I need help with low PH ASAP

flower

Well-Known Member
 
 

Hi,

I started Vodka dosing yesterday, today my PH is reading 7.8, nothing looks stressed, so that’s good. I have plenty of agitation on the surface of my tank. Since Alkalinity is fine, I think I need to increase the oxygen. What else can I do.

In the past I was told up the alk and it would stabilize the PH. Alkalinity is reading 9, the test kit says 7-12 is good so I’m in the middle. I have a wooden air stone I used in an air propelled skimmer, I have a hose and pump… should I use that? If not what can I do?

Today’s test results:

Ph 7.8
Calcium is also low..360
Nitrates 40
Nitrites 0
Phosphates 0
Ammonia 0
dkH 9 (161.1 ppm KH)
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
Calcium gets low, the corals use it up, I dose it once a week when it happens..It was low last week and I didn't want it to come up too fast so I dosed it then but it hasn't climbed much. calcium has nothing to do with the vodka dose that I know of, from what I have read.
 
The PH was at 8.0,day before yesterday, now it is 7.8 and I'm getting worried. Increased bacteria will use oxygen and yes vodka dosing will lower the oxygen...
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi, If I lower the water level, it will make the PHs splash and increase the agitation...should I do that?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
You could get that Display fuge going you've been talking about :) That would help mix water and air.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
 
No way..no money. I have enough cash for gas to go to work next week. I'm glad the fridge is stocked. LOL

I increased the agitation on my surface water. I was also using that nitrate remover before beginning the vodka. I upped my alk a little since it was 9 and could go to 12. It usually is at 11, I had not buffered the top off as I usually do because the vodka dosing info I had read, said the coral would not absorb as much as before, to stop buffering the top off water.

Also it is 91 outside today, the tank reads 82 where it was at 80. Oh I tried that wooden air stone..LOL..micobubbles everywhere, I removed it after 30 seconds.

I can still lower the water level and make it really splash, it cools the tank down too.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
Update:
I increased agitation with a #3 Koralia pointed at the surface, so I am talking major water movement, and stirred the sand, I have a sand sifter so its okay.. there are no hidden toxins in my sand.
 
I remembered an old trick a friend taught me once back when I first started keeping a saltwater tank. The PH was low and I wanted to know if I should buffer it, my friend told me to stir the sand and the PH will come right up, and it did.
 
So now my PH is reading 8.0 this is the safe zone at least. i want it at 8.2 / 8.3 I did buffer my top off so I have hope that as my water evaporates the buffered top off will raise it a little. I'll check in the morning, with the extra movement the water level should drop and the ATO kick on with the buffered water.
 
If anyone has any better ideas..let me know. The vodka dose is 0.3, I think I will add half that much even though it is only the 3rd dose in the morning. The skimmer is already pulling out brown yuck and it's possible the Nitrate reducer I was using before has allot to do with things going off.
 
I will watch the tank closly and putting together a water change, a nice big 37g one.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Your PH has nothing to do with Oxygen content, the issue is excess Carbon dioxide from the increased bacteria. Make sure your skimmer is operating at peak efficiency. Any little clogs or accumulated slime will decrease the CO2 exchange.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
Thanks.
 
I was readng up on why PH drops and everything said oxygen and the stuff I havebeen reading on carbon dosing said to watch the PH because the bacteria builds up and sufficates the tank...so thats the route I took
 
I will go and double triple check the skimmer, it is putting out foam and brown yuck...I will clean the cup an check to make sure no clogs. Should I ower the vodka dose? Right now it is 13 drops (0.3ml) in a 90g tank.
 

posiden

Active Member
Yea, I agree.
Your driving the bacteria nutty with the carbon source. That in turn will lower your PH due to the fact that bacteria is acidic. Strong protein skimming is key to carbon source dosing. You need to remove the bacteria from the water column as well as provide ample source of O2.
 
I know you know this. Your way to smart to let this get you.
 
What kind of air pump and skimmer do you have?
 
 
Edit;
Oh yea, lowering the dose........Do you see any white build up?
 

bang guy

Moderator
I'm just curious where you read about Oxygen affecting PH. I don't have such a closed mind that I'd say they are wrong but I would be surprised if removing O2 from water causes the PH to drop.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
 
The information came from Reefkeeping on line magazine. I admit I put 2 + 2 together to come up with the idea that my low PH was because of the vodka dosing.
 
As I understand it, and I am not all that smart so I could be wrong, but when the following article says low O2 it means low oxygen and isn't CO2 carbon dioxide..carbon combined with O2...So My line of thought was that if low PH was due to low oxygen and Vodka dosing can cause an excess of CO2, meaning that the carbon dosing would affect the oxygen level in the tank. Low oxygen = low PH
 
The following are from two articles the first is on vodka dosing and the second is from when I looked up causes of low PH.
 
