Ich come back

[molly05]

I have had an ich outbreak since Nov last year. I have been doing hypo the DT for more than 3 months. I always keep SG at 1.008-1.009 (11ppt). The ich was dropped off for a week or so then come back for couple days. Every time I saw the ich dropped off, I started to count. Not just enough to the second week, the ich came back. I am out of my patient now. I am planning to low the SG to 1.005 but I am afraid my fish will die. Do I do something wrong in the hypo process? Please help. I really appreciate for your input and time.

 

[beth]

What are you using to measure salinity?

 

[molly05]

Thank Beth. I am using the refractometer.

 

[molly05]

Can you help me out please?
Thanks

 

[lion_crazz]

What kind of fish are these?
If the hypo is really not working and you are doing it that long, that strain of ich may have adapted to the low salt levels. I definitely would not bring the salt to 1.005. I would use Cupramine before I lowered the SG that low.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
What kind of fish are these?
If the hypo is really not working and you are doing it that long, that strain of ich may have adapted to the low salt levels. I definitely would not bring the salt to 1.005. I would use Cupramine before I lowered the SG that low.
I agree, how have you been doing hypo? After that amount of time I think, as well as Lion_crazz that there are a strand of ich that has adjusted. Please let us know how you did this procedure. A parasite will evolve to adapt to its suroundings if given time.

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I agree, how have you been doing hypo? After that amount of time I think, as well as Lion_crazz that there are a strand of ich that has adjusted. Please let us know how you did this procedure. A parasite will evolve to adapt to its suroundings if given time.
I moved all LR to a trash can and started to low SG on 10/28. I replaced 20g tank water with 20g of RO water for every 12 hours. I repeated that 4 times and finished on 10/30. Finally, I adjusted SG to 1.009 on 10/31. My currently water parameters are:
sg 1.008 to 1.009 or 11 ppm
pH 8.23
am 0
trate 10
trite 0
phos 0.05ppm
cal 300
temp 78
water change 10g every two weeks
food: seaweed sheet, therm +A pellet, formula 1, brine shrimp, shrimp, clam soaked with selcon, zoe, vita chem, extreme garlic.
I have 5 fish in 110g tank:
1 sailfin tang,
1 pearscale butt
1 clown trigger
1 chromis
1 maroon
Once again, thank you very much for your time and advice.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by molly05
I moved all LR to a trash can and started to low SG on 10/28. I replaced 20g tank water with 20g of RO water for every 12 hours. I repeated that 4 times and finished on 10/30. Finally, I adjusted SG to 1.009 on 10/31. My currently water parameters are:
sg 1.008 to 1.009 or 11 ppm
pH 8.23
am 0
trate 10
trite 0
phos 0.05ppm
cal 300
temp 78
water change 10g every two weeks
food: seaweed sheet, therm +A pellet, formula 1, brine shrimp, shrimp, clam soaked with selcon, zoe, vita chem, extreme garlic.
I have 5 fish in 110g tank:
1 sailfin tang,
1 pearscale butt
1 clown trigger
1 chromis
1 maroon
Once again, thank you very much for your time and advice.
And ich still keeps coming back?

 

[lion_crazz]

If it continues to come back and you are 100% sure that the refractometer is calibrated properly, I would probably dose cupramine and be sure that I had a copper test kit. The only thing I would worry about is the butterfly with the copper.

 

[tankyou]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I can relate.
Your FW/SW ratio seems about correct. How did you calibrate your refractometer?
Assuming your calibration is correct, and if you want to tough out the hydro procedure, may I suggest that you lose the sailfin tang in one way or another. IMO tangs are nothing but ich vectors, 'twas a sailfin that got me started down this bumpy road.

 

[lion_crazz]

There is no reason to get rid of the tang. Many people have tangs without having ich.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Tankyou
Sorry to hear of your troubles, I can relate.
Your FW/SW ratio seems about correct. How did you calibrate your refractometer?
Assuming your calibration is correct, and if you want to tough out the hydro procedure, may I suggest that you lose the sailfin tang in one way or another. IMO tangs are nothing but ich vectors, 'twas a sailfin that got me started down this bumpy road.
Tangs are more susceptable because they are scaleless. This is very odd that hypo hasn't worked in all of this time. I am not sure I would treat the tang with copper either. Perhaps some lenghthly methylene blue baths with yet another tank to place them in? I am kind of stumped on this one. What do you think Lion_Crazz?

