Idea to save money?

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by jarvis
Originally posted by beaslbob
So will lights, just that sunlight is cheaper.
LOL Reminds me of Reef keeping mags April fools edition tank of the month.
Jarvis: no joke. One of the first saltwater articles I read back in the 70's described the author's first successful salt tank in the 50's. He set it up near a south facing window and in fustration just cleaned the algae off the viewing side of the tank. Because of the algae on the other sides, the tank was successful.

 

[bwmichael21]

besides more water what would you additional costs be with respect to the 55 ?

 

[curtis12282]

Originally posted by beaslbob
understand. so do a mini with some macro/marine plants. and use the 55 for a freshwater tank
But I want to try my hand at reef/coral. And I dispise freshwater it has never intrested me in the least.

 

[reefnut]

Ok, let me restate this... Salt WILL breakdown concrete. That is just not workable. Not to mention the impurities that would be introduced by using it.

 

[curtis12282]

Originally posted by

michael21
besides more water what would you additional costs be with respect to the 55 ?
The biggest additional cost would be lighting for coral. And because im on such a tight budget it would take be a VERY LONG time to save the cash to get the lighting i desire.

 

[bwmichael21]

.... ? not sure what that means
Look, you want to setup a 10 gal marine tank and as time goes on if you like it upgrade ? Forget freshwater not anywhere as interesting. Why don't you just use what you have LR and LS in one part of the 55 gal. You can keep everything in one end. Place your corals higher up in the water column so you don't need a new lighting system. Many corals like soft polyps, mushrooms, even tube anemone's can be kept without an intense lighting system. If you like what you have slowly build up the rest of the tank, you shouldn't put everything in a tank right away regardless if you have the money or not. I have a 60 gal hex that i've been building up for the past year and a half. These things take time.

 

[curtis12282]

Originally posted by tangsfornuttin
Curtis
I think your idea to use the 10 gallon as the main tank and the 55 as the sump is brilliant. Pure genius. Don't skimp on lights, use 20 of your 30 lbs of LR in the 10 gallon, put the rest in the sump. Don't put more than 1 or 2 fish in the tank.
I think your idea is a perfect way to get the added stability of a larger system whilst having the lower cost, and novelty of a nano tank.
Bravo...

Thank you very much! I did a search and found a pic of your tank tangsfornuttin and I must say it’s quite the compliment coming for someone with such a well established tank. I’ve decided that I’m going to go ahead and use the 55 as my sump and use my 10 as a display. Thanks for everyone’s input.

 

[jarvis]

Originally posted by beaslbob
Jarvis: no joke. One of the first saltwater articles I read back in the 70's described the author's first successful salt tank in the 50's. He set it up near a south facing window and in fustration just cleaned the algae off the viewing side of the tank. Because of the algae on the other sides, the tank was successful.
Bob, Bob, Bob. I love your unconventental abstract veiws on reef keeping. Its like cops and robbers. I am not saying a natral light in an aqaurium doesnt have any substance as far as PAR, but I just belive the goal of maintaining a thriving reef is to have a beutiful controled ecosystem not overran by macros, and micro algeas. Also heat and temp flux is going come with sunlight. I personaly like new guest that come to my place to go ooohhh and ahhhh vs eeeeerrrrr and yuck.

 

[birdy]

I just wanted to add that I think it is a fine idea also, I would use part of the 55gal sump as a refugium, virtually no cost involved to do this (cheap NO lights, get someone to give you macro).
Reef nut- Look up agrocrete on an internet search, this is Baserock made out of concrete and oystershells, I plan on using this when I build my 200gal.

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by Birdy
Reef nut- Look up agrocrete on an internet search, this is Baserock made out of concrete and oystershells, I plan on using this when I build my 200gal.
What is the secret that stops it from breaking down?

 

[marvida]

I'm sooooooooooooo confused
To answer the original question, I agree with Birdy and Tangs. Using a 55 gal sump on a ten gallon would eliminate a lot of maintainence issues, would be cheaper to light appropriately and cheaper to fill up with stuff.

