticpated and communicated.
Many programs encourage rather then discourage...and increases risk rather then decrase risk. This can hardly be called "investing"...but it can be called SPENDING.

JMO
 
the reef

the reef

Member
if I did not have money I would still find a way to get the hell out of their before the storm came like write out a check that I know will bounce to get gas and have someone wire me some money or hitch a ride with a freind
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darth Tang
Not to be an ass, but when was the last time Holland experienced a class 4 Hurricane? When was the last time they experienced any hurricane? How is mirroring a plan set up in Holland, a Guarantee to work when both areas are geographically different with different weather patterns? That is like using an irrigation system designed for The Amazon rainforest and using it in the Sahara desert.
I suggest you watch the History Channel as they are now running a post Katrina special on the history of New Orleans, hurricanes and the levy system . Footage from Katrina, levy breaks ettc. Much of what I have said throughout this thread you will hear along with the Holland flood protection gate. as a solution for storm surges in this area . You will also see the plan called Coatline 2050 that was not approved in 1998. Very interesting show and one that will show the resorces that needed protection.
Show is called Katrina American Catatrophe. Just remember you heard it here first.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
I just saw a piece on the news that seemed disturbing. Why do I get the feeling that they are not confident that this levy is going to continue to hold? Could it be that they would get most of the water out just in time for the pressure to build back up again?
 
darth tang

darth tang

Active Member
I read something the other day on the funding for the flood walls and levees in NO. I was reading the thew millions appropriated for the walls and such weren't even being spent propewrly by the local govt. They were cutting corners. Where the main breach happenned there was a lock they were working on. In all actuallity the lock was due to be replaced and upgraded. Instead, the local govt. decided just to repair the old one and leave it. Saving them money. Now, if the lock had been done right, maybe things might have been different.
I heard the governor of LA also stating that bush should have sent more funding for the levees and such because we had a surplus? Where does she get her figures. The money they were sending wasn't even being used correctly in the first place. What good would more have done to help out the citizens of the area?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Mike Brown was the first to go but he wont be the last. The governor and Mayor are toast. I saw a story last night that said the mayor has already bought a new house in Dallas, moved his family there and enrolled the kids in school. Amazing how he could find the time to do that already. I read where the levy board has actually spent money to buy a casino, bought a lear jet and were working to develop a waterfront theme park. Seems like someone should have been yelling about that.
The things Holland has done to protect their "land" is amazing. The gate that protects the area around the mouth of the river is something else. I was there in 88 and they still used a lot of the old windmills to pump water out. Probably not many of those left.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
I was surprised that the Mayor spent most of this time in Baton Rouge during the early days of this disaster. The few times you saw him on TV he was in NO, but would leave after that. He should be in the trenches with the rest of the recovery workers. Most of those people work all day in that muck and don't get the luxury of fresh air and air conditioning in the evenings. Most are in tents. Hopefully they can move some of them to the naval ships and cruise ships. They need to make sure those people are well taken care of, I see post tramactic syndrome on the horizon for some of them.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I really feel for those rescue workers. Their idiot Senator made a remark that she wasn't going to cast blame on state and local officials because she knows how hard it is to get their people to work when it's sunny, let alone when a hurricane is on the way. I don't think she meant it the way it came across (but then again when asked why the buses weren't used to evacuate before the storm she said because they were flooded) but she needs to do some begging your pardoning and clarify the statement.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Well, if anything good has come of this nightmare, it will be that you can bet your levy that they will now be built to hold up. Government in general, local, state, fed, have a lot of thinking to do, and then some re-thinking. Post 911 was supposed to be safer USA. Isn't that why we voted for Bush?
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
You know, my point of view won't be popular, but I think the mayor let people down. I mean, if I was in a local crisis, I wouldn't be looking for the president or even the governor...I"m looking for the mayor, the police chief, the city government. I may be hysterical...but they shouldn't be outwardly hysterical, IMO. If I was in the Superdome, or didn't have food...and I heard something about the mayor basically freaking out about this or that on the radio or whereever, then I would TRULY be hysterical. He can scream at the president on the phone, whatever, but he should have been a symbol of some stability, a la Rudy Guiliani. The mayor, IMO, should have been out there, in a boat, with a bullhorn, telling people help is on the way. Don't rush the helicopters, evacuate, be orderly, everyone will get out, etc. Out there taking control, reassuring people, giving them hope. Even if he didn't think there was much, he should, IMO, have been on the scene giving people direction. That is what people were saying. No one there to tell them what to do. That is for the local officials to do, IMO. That is who I would have more trust in. But what's done is done, and its all hindsight...hopefully something to learn from.
I remember the governor on like CNN or something for quite some time one night early on. She looked sedated. And I was thinking, gee, don't you have like, something more important to do? Oh well.
And I didn't vote for Bush because he could control the weather
We can't forcast or predict everything. People will still die in car crashes and fires and murders and storms, etc. Some require personal accountability...some are just fate. :( Now things went wrong that looked fine, on paper. We need to be honest and sort them out. But all this finger pointing and blame without taking responsibility (so far I think Bush is the one who HAS taken responsibility for failures) is not going to get us anywhere except more and more bitter and confrontational, IMO. Lets sort it out, lets agree everyone shares some blame (including previous administrations for ALSO not doing anything about a KNOWN problem in NO) and be productive. But I have little hope for that.
JMO
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
I am with ya 100%. Thats what I have been saying for 2 weeks.. There are state and local govn'ts for a reason. And if their leaders don't lead or take it upon themselves to insure the safety of their citizens then whom is to blame. There is enough blame to go around here. Including all of the communication bumblings with FEMA. (They should not be under Homeland Security....too much to deal with IMO)
The Friday before the storm Geo Bush said......"get out"......then he signed a declaration of disaster........then he stated that everything was in place to insure that things would be in place for the Govnr when she called for help. I don't think she called for help until many people were dead and the rest were wanting out of the city. Like I said, I hope this changes the face of MANDATORY evacs. Each state IS responsible for their citizens. I hear the tornado sirens and we do what we have been taught to to do YEARS!! I don't wait for buses, cops,trains,boats etc. to come around and take me out. At some point we are resposible for ourselves too. "help those who help themselves". A good percentage of those people could have gotten in their cars and left the city on Friday (if the Mayor would had started the evac then) NOW....the state/local govn't should have gotten those buses and any other form of trasporation their emergency plans stated and started getting those people that were elderly, sick, etc.
The nursing home story is heart breaking. Many families were calling from out of town and asking them to get out their loved ones. The nurses were told not to. So they had to save themselves and their own families. The owners should be procecuted, they ultimately had the people in their care, just has the state and local govn't.
The hospital story with 40 dead will be interesting too. Thats a fine line.....they would have required boats to be removed. Some of those poor souls were probably not in the best shape in the first place, much less been able to withstand any power outages or evacuations.
oh, and I thought Bush did control the weather and wanted 1/2 the gulf coast to be wiped out. The crazy muslim radical was on the news yesterday praising Allah for it (Katrina) , so I guess he controls the weather too :notsure:
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Tell ya what. THAT guy I saw. I remember seeing him. He's on the front lines. Thanks for that article.
 
