IS this Live Sand of Algea Sand???

tony detroit

Active Member

Originally posted by AREIJIN
So if I go either way should I take a few punds of my current sand and mix it with the new stuff to jumpstart the "live" process?

correct
Originally posted by AREIJIN

Then what do you do with the rest of the sand? There is a lot of critter in there.

throw it away or sell it as live sand
The Dude, love that avitar. That movie is great.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Deep sand beds have worked well for me for over 2 decades of reefkeeping. I'm not saying you need one but they've proven their usefulness to me many times over.
 

rook

Member
Well, as I said above, just because some, typically those who have no experience with using the dsb methods of reefkeeping, cannot get their intellects around the idea that dsb's do and have worked for decades for many many people, and that these are usually the most vocal people on the internet, don't just take any one person's word for what will work best for you. There are many different methods out there. DSB's do work whether Tony believes it or not. Skimmers also work. You need to read up on it, not just responses from people on these boards. There are several books and articles that discuss the benefits and negatives to the different methods.
If you do use a dsb. Don't use your old substrate on the top of it. You can place some of it into an old nylon with a small cut in the top and leave that in for a few days on top of the dsb. This will allow the critters to migrate and not get the large rubble into your system. Also, you can place a cup of seaweeds and some food inside of your tank now to attract and harvest the critters and keep them in a QT until you dsb is ready.
A 1 - 2" sand bed is not really a method of filtration so you would need another form. They are basically just for looks and to provide some plankton and pods to feed the tank inhabitants.
 

thedude

Member
Wait, are there several books and articles that discuss the benefits of a DSB? lol, j/k.
typically those who have no experience with using the dsb methods of reefkeeping, cannot get their intellects around the idea that dsb's do and have worked for decades

A statement like this tells me that a DSB might not be a good idea for the inexperienced reefkeeper...im sure they are good and can work great under the right conditions (especially when youve read books on the topic), but I think in general...and excuse me if im wrong..a DSB might be dangerous for the beginner. :thinking:
Tony, thanks! I love that movie too, obviously :rolleyes:
 

rook

Member
A statement like this tells me that a DSB might not be a good idea for the inexperienced reefkeeper...im sure they are good and can work great under the right conditions (especially when youve read books on the topic), but I think in general...and excuse me if im wrong..a DSB might be dangerous for the beginner.
Yes, a dsb is not a method you should try if you have not taken the time to figure out how to make it work. Once you learn the basics though it is pretty easy. However, you can say the same thing about skimming. If you don't take the time to learn how to use your skimmer or how to clean and maintain a skimmer and to replace any chemicals that may be removed, you could have problems. There is not much you can do successfully without some research.
 

bang guy

Moderator
Tony had (really sorry man
) a great tank. This proves to me that there is no single right way to maintain a reef tank. I cannot judge other ways of reefkeeping because I've only done DSB or CC with a UGF (not the best way!). DSB works for me and keeps my excess nutrients at or near zero. The only kicker is that effort (ie. money) needs to be expended to maintain the critter diversity in my opinion. It doesn't magically happen. You need to occationally reinforce the critter populations. The smaller the sand bed the more often this needs to be done.
I believe they are ideal for new hobbiests because the maintenance is pretty well documented. However, I can't imagine a worse nutrient sink that a DSB with all the life stripped out from a sandsifter or neglect.
IMO the minumum DSB is 2.5" of very fine sand. Shallower than that and you're better off going 1/2" - 1" of sand.
I also believe that a skimmer is imperative with a DSB or there's nothing to remove the excess bacteria (ie. Phosphate).
 

tony detroit

Active Member
While I am no scientist or chemist or marine biologist, I have experience with a wide array of different husbandry techniques, filtration, fuges, macros, miracle mud, mineral mud, southdown, aragonite, dsb, ssb, nsb, etc. Tried it all. Ozone, UV, venturi skimming, mazzei skimming, needlewheel skimming, waterflow, eductor nozzles, seaswirls, etc., etc etc. My cleanest tank was when I did the following, which was on my last tank.
Run 50mg/hr into skimmer of ozone. Run ridiculous waterflow, as much as the bulkheads can drain. Run just enough aragonite to cover the glass, aesthetics only, otherwise I'd have none. Do a 30 gal waterchange weekly. Run 150mg carbon, replaced bi-weekly, purigen, and 200micron filtersocks. When my pumps were turned off my tank looked like there was no water even in it. Every system I set up I improve something from the system before. I also see a lot of systems, many in my area from the local reef club. I listen to advice when I see people with a nicer tank than mine. I dripped kalkwater, and ran a calcium reactor. On my next tank I am putting another sump in where I can grow macroalgae, no sand, just macroalgae. They remove a lot of waste. I am putting in 2 seaswirls to eliminate deadspots, and am landscaping the tank so that there are as few as possible dead water spots. I am also purchasing a new recirculating needlewheel skimmer. I'm not sure if I'm going with the deltec or the H and S, but both will be a vast improvement from what I am currently using.
Now, back to the DSB. In theory a DSB could work, WITH THE RIGHT CRITTERS and RIGHT ENVIRONMENT. I believe for 90% of hobbyists it will not create some magical 4'' deep sand ecosystem like they think they are getting however. The following idea for most hobbyists after this is that they no longer need to do waterchanges. I believe and have seen that for the majority it will create poor growth, poor coloration, and in general a much dirtier tank than is necessary. I bought my tank to view it, I like to clean it as little as possible.
Another sorepoint for me was waterflow with the dsb. The sand/southdown starts blowing everywhere. I love chaotic waterflow, a great thing for your reef. I also disliked the coloration and algae outbreaks everywhere you look.
Bang and the rest if that works for you I am more than happy for you. I am however here to state that my tank has never looked cleaner and ran easier, colored up better, shown better polyp extension, and lost less coral than it has when set up with the proper filtration and maintenanced properly.
 

bang guy

Moderator
There just isn't any way to argue against success :)
I totally agree with emulating tank that have already achieved your desired results.
I am absolutely not an SPS person and that could be a big difference in our experiences with DSBs.
 
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