Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kylev http:///forum/thread/382558/ich-lymphocyctis-help-plz/20#post_3346701
thanks tangs rule. I do think I'll run carbon in the tank and if I have a need to medicate I will just remove it at that point, because I'll be doing hypo over copper so the carbon could stay in for that treatment. I'm also kind of confused when you say you use fresh salt water and wait a week before adding any fish. Wouldn't this be an unsufficient amount of time for the new water to cycle and stabilize? Do you take some sort of filter media from the DT sump to help the process?
1st, I've no experience running copper compounds with any carbon in the QT system and advise against it. Copper levels must remain very constant for effective parasite control. Carbon tends to remove it causing fluctuation, which is not good for the fish and can help the parasites.. Copper is only effective on parasites and is no help for bacterial/viral/fungal issues. Copper levels must stay within the "kill" range for the parasites and below the toxic levels of the fish.... Copper also comes in 2 "styles"... Chelated copper sulfate - like "Mardel CopperSafe". And a non-chelated or Buffered type such as "Cupramine". I've had better luck with Mardel Coppersafe and it requires a concentration in the Q tank of 1.5 ppm to 2.0ppm. In very severe parasitic infestations I've gone to 2.5ppm and approached 3.0 - but these levels can only be maintained for a couple or 3 days and then must come back to normal levels. CopperSafe concentrations above 4.0ppm are usually fatal to fishes within 48 hours. You also need a good "chelated or Total copper test kit", I can link you to one via PM. just ask. With ANY copper-based anti-parasitic it does slowly poison the fish too, and can only be used for 4 or 5 weeks consecutive. Longer than that and internal damages begin to harm the fish and survival rates go down if u gotta use copper beyond 5 weeks. But some parasites (like marine velvet) can kill within days and left untreated have a VERY high kill rate of the host fish. Marine velvet is much more potent than Ich and will spread fish to fish and over 2 weeks and can easily wipe out all fish in a DT. It is best to identify that if a fish has a parasitic disease which one. Hypo seems like an effective treatment usually for ich, but will have NO effect on velvet. Velvet can survive salinity down to 3ppt and up to 45ppt and most fish wont survive that wide a margin. Copper is effective on ich and velvet, dosing requirements are the same for either parasite.
Warrning: Cupramine and CopperSafe have 2 totally different dosing requirements cause threy're 2 diffferent chemicals!!! So get used to one or the other and never switch over......(I lost a helathy/eating in quarentene, moorish idol & a tang many years ago cause I grabbed the Cupramine and used it to the more familiar Coppersafe dosing rate. Everything in the QT was dead in 3 hours) It's best to get familiar with one brand or another and never mix/match...
It is also required to test your QT copper levels - daily at first to see how they trend, and after each water change Cause you must add back in the right ammount of coper meds to replace what came out. (pretty easy, CopperSafe treats at 5ml per 4 gal, so if u pull 8 gal out, add back in 10 ml coppersafe). Once you know after a week or so that copper levels don't fall off unless there's a waterchange, then only test after w/c...
Hypo with copper works well, cause lower salt levels are easier on the fishes system. I'll usually run a 1.012, and let the copper kill parasites. I dont like going lower cause it is so hard and takes long to RAISE salt back up. Going UP with salt is really hard on the little quys.... I've also experimented with copper&hypo&formalin combined, but that's a different discussion.
As to your question, you really never delevop a good nitrogen cycle in a medicated QT. Copper would kill off most the bacteria that breakdown ammonia & nitrite. That's why waterchanges are needed every 2-3 days in a QT... The week of stabilizing I mentioned earlier is to ensure temp stable/ph stable gives me time to tweek temp/ph. Give me a week to get a Q tank up&runnin with filter/light/powerhead/heater/etc. and STABLE and ready for fish. I don't rush things much anymore, cause mistakes made in a hasty decision could cost a fish it's life. (like i run out of coppersafe and the fish store is out too, so I bought Cupramine - totally spaced after reading the direcntions and dosed it wrong) I've not had a fish QT running for 3 or 4 years and gotta get it up&running to make sure nothing craps out equip wise too....
And no, I do not use anything from a DT to help setup a QT.....NEVER use any rock/sand/gravel from the DT for 2 reasons:
1. It will absorb the copper just like carbon will and give u unstable copper levels and
2. once copper absorbed, rock/sand/gravel can leach copper back into your DT if you were to put ANY substrate/rock back into DT after being in a copper medicated QT. Then even copper levels in the ppb range will start killing of clean up crew members like stars.
Nothing but glass coffee cups&big PVC ends for QT fish tank decor/shelter for them....and again, no use trying to establish "cycle" or nitrifying bacteria from DT in a QT, as the copper levels needed to kill parasites wipes out the bacterium too.
Hope this helps