S

sinner's girl

Guest
I love how so many people can comment about something when they don't live there or know what's going on.
Off my soapbox.
I had the pleasure of being on the Carnival Valor when Katrina hit. I come home to plan the next one, only find the Conquest was moved and there is huge mass blocking the Port of New Orleans.
I cried when I found out about the animals at the aquarium. It's sad, so many had to die. I refuse to look at pictures, I don't want to know.
Should have, could have, would have...you don't really know unless you're there...
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
I love how so many people can comment about something when they don't live there or know what's going on.
..
You are correct...I lived there for 40 years and no all to well what the City and GUlf Coast Region lived in fear of this happeneing.
Even the comment regarding the Mayor staying in Baton Rouge is 100% inaccurate.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by lovethesea
I just saw a piece on the news that seemed disturbing. Why do I get the feeling that they are not confident that this levy is going to continue to hold? Could it be that they would get most of the water out just in time for the pressure to build back up again?
The levy systems and flood walls are designed to hold water out. They are not designed to hold pressure from the opposite side. There is still some concern as plenty water is currently exerting pressure from the opposite side on some of the flood walls.
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Even the comment regarding the Mayor staying in Baton Rouge is 100% inaccurate.

The mayor WAS in Baton Rouge on and off after the hurricane came through. Unless the TV station that he was standing in front of was incorrect and underneath the image was
"Mayor speaking from Baton Rouge" :notsure:
 
lovethesea

lovethesea

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sinner's Girl
Should have, could have, would have...you don't really know unless you're there...

We can say this for every state that has a body of water. Other states/cities seem to have a plan. The state/city failed to implement it. Wether its Texas, Miss, Ala, FL, Geo,
Carolinas etc.....we must learn from this. Drills must be played out. And not just on a computer with a hurrican named Pam. Katrina did almost exactly what "Pam" did on their computer model and things still failed. Hopefully sooner rather than later there will be an account of this from the time Bush said get out, until the troops came in and all were evacuated.
ST. Louis is going through something very typical of this disaster. We were told to ready ourselves for about 500 evacuees last weekend. After clearing an airport hanger and gettng cots, food, small cooking quarters, running water, showers lockers etc..
We were told that Friday they would be here, No wait....Saturday.....nope....Sunday, ummm.......Monday????? Shoot, we were just joking............as of last night, they weren't coming. A similar story played out on the other side of STL in the county. A minimum security jail was quickly changed over to house many people. They even took down the barbed wire. Sheets, towels, clothes, personal care item, even a small play area set up outside.
Typical red tape nightmare that you wonder if FEMA would be going through if they were out from under Homeland Security
 
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