Instant Invert Death

[adam2817]

I need help real bad. Here goes.....................I have a 72 gal bow with a wet/dry with a 700gph pump. A prisim protien skimmer with activated carbon(just recently added, will explain) a Posphate reactor, tank temp +-80 degrees. I have a 4ft actinic/daylight lighting system. I also have a UV and I NOW have 45 Lbs. of live rock, 2 feather dusters, 1 snail, 3 Percula clowns, 1 Algae blenny and a sand substrate. My Ph is 8.4, salt is 1.025, nitrate is 0, Nitrite is <10, ammonia 0 and calcium is 165 and rising( with Purple-Up additive) I had it running about 1 1/2 years ago, initially was fine, cycled normally, added fish, inverts then............everything started to die. didn't run longer then 8 months or so till the crash. We thought my Ehiem 6650 was too much filtration so we went and changed to the Wet/dry in november (new tank and filter) Started it up, added the OLD live rock. Cycled in a few weeks added fish..ok....added inverts...Instant death! cleaner shrimp lasted less than 1 hour. Snails, less than 4 hours. Only things that survived are the clowns and the blenny. By chance the feather dusters survived and a small snail. I decided to change the rock, thinking that the old rock was contaminating the tank. Have now 45 lbs of New Figi rock. ran it for 2 weeks, added 1 cleaner shrimp, 5 snails and a star. As usual, everything was dead in less than 4 hours. the snails take a while to die. Star, dead in 1.5 hours, cleaner less than 1 hour. I have tested for copper and have found nothing. I put the carbon in the protien skimmer with hopes that is any contaminants were in the tank, they would be taken out with the carbon, but no luck. I really hope someone can figure out and give me some suggestions. You folks have some beautiful stuff and I hope you can help me get there. I rreally need help! Badly! Please.......

 

[texasex]

How long did you acclimate before you added your inverts? Shrimp and starfish especially are extremely sensitive to changes in your salinity. You have to drip acclimate shrimp atleast 1 - 2 hours (someone correct me if I am off) and starfish a minimum of 4 hours, or . . . INSTANT DEATH!! Your calcium should be around 450 for your inverts - snails, crabs, shrimp (not sure how it affects starfish, ophiura would know). They need it for proper growth and molting.

 

[teresaq1]

Test for copper???????

 

[ohiorn67]

we have a cleaner shrimp and lots of snails and a few hermit crabs.....we never acllimated that long..over an hours time....let float for 30 min for temp and then every 15 min added a small bit of tank water, etc...this is over 2 months ago, all healthy so I don't see the instant death being from under a 4 hour acclimation..same for our red sea starfish...doing great.....I would check for anything that might have gotten into your tank....someone said copper, what about any kind of anything that could have gone through old tank and filter, were they used?

 

[essop3]

Is it correct in your post that nitrites are <10 or did you mean nitrates? New rock can start a new cycle.
Acclimate shrimp about 3 hours but alot of people dont acclimate snails or crabs at all and they do ok. I agree with testing for copper.

 

[texasex]

ohiorn67, I have to disagree with you. I will admit that things can survive from a shortened acclimation time (I would be watching your star! It is probably dying slowly - ask Ophuria) but I meant that if adam2817 just threw his new guys into his tank, they won't survive! Everyone is right about the copper. That is a nasty little additive!

 

[adam2817]

I did test for copper and their isn't any. I didn't use used equipment when I changed the tank to the wet/dry system, all new. New tank and new wet/dry, so I don't think there are any contaminants from that. I did float them for about 30 min for temp, but not for water acclimation, so that may be an option. I'll try that. Yes, I meant <10 on the NitrAtes (always mix them up). The tank cycled for about 3 weeks b4 I put anything in it initially and with the new rock (added about 2 weeks ago) so it was a cycle of 2 weeks with the 40 Lbs. of new rock. All the old stuff is gone. I am slowly trying to get my calcium up to required levels, I just don't want to crash what I have left. The SeaTest isn't easy to read, but I believe it's up to about 195 or so. I'll try the slow acclimation anything alse if that's not it? Thanks for the advice.

