ick questions

d808

d808

New Member
Hi All,
I have a question regarding ick. I have had an outbreak of ich in my tank that happened about 4 weeks ago when I added a 2" threadfin butterfly and 3" Moorish idol both caught from the ocean. After I added both fish they each had a few spots of ick (2-4 spots ea). A few days later my yellow tang had a few. I didn't do any treatments just added some stress zyme and the ick dissappeared a few days later. 2 weeks ago I added a juvi imperator angel and he caused another outbreak affecting the same fish as well as the imperator, but worse. I added stress zyme again and the ick seemed to be reduced the next day. Yesterday I did a water change and added stress coat. As of this morning no fish have ick (but the imperator is blochy I suppose from the ick cysts). My tank is now stocked and I will not be adding anymore fish. All fish seem happy and eating swimming around, except for the potters angel, but he's always grazing and never really was a heavy eater(few pellets a feeding).
My question is do I need to do anything else? Is the ick gonna come back?
P.S. I don't have a quarantine tank and it's a fowlr tank
 
d808

d808

New Member
Hi Beth
Thank you for all of your expertise in helping me with my ick problems. I know you are the go to person. I have read your thread before and understand that the ick is still in my tank, but if it is not affecting my fish should I worry and do a hyposalinity treatment just to rid my tank of ick or is it ok as long as the fish don't get affected?
again thank you for your knowledge
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You will always have this problem unless you do something about it. And if the fish get stressed for whatever reason, then you will have a serious problem because the parasite takes advantage of stressed fish.
The only way to avoid the problem is to QT all new incoming fish. Whether you decide to do something immediately or wait and see, is a decision you will need to make, however, the odds are against you.
 
meowzer

meowzer

Moderator
Just out of curiosity...what if you only have one tank with both fish, lr, ls, and a few corals...how would you treat that?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
I agree with Beth here. You are seeing ich's natural life cycle. Stress Zyme does absolutely nothing against ich. It is cultured bacteria in a bottle. It doesn't even work well with cycling a tank. It's main purpose is to cycle a tank quicker, which has not even a little to do with parasites. They are apples and onions. One has nothing to do with the other unless we are talking about water quality. Do you have a QT tank? What survivors are left? What all is in your DT? What size is the DT?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/2839931
Just out of curiosity...what if you only have one tank with both fish, lr, ls, and a few corals...how would you treat that?
You would have a QT to begin with. If not then you would have to pull the fish out, treat them with hyposalinity, while the display is left fallow.
 
d808

d808

New Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2839936
I agree with Beth here. You are seeing ich's natural life cycle. Stress Zyme does absolutely nothing against ich. It is cultured bacteria in a bottle. It doesn't even work well with cycling a tank. It's main purpose is to cycle a tank quicker, which has not even a little to do with parasites. They are apples and onions. One has nothing to do with the other unless we are talking about water quality. Do you have a QT tank? What survivors are left? What all is in your DT? What size is the DT?
Right now I have had no loss ever in my tank. All fish are well and healthy. I don't have a qt tank. The tank has been set up for 3 months and I have done regular water changes and test come out zero for everything.
My DT is a 150 and I have:
3 green chromis (used to cycle the tank)
5 false percula clowns (used to cycle the tank)
1 morish Idol
1 Threadfin butterfly
1 blue angel
1 potters angel
1 juvi imperator angel
1 yellow tang
live sand and live rock
wet/dry
skimmer
uv sterilizer
chiller
All my fish are really good today eating well... nice and fat, swimming around. no fighting.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have anymore outbreaks... and i Know beth is right that the odds are against me. I just don't want to stress the fish by moving them into a new qt tank. I have a 30 gal tank that i shut down when i set up the 150 so I could set that up as my qt. It has a wet/dry.
Please let me know if you think i should just go ahead and move them into the qt and start the hypo or should I just wait it out and see if they get infected again?
Mahalos!!!
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
I noticed almost on every comment related to ich that stress can lead to ich on fish. My question is, if you have a fish that gets stressed when moved from one tank to another (exp. when the fish is brought from from the store to the house tank) how do you keep the fish from not gettnig stressed out when moving it from the QT to the show tank? Would that create enough stress that the fish would get ich anyways?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2840176
Right now I have had no loss ever in my tank. All fish are well and healthy. I don't have a qt tank. The tank has been set up for 3 months and I have done regular water changes and test come out zero for everything.
My DT is a 150 and I have:
3 green chromis (used to cycle the tank)
5 false percula clowns (used to cycle the tank)
1 morish Idol
1 Threadfin butterfly
1 blue angel
1 potters angel
1 juvi imperator angel
1 yellow tang
live sand and live rock
wet/dry
skimmer
uv sterilizer
chiller
All my fish are really good today eating well... nice and fat, swimming around. no fighting.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have anymore outbreaks... and i Know beth is right that the odds are against me. I just don't want to stress the fish by moving them into a new qt tank. I have a 30 gal tank that i shut down when i set up the 150 so I could set that up as my qt. It has a wet/dry.
Please let me know if you think i should just go ahead and move them into the qt and start the hypo or should I just wait it out and see if they get infected again?
Mahalos!!!
That is entirely up to you. If they all look healthy and you would rather not move them, then don't. Fish can live with ich as long as their immune system is high. The problem happens when one fish falls ill. Ich then attaches, feeds, and reproduces by the hundreds. Ich can quickly and easily reach plague proportions in no time. If you are not going to treat them then pick up some cleaner shrimp and/or some cleaner gobies. They will help control the population of ich as long as there isn't a population explosion of parasites in the tank. Think about what you would do then, and be prepared. Have a cycled QT ready. There is nothing worse than trying to treat sick fish in a tank that is not cycled. It is often the tank fluctuations and ammonia spikes that kill the fish, not the parasites.
Originally Posted by locoyo386
http:///forum/post/2840179
I noticed almost on every comment related to ich that stress can lead to ich on fish. My question is, if you have a fish that gets stressed when moved from one tank to another (exp. when the fish is brought from from the store to the house tank) how do you keep the fish from not gettnig stressed out when moving it from the QT to the show tank? Would that create enough stress that the fish would get ich anyways?
Ich is a parasite and MUST be introduced into the tank. Ich does not come from stress. That is a common misconception. Stress does, however, play a roll. A healthy fish has a strong immune system and a thick slime coat. They can fight off parasites. Some will still attach but most won't be able to feed long enough to then be able to reproduce. If a fish becomes stressed, and parasites are present, then the fish will not be able to fight off the parasites. Their slime coat thins allowing ich to attach and feed. Each parasite that is able to fully feed then reproduces by the hundreds. All of these parasites attacking your healthy fish will wear on their immune system. Now more parasites are able to feed and reproduce.
I hope that this helped you to understand ich a little better. Beth has an excellent FAQ called Common Treatments located at the top of this forum. Read through it. She explains all about ich and it's life cycle.
 
