I don't need no filter !!!

just fishings

just fishings

Member
I have a 75gal tank with everything from xinea and mushrooms to clams and frog spawn.
Ol ya, plus the fish and dragons...you know! :happyfish
Now let me tell you what to do!!........

We are all on here talking about NATURAL, NATURAL, NATURAL. If you ask someone what the best thing to do is...lighting, filtering, sizing it's all the same. What would they be getting in nature. We all want the best looking tank at the most affordable price; no matter how much money we have or how big our tank is. We also want something we can sit back and put things in with confidence they will not only live but grow..........without all the work!
:thinking: :thinking: :thinking:

What would make a filterless system. We have the skimmer replacating the oceans waves, the strongest lights compeating with the sun, powerheads to move like the oceans tide. Then we throw a ton of pads in a tank and call it a filter?
We use our knowledge to make devices that repicate a natural movement. This my sound crazy and maybe even un-do-able. We put these little 2,3,10gal refugiums on our tanks and call it a help. I have just added a refugium to one of my tanks and I can see in a week healthier corals, fish, and better control of my water. We don't mind going out and buying a $100 worth of chemicals to make the water do what we want...ph's up-down...nitrate reducers...alge eliminaters....don't let me get into trace elemments; what about an extra few bucks up front and leave it natural. We as humans would die without trees and vegitation...but we through a bunch of animals into a tank and shoot them up on "

[hr]
" so they feel "normal".

TAIR THIS THREAD UP WITH YOUR THOUGHS...TRY TO USE YOUR FACTS NOT YOUR "HEAR SAYS". WE ALL ARE HERE FOR ONE THING "A PIECE OF THE OCEAN" . ????'S - ANSWERS - PERSONAL HARD KNOCKS
*I want to know can you use a refugium as a natural filter system that TOTALLY makes a great tank?
*Has anyone ever tried??
*Would the size be fezzable???
*What plants/ animals would need to be in it to make it a well rounded system????
 
D

dragonzim

Active Member
There are plenty of people that have amazing tanks without adding any chemicals other than what comes in their salt and using only live rock for filtration.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
I dont dose my tank with anything. no chemicals. I run no filter pads. I do water changes I do use a protiuen skimmer because in my opinion they work. no tank is ever going to have the massive biological capabilities and diffusion rate of the ocean. but my tank is as natural as possible, technicly my tank has no filter, just a skimmer and natural nitrogen cycle, algaes and filter feeders, LR and good current.
 
tx reef

tx reef

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
I dont dose my tank with anything. no chemicals. I run no filter pads. I do water changes I do use a protiuen skimmer because in my opinion they work. no tank is ever going to have the massive biological capabilities and diffusion rate of the ocean. but my tank is as natural as possible, technicly my tank has no filter, just a skimmer and natural nitrogen cycle, algaes and filter feeders, LR and good current.

That is all fine and good if you do not have a heavily stocked SPS tank. I promise you will be setting up a calcium reactor, kalk. drip, or dosing to raise alk. and calcium.
Water changes alone would never be enogh to keep up with the calcium depand of my tank or anyone elses that has a lot of SPS.
On my tank I run a refugium with chaeto, a phosphate reactor, a protein skimmer, sand, rock, and lots of water flow. I also dose to maintain calcium and alkalinity (I do 10% water changes weekly and this no where near keeps up with the demands). I will be setting up a kalk drip in the next couple of weeks.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by TX Reef
That is all fine and good if you do not have a heavily stocked SPS tank. I promise you will be setting up a calcium reactor, kalk. drip, or dosing to raise alk. and calcium.
Water changes alone would never be enogh to keep up with the calcium depand of my tank or anyone elses that has a lot of SPS.
On my tank I run a refugium with chaeto, a phosphate reactor, a protein skimmer, sand, rock, and lots of water flow. I also dose to maintain calcium and alkalinity (I do 10% water changes weekly and this no where near keeps up with the demands). I will be setting up a kalk drip in the next couple of weeks.
I agree my system works for what I have, I definatly wasnt saying that my consumption rate was phenominal and water changes handle everything for every situation. I run a sump, with sand, clams, chaeto, and lighting. I do 10g one week and 20g water changes the next, so I must say my water change ratio is very high compared to your average hobbiests. I hope it didn't sound like I was saying my way was the best and only way, I was just telling what works for me right now, maybe I should have been a little more explicit on my entire system.
 
