I’m at an end, Please Help!!!

[fishrule]

Trying to build a Sump/Refuge TankI Tried to search the forums, but no luck.
I lost all but one of my fish in my 100g tank and after a lot of research on this forum and the internet I have decided I need to add a Sump/Refuge setup to my 100g tank in order to bring balance to my little piece of Tropical Fishy Heaven. ( More like fishy Hell at the moment)

So where do I begin? Has anyone else posted a highly detailed How-To or Sump/Refuge 101 or DIY?

<Please Read Below>
I have a nice 29g tall tank that I can use, but I’m not sure if it is too big or too small. I’m sure I can find all of the pieces to make the tank, but I don’t know exactly what all I will need, i.e. Glue types, special tools, material needed, etc.
I have a whole weekend ahead of me that I would like to spend building a sump/refuge setup, but still I have no Idea where to begin.
Also, what specific equipment such as, skimmers, pumps, filters, etc. will I need to purchase and build into the system?
I need to know the Cheapest way to make this system work. As in, you could get away with using ( This Cheap ) Pump and bypass using ( Way Expensive Shark Tank Thingy ) and always upgrade your setup when funds are available. Did I mention CHEAP?
I know I should be able to find most of this information on my own, but I’m becoming broke rather fast and my wife is about to ban me from continuing the hobby if I don’t get things running correctly soon. (Totally Serious)

Please someone, if you have the time, help me figure this out.

:help: :help: :help: :help: :help:

 

[jessecnc]

Have no fear, there is help out there!
These are the basic components for a sump: Return Pump, Protein Skimmer, Heater, baffles. That's it.
For the sump itself you'll need something to create baffles (acrylic, or plexiglass works great here. You can glue them in place using aquarium-safe silicone. There is a thread by Bigtyguyy on building a stand that has good pics of the sump/fuge he made. A quick visual will point you in the right direction.
As for your 29gal. this will work great. You can't have too big a sump. The more volume, the more stable your tank will be.
The biggest thing to consider is how you will get the water from the main tank to the sump. If your tank is not already drilled you may want to consider this. Otherwise you will need to get an overflow box. A search for this will provide a lot of info.
My advise is keep searching...there is SO much information available here! Oh, and do a search for "plumbing 101". This will shed some light on, well, a little bit of everything.
And just keep telling the wife how much you love her and how much SHE will enjoy the tank...works for me anyway, and I've just turned my living room into a lumber yard!
Jesse

 

[fishrule]

Ok,
I have found a few items that I think will work...
The first two pictures are of Overflow boxes. The black one supposedly handles 1400gph and the clear one handles 600gph. Will either of these work?

Not sure about the protein skimmers. The black box supposedly hangs on the back of the tank like the overflow and has a 320gph pump on it. Will that work or do I want the second type which is specifically for the Sump tank setup? Can I use the black one and skip one of the parts in the Sump setup or is it important that the protein skimmer be setup in the Sump tank?

Also, is there a return pump that is both quiet and cheap that I can buy? What type of pump should I be looking at for this step?

 

[fishrule]

Any impute on the equipment I have found?

Also, What type of lighting do I need for the refuge portion of the tank? Is there a heat safe light anyone knows about that I can use since this will be inside my stand? (I’m a firefighter so I get paranoid about these things)

 

[farmboy]

If you have more time than money, then you could start here:
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...t=plumbing+101
Get a cup of your favorite caffeinated beverage, though. It is pretty involved. Good luck!

 

[fishrule]

Originally Posted by Farmboy
If you have more time than money, then you could start here:
https://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/show...t=plumbing+101
Get a cup of your favorite caffeinated beverage, though. It is pretty involved. Good luck!
Heh, Actually I did go thru most of that yesterday... : )
Thats why I'm trying to see if some of the parts I have found will work for what I'm trying to accomplish. :notsure:
Also Can I use Plexiglass instead of regular glass or acrylic for the baffles?

 

[rhomer]

First off the skimmers your showing in those pics are not suited to your size tank. With 100 gallons your not going to get away with a cheap skimmer. You might look in the classifieds for a cheap pump. I think I saw a mag 12 in there which would be a good size pump for your return; otherwise, I would think a mag 9.5 would work.
Second, You can get simple rubbermaid containers to use as a sump and don't really need baffles to make this real easy and cheap. I have a 90 and just put a 20 gallon 10 dollar rubbermaid for my sump. I love it. It holds a lot of water and is easy to work with. You just need to have the water drop down low in the sump to prevent bubbles returning to the tank.
Third, you can look for a used overflow to save some serious money. Generally, these items can get upwards of $100. 600 gph isn't quite enough and 1400 is way too much. See if you can find something in between.
Fourth, don't chince on the skimmer. Right now everyone is recommending ASM skimmers, so I just bought one. It hasn't arrived yet so I can't speak for myself on that one. I would think a G2 would be enough size for you.
That is the minimum you can get away with. I'm pretty much indiffernt on a refuge. I think your best bet is to plan the sump that you will add the refuge later, but get this equip first and installed then later down the line work on the refuge design if you decide to go that direction.
Price breakdown on the cheap:
Skimmer (230 - 300)
Rubbermaid Sump (10 -25)
Return pump (60-80)
Overflow (25 - 100)
misc plumbing (30 - 50)
Rob