 

[beaslbob]

Originally posted by ReefNut
Ok, let me restate this... Salt WILL breakdown concrete. That is just not workable. Not to mention the impurities that would be introduced by using it.
despite your concerns, I have read numerous articles on the web. The mixture is portland concrete, sand (southdown), Oyster shells mixed with water. And then cured underwater until ph stabilizes at 8.4 (about6-8 weeks or so). Seems to work fine with reef tanks also. Plus you can mold it to any old shape you want.
I don't know what impurities you are worried about. Just checked with a materials engineer here and concrete is basically calcium carbinate that has been fired and ground up. Adding water rehydrates the mix and it hardens. The primary leaching into tanks is calcium carbonate.
Concrete is routinely used in saltwater applications such as oil rigs and bridges. Romans build one of the first ports using concrete hundreds of years ago. So I don't think concrete in our tanks will dssolve any time soon.
perhaps someone can share their experiences with making their own rocks.

 

[birdy]

It does break down somewhat, but so does your sand and your LR, when you make it you let it cure for a long time to let all the bad stuff leach out. Read some of the info out there it is very interesting.

 

[reefnut]

Again Bob you feed half the story and all the BS. My main concern is having someone else's tank come out looking like yours.
Birdy, I did some reading and I was wrong. They are using cement and "plastic saw dust" not sure what that is. Chemical will leach from the concrete during the curing stage but if cured properly it seems to work.

 

[buzz]

If your PREFERENCE is to use the 10g as a display, then fine. Have at it. Yes, the 55g as a sump will help to stabilize the system. You didn't initially come across as if that was your preference though, but more of your decision based on cost.
As for lighting, I just saw someone in the trading and classifieds forum sell a single (175w or 200w I think) MH complete setup for $75.
Go ahead and price out some new PC's or something like that for your 10g. Compare the prices. It can be done if you shop around.
Don't choose the 10g as a display because you think you have no options. You do. If you would PREFER to use the 10g, then that's a different story. Enjoy!

 

[bang guy]

Yes, Salt breaks down concrete... saltwater does not though. Salt breaks it down by forming crystals in the gaps and there's enough pressure from the crystal to chip away dust sized particles. Add a billion salt crystals and over time the concrete will be worn away.
Salt does not form crystals in water at 35ppt so there's nothing to chip away at the concrete as long as it's kept underwater.
It definately needs to be cured. The PH will go into the 10's or 11's if you place it directly into a tank.
Maybe I'll take a picture of the live cinder blocks I have in my Lagoon.

 

[dburr]

I have made some rock. It's easy and cheap. Try garf.
Plastic saw dust is what it is. Plastic (PVC) saw (saw) dust (Shavings). Cut up some PVC and use the shavings in your mixture. It will help the bacteria and coraline grow on it.
I put mine rock in the stream near my house for 12 weeks. Then put it in a bucket for a day to check the PH level that letches out the cement. (never did come down I used it anyway). I now use it in my refuge.
Good luck. Dan

 

[curtis12282]

Originally posted by Buzz
Don't choose the 10g as a display because you think you have no options. You do. If you would PREFER to use the 10g, then that's a different story. Enjoy!

Well, In a perfect wourld I would like to set my 55 up as a reef with corals inverts and a FEW fish. The thing I'm worried about is spending all that money to set a 55 reef and finding it to be something that doesn’t interest me as much as I thought it would. I would rather start small do that for a good while, see if I enjoy it, and then progress to something bigger. So, you can see i dont prefer to do the 10 gal(but am content with doing that first) I'm just afraid i would start the 55 gal and peter out and have wasted a substantal amount of cash.

 

[bwmichael21]

I have a question about this "concrete live rock" you guys are making. I always thought the big plus of adding live rock to a marine habitat was its ability to biologically filter the water. This is achieved by the larger surface area created from all the holes, ripples and such. Larger area of exchange between the bacteria and the water. Does this rock your making have a similar ratio of water to rock surface contact ? Another with the live rock that i use (have been told tonga is very heavy) is that is really light. Years ago i can home to a 150 gal all over my floor thanks to a rock falling and breaking the bottom glass.

 

[dburr]

This rock IMO is on the heavy side. It has all the nooks and cranies that LR would have. I would use it as a base, not completly fill the tank with home made rock. LR has the bacteria and other stuff that will move over on to the HMR. All you would need is a few pieces of LR instead of #'s.
I think the idea is a good one to use the 10 gal. as main and the 55 as a sump. It would be stable, you can have a dsb in the 55, only a few corals would be needed to fill it up, only a couple of fish, less $ spent on lights and other "stuff".
It could be done very cheaply without being cheap. If you want out in a few months you would make most of your money back. Word of caution, once you get the bug, theirs no turnin' back.
Good luck.