I need some advise on my DSB!!

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Rockman
http:///forum/post/2631291
Joe I have read a lot of your post and replies and i think your a very intelligent man who knows what he's talking about and I respect your opinions But to answer your last question - In a given volume of sand, the usable bacterial surface area rises rapidly as the average particle size decreases. For example, a cubical particle 1 mm on a side has 6 square mm of surface area, while the surface area on a particle that is one eighth (or 0.125) mm on a side is a total of 0.09375 square mm. However, in the volume of 1 cubic mm, there would be 512 of the smaller particles, for a total area of 48 square mm, eight times what is found on the larger cube.
The total sediment surface area in even a small tank is impressive, indeed. In a 45 gallon reef tank, the sand bed averages about 4 inches deep, by 12 inches wide, by 36 inches long, for a total of one cubic ft of sediment. I won't bore you with the calculations, but if the average particle size is one eighth mm, and that is a good average size to have, the total sand surface area is about 14,828 square feet or just slightly over 1/3 of an acre. A LOT of bacteria can live with that amount of space!
It seems you are using each individual grain of sand for your calculations. Just going on that I have to ask you do you believe that the smaller sand will pack together more tightly then the CC and if so the areas touching now reduce the total area for nitrifying bacteria to form on? Your tightly packed sand now becomes almost a solid (the reason sand sifting animals are added is to break up and add aeration to the sand. Again we are talking about a real life situation in our tanks. This packing effect is not as great in CC leaving a greater total surface area for nitrification to accrue. To further pack the sand any live rock we put in our tank adds to this effect, again in the CC this packing under the rock is not as great.
 

rockman

Member
I agree Joe That's the problem with any scientific approach my calculations do not take into account for the sand particles being compacted and in doing so the total usable area is greatly diminished! IMO True DSB's are better left to serious hobbyists -the ultimate challenge if you will. I have used CC off and on for ten years and still have it in one of my
tanks. and I don't have a DSB
Rockman
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by tdog7879
http:///forum/post/2630935
I already try to scoop out the CC and it went into the sand bed .Thats why i say there is only a then layer of it. I will try to remove a little bit more but i don't think i can get it all out. The snails i have are 4 olive snails and a dozen nassarius......Whats the best way to add the live sand? .....By the way my tank is 80 tall.
Add the LS by using a long piece of PVC pipe with a funnel on top. Direct the LS where you want if by moving the pipe. May have to remove some water from DT to flush sand down pipe. Should minimize the dispersment of sand particles in the water column.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Rockman
http:///forum/post/2631626
I agree Joe That's the problem with any scientific approach my calculations do not take into account for the sand particles being compacted and in doing so the total usable area is greatly diminished! IMO True DSB's are better left to serious hobbyists -the ultimate challenge if you will. I have used CC off and on for ten years and still have it in one of my
tanks. and I don't have a DSB
Rockman
My friend my tank is running with CC for almost seven years, when I set up this tank CC was the way to go. If I had my choice I would go with sugar sand now but I am not about to undertake the daunting task of changing over this late in the game And excuse my manners welcome to the boards, I personally like what you bring to the table, you remind me of Randy only much more diplomatic (Randy I know your reading this)
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2631754
Add the LS by using a long piece of PVC pipe with a funnel on top. Direct the LS where you want if by moving the pipe. May have to remove some water from DT to flush sand down pipe. Should minimize the dispersment of sand particles in the water column.
Randy you seem to link WATER and PIPE together quite often any particular reason
 

tdog7879

Member
sorry guys you are getting way to technical for me, Im just a beginer that made a mistake by putting a bunch of sand in my tank..All of you guys seem to no what your doing so here is my question.... is it going to be ok to leave the CC on top of the SB. Remember it is a thin layer? Also should i add some LS to the spots that are around the 3 inch mark? FL Joe, Scopus tang, Rockman.....Lets all agree and help me out! Please! Thanks
You gys should come together and open a fish store or write a book about Saltwater Tanks!!!!!!! $$$$$$$$
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Ok here is the deal IMO with CC the space between the CC is a home for detritus so you need to be diligent in your vacuuming of your substrate. If I were you I would try to incorporate the CC with your sand by gently mixing it thus giving you a mixed substrate try to get the CC below the surface.
As far as a book we three have in fact talked about it. The only thing we can agree on is the title.
THREE BLIND HOBBYISTS
This post is brought to you under the influence of a cocktail, dinner wine and a good port for desert. So it is subject to chance tomorrow
 

tdog7879

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2632287
Ok here is the deal IMO with CC the space between the CC is a home for detritus so you need to be diligent in your vacuuming of your substrate. If I were you I would try to incorporate the CC with your sand by gently mixing it thus giving you a mixed substrate try to get the CC below the surface.
As far as a book we three have in fact talked about it. The only thing we can agree on is the title.
THREE BLIND HOBBYISTS
This post is brought to you under the influence of a cocktail, dinner wine and a good port for desert. So it is subject to chance tomorrow
Thanks FL joe ....just need to get scopus and rockman opinion Hope the agree! .........What about adding the LS to the low spots.
 