 

[masterzeus]

I have two of the overflows you posted above on my tank (55 gal) and my mom has one along with the skimmer on her tank (65 gal).
The overflows work great. I definitely recommend them over the U-tube kind as I have had problems with the U-tube ones causing floods.
I was extremely surprised at how well the skimmer worked. My mom's tank is only a mushroom/leather type tank and that skimmer pulls out thick, green, nasty stuff and needs to be emptied at least 2-3x a week (you can mod it to empty into a collection bottle if you don't want to do this so often). For the money, I don't think you can get a better skimmer. But, it is probably too small for your tank. I don't know if you can use two of them on one tank, but it would still be 1/3 the price of an ASM.

 

[unleashed]

where are you located in michigan if you need a better filter system I have a 2 month used proclear 125 wet/dry system for sale I used it for my 100 gal I recently sold .i will even include a mag7 return pump i paid over 300 for this set up in nov i ll take 150 for it all im near ann arbor it wont work on my 300 lol this includes over flow box all plumbing hardware all you have to do is put on your tank and turn on the pump its rated for 120 gal I have the exact same on my 125 agressive LMK if interested
ps dont mind the dirty water it was off for a week when i took this pic I didnt use it long enough to even get algae build up in it

 

[bob a.]

Originally Posted by rhomer
First off the skimmers your showing in those pics are not suited to your size tank. With 100 gallons your not going to get away with a cheap skimmer. You might look in the classifieds for a cheap pump. I think I saw a mag 12 in there which would be a good size pump for your return; otherwise, I would think a mag 9.5 would work.
Second, You can get simple rubbermaid containers to use as a sump and don't really need baffles to make this real easy and cheap. I have a 90 and just put a 20 gallon 10 dollar rubbermaid for my sump. I love it. It holds a lot of water and is easy to work with. You just need to have the water drop down low in the sump to prevent bubbles returning to the tank.
Third, you can look for a used overflow to save some serious money. Generally, these items can get upwards of $100. 600 gph isn't quite enough and 1400 is way too much. See if you can find something in between.
Fourth, don't chince on the skimmer. Right now everyone is recommending ASM skimmers, so I just bought one. It hasn't arrived yet so I can't speak for myself on that one. I would think a G2 would be enough size for you.
That is the minimum you can get away with. I'm pretty much indiffernt on a refuge. I think your best bet is to plan the sump that you will add the refuge later, but get this equip first and installed then later down the line work on the refuge design if you decide to go that direction.
Price breakdown on the cheap:
Skimmer (230 - 300)
Rubbermaid Sump (10 -25)
Return pump (60-80)
Overflow (25 - 100)
misc plumbing (30 - 50)
Rob

I think this guys advice is spot on. You dont say for sure what is going on with the tank, what you are currently using for filtration, where you are getting your water from, so without some more basic info, its hard to say that a refugium/sump will cure all your ills.
How much live rock is in the tank, how old is the setup, what are the water parameters looking like (ammonia, nitratite, nitrates, etc). Do you use ro water? These are the basics that you need to know about and then when all that is squared away, then look at what putting in a sump will do for you.
This is not a cheap hobby. Some things you can get away with but others like a good skimmer and lighting are going to cost some money. Unless you like going to the store and paying alot of money, an RO unit will be a big help. Plumbing in everything isnt that bad, you can do pretty well going to one of the big box stores like Home depot or Lowes and pick up pvc pipe, acrylic, silicone for building a refugium, etc. I have always been into home repair and improvement so this stuff is second nature to me, but I know that other folks havent done it, so you are doing good asking questions. Hopefully your wife is enjoying the hobby with you, it makes it much easier in the long run. Good Luck.

 

[fishrule]

Originally Posted by unleashed
where are you located in michigan if you need a better filter system I have a 2 month used proclear 125 wet/dry system for sale I used it for my 100 gal I recently sold .i will even include a mag7 return pump i paid over 300 for this set up in nov i ll take 150 for it all im near ann arbor it wont work on my 300 lol this includes over flow box all plumbing hardware all you have to do is put on your tank and turn on the pump its rated for 120 gal I have the exact same on my 125 agressive LMK if interested
ps dont mind the dirty water it was off for a week when i took this pic I didnt use it long enough to even get algae build up in it
I'm actually way north from you, in Traverse City...
I'm going to keep this setup in mind... (Have to talk to Wife)