just fishings

just fishings

Member
From: TX Reef ***That is all fine and good if you do not have a heavily stocked SPS tank. I promise you will be setting up a calcium reactor, kalk. drip, or dosing to raise alk. and calcium. ***On my tank I run a refugium with chaeto
I know that depending on the "style" of tank you set up being one could do a few fish and ???? xenia say and would need pratically nothing but a little frozen food. Say loading down the tank with more calcium dependant corals would make the needs for that chemical go up! Therefor I not against some of the other manmade machines that do some of this for us. The main thing I am looking into is would you not be able to allow yourself to replecate the oceans natural "trash filter" by puting the right size refugium and plant/ animal load in it. With a VARIATY of plants and animals would it not bring back some of those natural traces? ***You said you have chaeto. I have hear so many people that have this and others that want it. I have not done any research on this why is it soooo wanted.
From: reefkprZ ***I do water changes I do use a protiuen skimmer because in my opinion they work. ***no tank is ever going to have the massive biological capabilities and diffusion rate of the ocean. but my tank is as natural as possible, technicly my tank has no filter, just a skimmer and natural nitrogen cycle, algaes and filter feeders, LR and good current.
I agree to the most a tank without a protien skimmer is a tank waiting to crash; unless there going to change water every other day and not have anything in it! It was made to replacate the oceans waves. Each wave crashing onto the sand brings toxions out of the ocean and dumps them there on the shore; while it picks up sand with broken down shells and rock content to put new trace elements back into it water.***You say no tank will ever have the oceans biological capabilities? I agree the ocean is the worlds "super cleaner" . It has always been said that "the bigger the tank you have the easier it is to maintain". I do know about that but it is cheaper to change the water to give the tank it's natural traces and take out toxions!!! Anyway wanted to through that in there. To the point no my home tank cannot do what the ocean does. Nor does a skimmer do what waves do; but size for size can you not compete with the ocean?
I am NOT trying to conflect with anyone. I love biulding new things and working on old ones. I want to learn off of this tread like everyone here does. WITHOUT A CHALLANGE THERE IS NO CHANGE! Is there other ways to keep your tank as natural as the ocean? every great thing made for the home tank is duplecating the ocean in some way. Maybe some other machine to help with this is needed; through you ideas out there!!!
 
earlybird

earlybird

Active Member
Chaeto is a macroalgae that removes phosphates and other bad pollutants from the water. It's best used in a refugium on a reverse lighting schedule to help reduce pH swings.
 
teen

teen

Active Member
i run a skimmer and carbon on my tank. i add kalk almost everynight, and some magnesium as needed. last water change i did was about 2 months ago, and before that was probablly 4 months before that. tank is a 30 gallon heavily stocked sps tank. ive also got 3 clams and some zoas in there.
i do do water changes more frequently in the summer because my boats in the water and i use NSW to do the water changes. but during the fall/water i rarely do them.
 
just fishings

just fishings

Member
Originally Posted by earlybird
Chaeto is a macroalgae that removes phosphates and other bad pollutants from the water. It's best used in a refugium on a reverse lighting schedule to help reduce pH swings.
***But does chaeto do a better job than other microalgies? :thinking: Do people think it is better looking? All the mircos live in tanks easy so there isn't any real hardy plant?
HAS ANYONE EVER RAN A SYSTEM STRATE OFF OF SMALL WATER EXCHANGE?
NO skimmers, sumps, chemicals, calcium reactors, nothing. Just a small drain hole leaching a small amount of water constantly with a top off?
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by just fishings
***But does chaeto do a better job than other microalgies? :thinking: Do people think it is better looking? All the mircos live in tanks easy so there isn't any real hardy plant?
Chaeto is preffered because it doesnt go sexual and mess up you whole tank, it also provides a great breeding ground for pods. there are many types of macros available but this is one of the most common.
 
squidd

squidd

Active Member
My thoughts of filtration...
Large (adaquate) quantity of Live Rock and SSB for Biological filtration (suface area for Bacteria)...High Flow , distributed through out the tank to keep deitrus suspended and removed from MT,promote gaseous exchange and maintain oxygen levels...a Large sump and LARGER Fuge with Macros for malnutrient removal through export (denitrification) and a Killer Skimmer to remove Mass quantities of DOCs (organics) prior to decomposition...
With a well balanced system, no other "filtration devices" (bioballs/biomedia/Pads) are necessary...Other than the ability to run Chemical Media (carbon or phosphate removers) from time to time, best done in a Fluidized bed (or converted canister) type system...
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
ummm. if your going to grow a coral that consumes nitrates should use shrooms they consume far more. xenia is actually one of the corals that are as close to photodependant as they get. the benifit of the amount of nitrate they consume is going to be very very low. though the sump will look cool with xenia there really wont be as much benifit for nitrate reduction as I think teen is assuming there will be. I think (teen) should research that a little more. but dont take my word for it. ask robert fenner or someone like that.
 
teen

teen

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefkprZ
why xenia?
im going bare bottom.
most shrooms wont survive in a BB sps tank.
 
teen

teen

Active Member
looks better imo
better environment for sps imo.
i can have an amazing amount of flow and no sand storm.
 
reefkprz

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by teen
looks better imo
better environment for sps imo.
i can have an amazing amount of flow and no sand storm.

gotcha!
 
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