d808

d808

New Member
COOL! Thanks Sepulatian. I will set up my qt tank and get it cycled just incase. Thanks for all the help. I just want to keep my fish alive!!! I've become very attached to them and would be sad if I lost one.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
You could leave your fish in the display for treatment with hypo, and move your LR and any inverts (no corals) into a temporary holding consisting of a large rubbermaid, heater and pumps for circulation.
 
gmann1139

gmann1139

Active Member
Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2839740
4 weeks ago when I added a 2" threadfin butterfly and 3" Moorish idol both caught from the ocean.

Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2839740
2 weeks ago I added a juvi imperator angel
Based on your stocklist, it looks like you've almost doubled the bioload of your tank within the last month.
Keep very, very close watch on your NH4 and NO2. It can take a couple weeks to creep up, and then BAM!, you have to deal with a spike, which stresses your fish, which can then cause the ich to reinfect your fish.
 
d808

d808

New Member
Originally Posted by gmann1139
http:///forum/post/2840823
Based on your stocklist, it looks like you've almost doubled the bioload of your tank within the last month.
Keep very, very close watch on your NH4 and NO2. It can take a couple weeks to creep up, and then BAM!, you have to deal with a spike, which stresses your fish, which can then cause the ich to reinfect your fish.
I've been testing my water every other day just to make sure it's okay. I'm ready if need be to do a water change. I'm so scared... i'm afraid i've gotten in alittle over my head. I really don't want to lose any fish. I've just done a water change so hopefully i'm ok for the next week.
Thanks for the warning.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2841136
I've been testing my water every other day just to make sure it's okay. I'm ready if need be to do a water change. I'm so scared... i'm afraid i've gotten in alittle over my head. I really don't want to lose any fish. I've just done a water change so hopefully i'm ok for the next week.
Thanks for the warning.
Well, you have gotten in over your had a bit. Morish idols are very hard to keep. We cannot replicate their natural diet because no one knows for sure what they thrive on. You got him from the ocean so he has never been introduce to prepared foods. He may accept some but it is not going to be the nutrition that he needs.
 
d808

d808

New Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2841182
Well, you have gotten in over your had a bit. Morish idols are very hard to keep. We cannot replicate their natural diet because no one knows for sure what they thrive on. You got him from the ocean so he has never been introduce to prepared foods. He may accept some but it is not going to be the nutrition that he needs.
He was a bit picky in the begining, but now he's been eating well. He pretty much eats everything I feed including pellets and flakes. I made my own food and added vitamins and zoecon. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I had one years ago that was eating well and found him dead for no apparent reason 6 months later. I've read online that there has been some success when you feed them New Spectrum pellets. I have 3 different types of new spectrum and he eats them all. If he starts to deteriorate i'm just gonna release him back into the ocean.
I tested my water today and everything is in check.
ph 8.2 everthing else zero.
If the NO2 nitrates go up is the only option a water change?
thanks!
 
gmann1139

gmann1139

Active Member
Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2841922
I had one years ago that was eating well and found him dead for no apparent reason 6 months later.
I hate to say it, but that sounds about right. As Sep said, Idols natural diet is unknown, so we can't guarantee they get the nutrition they need.
Originally Posted by D808
http:///forum/post/2841922
If the NO2 nitrates go up is the only option a water change?
NO2 = NitrIte
NO3 = NitrAte
Nitrites and Ammonia can be reduced with Amquel as well, but its a last-ditch, emergency situation, not a long-term one.
 
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