darthtang aw
Active Member
I just read that IRAN has deployed revolutionary guard troops into Iraq to help them beat back the insurgents/al quada.
Is this a good or bad thing?
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darthtang aw
Active Member
I guess now we can just st back and watch what happens.
I can potentially see Iran's territory growing larger. Or one of our few "allies" in the middle east joining Iran.
I can potentially see Iran's territory growing larger. Or one of our few "allies" in the middle east joining Iran.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Am I the only person that thinks this is very bad for our national interests and securities?
theclemsonkid
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547002
Am I the only person that thinks this is very bad for our national interests and securities?
America has their s**t so backwards it's not even funny. We go into these places, take out their leaders, and then do the minimum to secure whatever we want from them (oil, minerals, infrastructure contracts, etc) and then at some point leave. What the Hell do you think is going to happen when we leave the place poor and broken just like when we found it?
At one time in our history, we were smart about occupation and redelevopment. Can anyone guess where that was?
I'll give you a clue, one rhymes with Ha-pan, and the other rhymes with Hermany.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547002
Am I the only person that thinks this is very bad for our national interests and securities?
America has their s**t so backwards it's not even funny. We go into these places, take out their leaders, and then do the minimum to secure whatever we want from them (oil, minerals, infrastructure contracts, etc) and then at some point leave. What the Hell do you think is going to happen when we leave the place poor and broken just like when we found it?
At one time in our history, we were smart about occupation and redelevopment. Can anyone guess where that was?
I'll give you a clue, one rhymes with Ha-pan, and the other rhymes with Hermany.
Americans are sick of war and lies told to us in order to connive us into accepting that war is necessary. Iraq's leaders brought this on themselves because NO, that country is not ready for any sort of democratically elected-free government. Its all about this tribe vs that tribe. They are all still living with corrupt medieval mindsets.
Can't see too many people giving a rat's ass. Except if oil prices escalates.
Can't see too many people giving a rat's ass. Except if oil prices escalates.
darthtang aw
Active Member
And that is the problem. We dont have the foresight to see what may happen with the wait and see approach. With iran helping the iraqi government we wont need to go in. We also may lose an independent iraq to iran. With iran under sanctions control of iraqi oil may go to them. Giving them a total of ten percent of the oil production for the entire world. Potentially more if iraq were to ever get fully online. This would make iran the largest producer in opec.
Add into the mix what is going on with ukraine and how closely allied russia and iran that is some serious influence affecting the energy needing world.
Even if this doesnt come to pass and civil war rages for years. Iraq produces five percent of the worlds oil. That is nothing to sneeze at.
But hey, did you hear kanye and kim got married?
Add into the mix what is going on with ukraine and how closely allied russia and iran that is some serious influence affecting the energy needing world.
Even if this doesnt come to pass and civil war rages for years. Iraq produces five percent of the worlds oil. That is nothing to sneeze at.
But hey, did you hear kanye and kim got married?
reefraff
Active Member
Anyone (including the President) who didn't see this coming after we failed to get a status of forces agreement isn't paying attention. I say use it as a drone training ground for a few months while we blow the crap out of the equipment we left behind then let Iran try to take it over LOL! I suspect Iran's commitment to helping Iraq stop the terrorists will end once they control Iraq's southern oil fields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547100
And that is the problem. We dont have the foresight to see what may happen with the wait and see approach.
Here is the problem as I see it. Our government has embraced a globalized philosophy and with that we feel we need to become fortune-tellers, predicting what is going to happen before it happens, and using our military to shape what will happen. That is how we ended up warring with Iraq to begin with which is the biggest blunder this country ever made.
We managed to save the world in WWII WAITING to get involved when it was only absolutely necessary to do that. Why must we be soothsayers now predicting what may happen and take preemptive aggressive actions? The Iraqi government brought this on themselves and they have pretty much ignored our recommendations pertaining integrating all factions of Iraqis into their government. The result is now you have opposing factions trying to take over the country. Also, Obama is willing to assist with CONDITIONS that involve resolving the conflicts with Iraqi factions that breed this problem. If the Iraqi gov doesn't agree, then let them fight it out for themselves. Also, if other countries want Iraqi oil, then let them fight for it. We have plenty of our own oil. Always rushing in to save the day (or shape the day) does little to make countries stand on their own.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547100
And that is the problem. We dont have the foresight to see what may happen with the wait and see approach.