Gas exchange. The increased bacterial biomass and growth will decrease your dissolved O2 levels in the water column. Too much vodka can result in a drastic decrease of O2 and can cause stress to your reef inhabitants, if not death
 
Then there is another article by the same magazine, when I looked up causes for low PH:
 
Causes of Low pH Problems:
As described above, low pH problems are those where the pH is below about 7.8. That is, where the daily pH low drops below 7.8 for any portion of the day. Of course, if the pH reaches a low value of pH 7.9, aquarists may still want to raise it, but the need is not so immediate. Several things can commonly result in low pH, and the solution to each of them is different. Finally, there's nothing to prevent a tank from having all of these problems simultaneously!
The first step in solving a low pH problem is to determine why it exists in the first place. Some possibilities include:
[*]
 
[*]
A calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactor (CaCO3/CO2 reactor) is in use on the aquarium.
The aquarium has low alkalinity.
The aquarium has more CO2 in it than the surrounding air due to inadequate aeration. Don't be fooled into thinking that an aquarium must have adequate aeration because its water is very turbulent. Equilibrating carbon dioxide is MUCH harder than simply providing adequate oxygen. There would be NO change in the pH between day and night if equilibration of carbon dioxide were perfect. Since most aquaria have lower pH during the night, they also are demonstrating less than complete aeration.
[*]
The aquarium has excess CO2 in it because the air in the home that it is being equilibrated with contains excess CO2.
[*]
The aquarium is still cycling, and has excess acid being produced from the nitrogen cycle and degradation of organics to CO2.
 
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Hi,
 
 
No white buildup at all, everything looks happy, the PH test read low. I am being very careful and watchful, maybe overly so. The skimmer is a Coralife 250 and whatever monster pump it came with. It is running and pulling out green slime, very dark and I am making sure it has constant foam, if it slows down at all I increase the flow until foam again accumulates. I also washed out the cup to make sure there was not too much build up. I also have 4 Koralia PHs running, three now pointed at the water surface. and a small one in the cave to make sure there are no dead spots.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posiden http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300690
Yea, I agree.
Your driving the bacteria nutty with the carbon source. That in turn will lower your PH due to the fact that bacteria is acidic. Strong protein skimming is key to carbon source dosing. You need to remove the bacteria from the water column as well as provide ample source of O2.
 
I know you know this. Your way to smart to let this get you.
 
What kind of air pump and skimmer do you have?
 
 
Edit;
Oh yea, lowering the dose........Do you see any white build up?
 

flower

Well-Known Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300811
 
Would not the addition of oxygen to the tank counteract the pH-lowering effects of carbon dioxide?
Hi,
 
 
 
 
 
another article
 
 
When pH fluctuates

The pH in your saltwater aquarium is affected by the carbon dioxide and fish waste. To much will cause the waters pH to drop. A quick fact is that during nitrogen cycle, acid is produced and alters the pH in your saltwater aquarium. It is always good to have a pH test kit in handy. This is important when monitoring the quality of your aquarium water. It is also pretty simple and easy to use. Try monitoring the pH and acid level every week to detect any changes.
When you experience a large drop in your pH level that will indicate theres an increase in carbon dioxide or the nitrogenous fish wastes. Two solutions could be to aerate the saltwater aqaurium or partial saltwater change. This will help in keeping the normal pH level.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300818
 
 
another article
 
 
When pH fluctuates

The pH in your saltwater aquarium is affected by the carbon dioxide and fish waste. To much will cause the waters pH to drop. A quick fact is that during nitrogen cycle, acid is produced and alters the pH in your saltwater aquarium. It is always good to have a pH test kit in handy. This is important when monitoring the quality of your aquarium water. It is also pretty simple and easy to use. Try monitoring the pH and acid level every week to detect any changes.
When you experience a large drop in your pH level that will indicate theres an increase in carbon dioxide or the nitrogenous fish wastes. Two solutions could be to aerate the saltwater aqaurium or partial saltwater change. This will help in keeping the normal pH level.
I don't see a single mention of Oxygen in that article.
 

posiden

Active Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300804
Hi,
 
 
No white buildup at all, everything looks happy, the PH test read low. I am being very careful and watchful, maybe overly so. The skimmer is a Coralife 250 and whatever monster pump it came with. It is running and pulling out green slime, very dark and I am making sure it has constant foam, if it slows down at all I increase the flow until foam again accumulates. I also washed out the cup to make sure there was not too much build up. I also have 4 Koralia PHs running, three now pointed at the water surface. and a small one in the cave to make sure there are no dead spots.
 
 
 
Hi,
 
So IMO you haven't overdosed the vodka yet. :) I would continue on your current path. Maybe stay at that dose for a while longer then the recommended time frame and see how things react. Again, I just think your seeing the direct affect of the larger bacteria population. Keep an eye on your top off water. That much movement on the surface is gonna increase the evap rate.
 
 
Out of interest. Why did you start dosing the vodka? Did I miss one of your threads?
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko http:///forum/thread/379619/i-need-help-with-low-ph-asap#post_3300811
 
Would not the addition of oxygen to the tank counteract the pH-lowering effects of carbon dioxide?
That's what I was thinking, excess CO2 is only excess if its more than the O2 I thought, so if you increase the O2 (by mixing water with air, surface aggitiation ect. then you don't have excess anymore.
At least that was always my mindset, I could be totally wrong.
I do know that PH goes up when you point the powerheads at the surface of the water which causes waves which cause more surface area on the water, which is where the water gets it's O2 from.
 
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