rockman

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2632287
Ok here is the deal IMO with CC the space between the CC is a home for detritus so you need to be diligent in your vacuuming of your substrate. If I were you I would try to incorporate the CC with your sand by gently mixing it thus giving you a mixed substrate try to get the CC below the surface.
As far as a book we three have in fact talked about it. The only thing we can agree on is the title.
THREE BLIND HOBBYISTS
This post is brought to you under the influence of a cocktail, dinner wine and a good port for desert. So it is subject to chance tomorrow
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2632287
Ok here is the deal IMO with CC the space between the CC is a home for detritus so you need to be diligent in your vacuuming of your substrate. If I were you I would try to incorporate the CC with your sand by gently mixing it thus giving you a mixed substrate try to get the CC below the surface.
As far as a book we three have in fact talked about it. The only thing we can agree on is the title.
THREE BLIND HOBBYISTS
This post is brought to you under the influence of a cocktail, dinner wine and a good port for desert. So it is subject to chance tomorrow
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2632024
Randy you seem to link WATER and PIPE together quite often any particular reason

Whats the matter Joe, don't you like WATER and PIPE?

Originally Posted by florida joe

http:///forum/post/2632017
My friend my tank is running with CC for almost seven years, when I set up this tank CC was the way to go. If I had my choice I would go with sugar sand now but I am not about to undertake the daunting task of changing over this late in the game And excuse my manners welcome to the boards, I personally like what you bring to the table, you remind me of Randy only much more diplomatic (Randy I know your reading this)
Joe, are you trying to say that I'm undiplomatic? And here I was thinking about running for mayor ~ guess I'll have to cancel my plans
.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by tdog7879
http:///forum/post/2632302
Thanks FL joe ....just need to get scopus and rockman opinion Hope the agree! .........What about adding the LS to the low spots.
tdog, don't believe that gently stirring the cc into the sandbed is going to hurt anything. I would suggest that you be careful to not get too deep, stir only the top 2" of the bed, no deeper. I do think that you are going to find that it keeps making its way to the surface as the sandbed is turned, and I personally would just keep handpicking it out as it does. Eventually you will get it all. As for adding the LS, you already know my opinion on that. I think that you trying to remove the sand right now, would cause far more damage to your system, than continuing along the route you have begun.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2632017
My friend my tank is running with CC for almost seven years, when I set up this tank CC was the way to go. If I had my choice I would go with sugar sand now but I am not about to undertake the daunting task of changing over this late in the game And excuse my manners welcome to the boards, I personally like what you bring to the table, you remind me of Randy only much more diplomatic (Randy I know your reading this)
Joe, are you trying to say that I'm undiplomatic? And here I was thinking about running for mayor ~ guess I'll have to cancel my plans
.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2632983
Whats the matter Joe, don't you like WATER and PIPE?

Joe, are you trying to say that I'm undiplomatic? And here I was thinking about running for mayor ~ guess I'll have to cancel my plans
.
Didn’t I hear something about that mayor in California also liking water and pipe only I think his pipe was CRACKed
 

bang guy

Moderator
My first thought is that this particular sandbed has already failed once. It may be possible to fix it but it's going to be like trying to uncook an egg.
You mention earlier that it's Silica free sand, is it Calcium carbonate?
If it were me I would go through the effort of removing all of the sand and going with 1/2" of sand or CC. If you wish to go the DSB route you need to start with a quality sand and do it right all the way.
 

tdog7879

Member
Thanks for the advise everbody...I am going to try siphoning out the CC and add some LS.... Then im going to leave it alone and start focusing on some soft coral that i want to add to the tank...So im sure i am going to have alot more questions for you guys.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Good job

It's a plus to have the patience to ask for advice, listen and evaluate the replies, and make an informed decision tailored to your specific situation. If you always do this you'll go far in this hobby.
 
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