Here is the problem as I see it. Our government has embraced a globalized philosophy and with that we feel we need to become fortune-tellers, predicting what is going to happen before it happens, and using our military to shape what will happen. That is how we ended up warring with Iraq to begin with which is the biggest blunder this country ever made.
We managed to save the world in WWII WAITING to get involved when it was only absolutely necessary to do that. Why must we be soothsayers now predicting what may happen and take preemptive aggressive actions? The Iraqi government brought this on themselves and they have pretty much ignored our recommendations pertaining integrating all factions of Iraqis into their government. The result is now you have opposing factions trying to take over the country. Also, Obama is willing to assist with CONDITIONS that involve resolving the conflicts with Iraqi factions that breed this problem. If the Iraqi gov doesn't agree, then let them fight it out for themselves. Also, if other countries want Iraqi oil, then let them fight for it. We have plenty of our own oil. Always rushing in to save the day (or shape the day) does little to make countries stand on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547123
I'd rather pay a little more for gas than to keep funding wars over the middle easts oil. Its not like their reserves are infinite at this point. Who cares?
Yes. And to add, that oil is not for us anyway. If European and Asian countries want that oil, then let them fight for it for a change. I remember those countries openly rebuking American imperialism over the Iraqi war yet they were the first to get the spoils--Iraqi oil and we got nada. Let the lights go out for them, or they can battle for it. USA has a enough military might to blast every country on the planet into oblivion within just a few days, so Russian alliances with these medievalist countries that have oil is no real threat to us--as long as we return to our root ideology and stop policing and trying to control the world.
Instead of meeting such threats with our military might, let us advance our technology (which we are superior in every way) and move toward a nation that is off the teat of fossil fuel. Yes, it will take decades, but lets get on with it. Pour our resources in to that and Americans will get behind it. And why would they? Because its an investment in AMERICAN interests, not the interests of some Godforsaken country where the people there hate our guts.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547123
I'd rather pay a little more for gas than to keep funding wars over the middle easts oil. Its not like their reserves are infinite at this point. Who cares?
Yes. And to add, that oil is not for us anyway. If European and Asian countries want that oil, then let them fight for it for a change. I remember those countries openly rebuking American imperialism over the Iraqi war yet they were the first to get the spoils--Iraqi oil and we got nada. Let the lights go out for them, or they can battle for it. USA has a enough military might to blast every country on the planet into oblivion within just a few days, so Russian alliances with these medievalist countries that have oil is no real threat to us--as long as we return to our root ideology and stop policing and trying to control the world.
Instead of meeting such threats with our military might, let us advance our technology (which we are superior in every way) and move toward a nation that is off the teat of fossil fuel. Yes, it will take decades, but lets get on with it. Pour our resources in to that and Americans will get behind it. And why would they? Because its an investment in AMERICAN interests, not the interests of some Godforsaken country where the people there hate our guts.
geridoc
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547129
Yes. And to add, that oil is not for us anyway. If European and Asian countries want that oil, then let them fight for it for a change. I remember those countries openly rebuking American imperialism over the Iraqi war yet they were the first to get the spoils--Iraqi oil and we got nada. Let the lights go out for them, or they can battle for it. USA has a enough military might to blast every country on the planet into oblivion within just a few days, so Russian alliances with these medievalist countries that have oil is no real threat to us--as long as we return to our root ideology and stop policing and trying to control the world.
Sorry, but that isn't the way international oil pricing works. If there is a shortage in Europe, the price rises there - we all know that. However, the US extractors/refiners will prefer to sell their oil in Europe for more $$$, so the domestic price rises too. The solution is not to become independent of middle eastern oil, but to become independent of fossil fuels, period.
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547129
Yes. And to add, that oil is not for us anyway. If European and Asian countries want that oil, then let them fight for it for a change. I remember those countries openly rebuking American imperialism over the Iraqi war yet they were the first to get the spoils--Iraqi oil and we got nada. Let the lights go out for them, or they can battle for it. USA has a enough military might to blast every country on the planet into oblivion within just a few days, so Russian alliances with these medievalist countries that have oil is no real threat to us--as long as we return to our root ideology and stop policing and trying to control the world.