 

[tankyou]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
Many people have tangs without having ich.
True LC, and I defer to your superior knowledge, but thats kinda like saying there's a lot of mosquitos which don't harbor malaria. Surely seperating the tang couldn't hurt? Just acting on a hunch.

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
If it continues to come back and you are 100% sure that the refractometer is calibrated properly, I would probably dose cupramine and be sure that I had a copper test kit. The only thing I would worry about is the butterfly with the copper.
I used distilled water to calibrate and I am sure that I calibrated the refractometer properly. I compared the refractometer with the big glass hydrometer, they have the same number.
I believe the ich comes back because I see 1 or 2 white spots on the butterfly fin. The butterfly and the clown trigger scratch the body against the rock once in a while (2 or 3 times yesterday night).
I will buy cupramine and a copper test kit tomorrow. Is there any brand of a copper test kit you recommend? Is Seachem copper test kit good? If I dose cupramine, can I have corals and inverts after the treatment?

 

[lion_crazz]

The tang and butterfly are definitely sensitive to copper, and I really do hate using copper, but sometimes it is neccessary. Something needs to be done to rid them of ich.
Molly, copper will remain in your tank once the treatment is over. For this reason, the copper treatment needs to be done in a separate quarantine tank.
The SeaChem test kit works fine.

 

[molly05]

Originally Posted by lion_crazz
The tang and butterfly are definitely sensitive to copper, and I really do hate using copper, but sometimes it is neccessary. Something needs to be done to rid them of ich.
Molly, copper will remain in your tank once the treatment is over. For this reason, the copper treatment needs to be done in a separate quarantine tank.
The SeaChem test kit works fine.
I don't plan to have corals and inverts in this tank. Just asking. I have 30g reef tank already, so I will dose copper to this tank. How long do you think the ich will go away after I dose copper?
Thanks again and good night.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by molly05
I don't plan to have corals and inverts in this tank. Just asking. I have 30g reef tank already, so I will dose copper to this tank. How long do you think the ich will go away after I dose copper?
Thanks again and good night.
It is not just the corals, copper soaks into your substrate and will leech out later. Don't use copper in there. If you need to dose, put them in a bare bottomed tank that you never plan to have any inverts in.

 

[molly05]

I will find a rubbermaid to do the copper treatment, but I have some questions:
1. Is tang susceptible to copper?
2. How long does the copper treatment last?
3. Do I need to bring the SG back to normal before the copper treatment is performed?
4. If I use HOB filter from my 30g reef tank for the copper treatment, will my reef tank be OK for couple weeks without filter?
That all the questions I think of right now. If something come up I will ask.

 

[sepulatian]

Copper Treatment is highly effective when applied precisely and monitored closely. The drawbacks to copper, however, unlike hyposalinity, is that copper is a toxin---to both parasite, as well as your fish.
In this treatment, the hobbyist will use use [best choice] Cupramine which is manufactured by Seachem. You will also need a compatible copper test kit that will “work with” the copper. If you use Cupramine, then also select Seachem’s copper test kit.
You should always set up a hospital tank, never adding copper directly to your display. At all times, maintain therapeutic copper levels in the hospital, using the copper test kit daily. READ THE LABEL of your medication and follow the directions. Like hyposalinity, copper treatment requires precision. Not enough copper, and the treatment is ineffective. Too much copper, and the treatment could be lethal to your fish. Take care, be attentive.
The treatment course for copper is 3 weeks after you have attained therapeutic levels. Following treatment, you should leave your fish in the hospital tank for an additional week for observation.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by molly05
I will find a rubbermaid to do the copper treatment, but I have some questions:
1. Is tang susceptible to copper?
2. How long does the copper treatment last?
3. Do I need to bring the SG back to normal before the copper treatment is performed?
4. If I use HOB filter from my 30g reef tank for the copper treatment, will my reef tank be OK for couple weeks without filter?
That all the questions I think of right now. If something come up I will ask.
I would definately not use your reef filter for the tank that is being treated with the copper.