As for my tank inhabitants and parameters:
Tank Size = 100gallons
LR = 50lbs Getting another 50 Very soon...
Tank Life = 6.5 months
Filters and Powerheads:
Both are Marineland products.
1 Penguin Bio-Wheel 350 Filter (Might buy a second one if it will help)
2 Penguin Power Head 1140's (300gph each)
Water Quality:
PH = 8.2
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20 (Yes this is a little high, but was only 5-10 when fish dying)
SG = 1.023
Temp between 79-81
Fish:
Lawnmower and Hippo were dead before all the other fish were in the tank at the same time. So I never had more than 5 fish inhabitants at a time and they were all only 1"-1.5" long except for the trigger who was about 2" long.
1 Yellow-Tailed Blue Damsel (Still alive and well)
1 Niger Trigger (Not sure why he died)
2 Percula Clown (Died of Possible Ick - (Ick like symptoms))
1 Lawnmower Blenny (Not sure why he died (Plenty of Hair Alge))
1 Green Mandarin Dragonet (Starved to death- (Big Noob Mistake))
1 Blue Hippo Tang (Got sucked into a powerhead filter and died (Accident))
Inverts: (All still alive and well)
2 Purple Urchins
1 Royal (Tuxedo) Urchin
1 Brittle Starfish
2 Porcelain Crabs
4 Hermit Crabs (1 is Scarlet)
1 Cleaner Shrimp
2 Snails

 

[unleashed]

yeh you are bit north of me .you have the 6 ft tank? well if shes interstd let me know I also have a coralife 6 ft pc light fixture for sale too i had 2 6 ft tanks set up sold one tank so I ended up with duplicated equipment one set used 2 months other set used 6 mo.so if you need either and end up down my way let me know 6 mo old unit is 200. the 2 mo old is 300.

 

[unleashed]

your tank might not have been astablished long enough for some of the species that died.as for the bio wheel filter it might not have been enough to cope with your system.not my fav brand I will admit a for that damsel you have darn near drop kick them fish lol

 

[fishrule]

Originally Posted by unleashed
your tank might not have been astablished long enough for some of the species that died.as for the bio wheel filter it might not have been enough to cope with your system.not my fav brand I will admit a for that damsel you have darn near drop kick them fish lol
Yeah I think you are correct about the filter... I went with what my LFS suggested to use...
The Damsel is tough, but still not completely sure why others died. You are probably right about tank not setup long enough, however it was running for almost 4 months when I put my first fish in it.
I have the 4' version, only wish I had 6'. Could get more in a 6' tank. The tank was free from a friend... All I had to do was remove it from his house on my own...

 

[rhomer]

One glaring issue is that you don't have enough water movement. Two powerheads for 100 gallon tank. That isn't enough. I have a 90 and have 3 powerheads total of 1000 gph, a closed loop mag 5, and my mag 9.5 as a return for a total of 2050 gph for my 90.
I'm not saying that you need that much but it's possible your fish are suffocating.
Rob

 

[rhomer]

Originally Posted by FishRule
Yeah I think you are correct about the filter... I went with what my LFS suggested to use...
The Damsel is tough, but still not completely sure why others died. You are probably right about tank not setup long enough, however it was running for almost 4 months when I put my first fish in it.
I have the 4' version, only wish I had 6'. Could get more in a 6' tank. The tank was free from a friend... All I had to do was remove it from his house on my own...

I would also agree that your tank was too young for the hippo and mandarin. You also stocked too much too quick. Looks like the LFS is giving you some really bad advice.

 

[fishrule]

Originally Posted by rhomer
One glaring issue is that you don't have enough water movement. Two powerheads for 100 gallon tank. That isn't enough. I have a 90 and have 3 powerheads total of 1000 gph, a closed loop mag 5, and my mag 9.5 as a return for a total of 2050 gph for my 90.
I'm not saying that you need that much but it's possible your fish are suffocating.
Rob
You could be correct. I'm still learning a bunch about this hobby...
I guess my next question is: Do I really need a Sump at all or can I get away with more filters and more water flow? Will I still need a protein skimmer? What all do I really need to make my 100g a safe place for fish, inverts, and coral?

Unleashed: Does your setup for $150.00 come with a protein skimmer?

 

[fishrule]

Originally Posted by rhomer
I would also agree that your tank was too young for the hippo and mandarin. You also stocked too much too quick. Looks like the LFS is giving you some really bad advice.
Yes, I’m learning this real fast...

 

[unleashed]

I have the 4' version, only wish I had 6'. Could get more in a 6' tank. The tank was free from a friend... All I had to do was remove it from his house on my own...
cant beat that deal

 

[unleashed]

Originally Posted by FishRule
You could be correct. I'm still learning a bunch about this hobby...
I guess my next question is: Do I really need a Sump at all or can I get away with more filters and more water flow? Will I still need a protein skimmer? What all do I really need to make my 100g a safe place for fish, inverts, and coral?

Unleashed: Does your setup for $150.00 come with a protein skimmer?
no skimmer but it dos have a mag 7 return pump its a drill wet dry so you can use a skimmer inside the sump area and have the return pump exterenal.it will be a complet unit dual overflow box with 2 1 inch downtubes return pump and tubing the overflow box alone cost 45 bucks to purchase separatly. at most LFS also has a life time garentee on the system (does not warentee the pump).as for the skimmer .your tank is too new for reef set up yet I wouldnt suggest trying corals of any type until you get everything else surviving for a while.a skimmer is handy to have but not essenial for the survival of fish or inverts