Sorry, but that isn't the way international oil pricing works. If there is a shortage in Europe, the price rises there - we all know that. However, the US extractors/refiners will prefer to sell their oil in Europe for more $$$, so the domestic price rises too. The solution is not to become independent of middle eastern oil, but to become independent of fossil fuels, period.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Instead of meeting such threats with our military might, let us advance our technology (which we are superior in every way) and move toward a nation that is off the teat of fossil fuel. Yes, it will take decades, but lets get on with it. Pour our resources in to that and Americans will get behind it. And why would they? Because its an investment in AMERICAN interests, not the interests of some Godforsaken country where the people there hate our guts.
I think many would agree we need to wheen ourselves off of the fossil fules. A shortage/crisis is a good motivator for that.
We've enjoyed cheap oil for quite a while now. Sooner or later we just need to suck it up and bite the bullet. I'm ready. Let's get it on! Prices aren't getting any cheaper so the longer we wait the worse it gets.
Killing one alleged terrorist in order to create two more that hate us isn't working for me anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547131
Sorry, but that isn't the way international oil pricing works. If there is a shortage in Europe, the price rises there - we all know that. However, the US extractors/refiners will prefer to sell their oil in Europe for more $$$, so the domestic price rises too. The solution is not to become independent of middle eastern oil, but to become independent of fossil fuels, period.
I said that here didn't I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547129
Instead of meeting such threats with our military might, let us advance our technology (which we are superior in every way) and move toward a nation that is off the teat of fossil fuel. Yes, it will take decades, but lets get on with it. Pour our resources in to that and Americans will get behind it. And why would they? Because its an investment in AMERICAN interests, not the interests of some Godforsaken country where the people there hate our guts.
We aren't dependent on ME oil unless we choose to be. When Americans have to pay $10-$15 a gal there will be a tremendous backlash that will effect world economy (until prices are reduced). That will result in a lot less ability for other countries to buy oil from us.
Originally Posted by GeriDoc http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547131
Sorry, but that isn't the way international oil pricing works. If there is a shortage in Europe, the price rises there - we all know that. However, the US extractors/refiners will prefer to sell their oil in Europe for more $$$, so the domestic price rises too. The solution is not to become independent of middle eastern oil, but to become independent of fossil fuels, period.
I said that here didn't I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397787/is-this-a-good-or-bad-thing#post_3547129
Instead of meeting such threats with our military might, let us advance our technology (which we are superior in every way) and move toward a nation that is off the teat of fossil fuel. Yes, it will take decades, but lets get on with it. Pour our resources in to that and Americans will get behind it. And why would they? Because its an investment in AMERICAN interests, not the interests of some Godforsaken country where the people there hate our guts.
We aren't dependent on ME oil unless we choose to be. When Americans have to pay $10-$15 a gal there will be a tremendous backlash that will effect world economy (until prices are reduced). That will result in a lot less ability for other countries to buy oil from us.
theclemsonkid
Member
In order for oil to A) become affordable, or B) stop using it all together and move on to new technology, one thing would have to happen... which never will.
The people who make trillions of dollars from it would have to take the "people and country are more important than money" approach.
Do you ever see that happening? Yeah, me neither.
The people who make trillions of dollars from it would have to take the "people and country are more important than money" approach.
Do you ever see that happening? Yeah, me neither.
I'm not convinced that's the "only reason". I think we are stockpiling and reserving untapped resource for a rainy day, so to speak. And, yes, that day will eventually come unless we move toward alternatives. I'm pretty sure that energy companies are working on alternatives but won't make any real move with it until absolutely necessary (when what we have is tapping out).
2quills
Well-Known Member
There's still too much money to be made in fossil fuels to want to give it up any time soon. We'll burn that candle till the end IMO.
But I also agree that this is about controlling resources. Because who ever is left still holding those resources in the end will be in a greater position of leverage. Why burn ours when we can burn theirs up first?
But I also agree that this is about controlling resources. Because who ever is left still holding those resources in the end will be in a greater position of leverage. Why burn ours when we can burn theirs up first?