 

[75bownut]

Are you adding the lfs water to your tank when you release them?? Could be something in that water?!?!?!? :notsure:

 

[schadiest1]

IMO using chemicals that you don't have to use is a good idea. coralline algae will come in time, no sense in rushing it. as far as acclimation, i float the bag for 30-45 mins, move the fish/invert and water into a open container, and add 1/4 cup of water every ten mins, and do that 3 or 4 times depending on how sensitive the creature is. i haven't had a single death doing that sinse i started the hobby over a year ago.

 

[adam2817]

I would agree with LFS contaminated water, but the inverts were living in the same water they are packaged in.
I don't understand what you mean about additives. Are you referring to the calcium addative or something else?

 

[ohiorn67]

shadiest1, I do exactly as you do to acclimate and have yet to lost anything...only been doing this 3 months, but so far so good. Texasex, I do agree, if you throw them in they won't do well at all and a fast death, I did not say I do that, I acclimate over a time, see my post...so far no deaths, I disagree with you about my star, he spot feeds with mysis shrimp and does great. we got lucky on that one. We put the shrimp on a rock and put him on top...he loves it and once he eats that is active more for a little bit.

 

[ophiura]

Have you every tried a polyfilter? See what color it turns.
I agree that boosting your calcium is a good idea, but what is your alkalinity? You don't want to be adding a calcium supplement without following alkalinity.
Acclimation could be an issue - did you get your inverts from the same LFS? Do you know what their specific gravity is? If there are significant differences between them, that can cause pretty rapid death.
Do you use tap water or RO? Have you ever added medication to the tank?

 

[adam2817]

No, I have not used a poly filter. I will though. I also do not know what my alkalinity is. I have to get a test for it. I never used medication in the tank. I did get all the inverts from the same LFS and their specific gravity is 1.025, just like mine. I tryed the acclimation today. I got 7 snails and floated them for 30-40 min. I then dripped them for >1.5 hours then started adding them. as of right now, I have 2 left and 1 I believe is dying right now. they were fine in the bucket I dripped them in, but once they hit the tank...RIP
I have been using tap water. My ro unit is in the mail.
I did also get a feather duster and it didn't crawl out of the tube like the others have, so that is a good sign. To me at least.

 

[adam2817]

Ok, here's the morning update. All of the turbo snails I put in are dead. 1 small black snail did live and is still stuck to the glass where I put it. Let's see if he moves. The feather duster is doing fine. The acclimation seemed to help for the FD but not the snails. I'm gonna check my Alck. today. Any other suggestions? PS. I have stopped adding any additives for the time being. :notsure:

 

[ophiura]

No more inverts. Start with a polyfilter and an alkalinity test...You've already tested for copper? Can your LFS test for anything else, such as iron or something?

 

[adam2817]

I put in the poly today, we'll see what happens with that. I tested for Alck and according to this Fastest, I came up with 7Ml or 350ppm. I think it should be around 2.5-5 but correct me if I am wrong. As of this postinf, my featherduster is now climbing out of it's tube. This is not 17 hours after it was put in. As for an iron test, I don't think so. Thanks in advance.

 

[ophiura]

I am generally worried about some sort of heavy metal toxicity, which tends to adversely affect inverts and not fish. Normally, if we were talking about some sort of organic thing - say a cleanser or something, the fish go belly up and the inverts can look fine.

 

[wax32]

When you float these things for 30-40 minutes are the lights off or are you boiling them in the bag?

 

[texasex]

Don't buy any more inverts!!!! Take a little bit of your tank water to your LFS and have it tested. Maybe your test kit is old or off or something! Maybe they can find something that your test kit is missing! But please, stop the massacre!!! (just razzing ya!)

 

[scubatiffy]

I don't know a lot about your problem but I remembered my dad had a very similar problem about 10 years ago. I just spoke with him and he said what caused his invert problems (almost identical to yours) was that he used a plastic hose in the system that he bought from a hardware store. Apparently it was toxic. He saved a couple of fish by putting them in his hospital tank while he completely re-did his tank with new hoses...
Have you added anything plastic that didn't come from a fish store, like a bowl for frags or something similar?