Just saw this bumber sticker!!!

team2jndd

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
how retarded do you think i am? i can think for myself. do you let your musical tases dictate your moral beliefs?
No but I wouldn't say that bob marley is my idol and then say that every body who smokes/promotes the smoking of marijuana is immoral.
 

team2jndd

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I doubt it is 'worst case scenerio' since I can think of far worse scenerios. People have to take the risks. We don't have a military just so we can pay a bunch of people, we pay them to fight.
Perhaps not worst case but deffinately not something that they willingly go into. I am just saying that it isn't volunteer work it is a job. They don't volunteer their service they apply for a job.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by team2jndd
No but I wouldn't say that bob marley is my idol and then say that every body who smokes/promotes the smoking of marijuana is immoral.
I'm not much of a Marilyn Mason fan so maybe I am missing something but does he tell people to go to war in his songs?
 

alix2.0

Active Member
i didnt say that anybody is my idol or that anybody is immoral. i am just voicing my opinion, because that is what this thread is about. honestly, i colud care less what anybody does as long as it doesnt affect me. but that does not change what i think is right.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
my grandfather was in the 8th airforce in ww2, and i consider him a murderer. war is no way to solve anything. maybe instead of trying to kill everyone who pisses us off, maybe we should be acting proactively to prevent causing the problems in the future. and dont say that killing people is a way to do that, because im not buying that.
I'm sure if we would have reasoned with Hitler we could have prevented WW2.
Oh, wait, we did try to reason with him. That lead to 100 million people dying throughout the world.
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I'm not much of a Marilyn Mason fan so maybe I am missing something but does he tell people to go to war in his songs?
no, quite the opposite. i think he may be referring to manson's SS uniforms, which are used as a symbol of hypocrisy and corruption in todays government.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by team2jndd
Perhaps not worst case but deffinately not something that they willingly go into. I am just saying that it isn't volunteer work it is a job. They don't volunteer their service they apply for a job.
Luckily for us we are in control of our own actions. If we are opposed to doing something that is required in our jobs we have the choice to say now. Granted that might mean we lose that job or get yelled at but if I was told to do something I believed was wrong I'd like to think I wouldn't just saying, 'It's not my fault, I'm just doing my job.."
I like to think we are able to make our own choices.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
no, quite the opposite. i think he may be referring to manson's SS uniforms, which are used as a symbol of hypocrisy and corruption in todays government.
I didn't think he was like that. Althought I don't care much for his music I've heard him speak and be interviewed and he didn't sound like that kind of person.
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I'm sure if we would have reasoned with Hitler we could have prevented WW2.
Oh, wait, we did try to reason with him. That lead to 100 million people dying throughout the world.
we tried to reason after the problem had already begun. things should have been happening differently since... probably the beginning of time. but we cant change that now. so why do we have to prolong the problems? instead we should be evaluating the situation and taking action to change OUR ways, instead of the ways of others.
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I didn't think he was like that. Althought I don't care much for his music I've heard him speak and be interviewed and he didn't sound like that kind of person.
are you saying this in a positive or negative way? i am not arguing either way, i would just like to say that even if you dont like his image, opinions, music, art, costumes, etc... he is still a very intelligent human being. and is not at all a "devil worshipper", nazi, racist, sexist, advocate of domestic violence, etc.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
are you saying this in a positive or negative way? i am not arguing either way, i would just like to say that even if you dont like his image, opinions, music, art, costumes, etc... he is still a very intelligent human being. and is not at all a "devil worshipper", nazi, racist, sexist, advocate of domestic violence, etc.
I meant to say he seemed very 'level-headed' compared what one might expect given his appearance.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by alix2.0
we tried to reason after the problem had already begun. things should have been happening differently since... probably the beginning of time. but we cant change that now. so why do we have to prolong the problems? instead we should be evaluating the situation and taking action to change OUR ways, instead of the ways of others.
So if the Jews would have changed their ways Hitler wouldn't have gassed them?
If the peasants in Cambodia would have changed their ways would a third of them not be buried in the killing fields today?
If the millions of Russians under Stalin would have just changed their ways the Russian Purge would not have taken place?
If the South Koreans would have changed their ways they wouldn't have been invaded by the North?
If the darn Kuwaitis would have changed their ways maybe Suddam wouldn't have invaded Kuwait in 1990.
If the folks working in the WTC buildings on 9-11 would have changed their ways....
Sorry. That's crap. War is in many cases absolutely justified.
 

alix2.0

Active Member
Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I meant to say he seemed very 'level-headed' compared what one might expect given his appearance.
yes i agree. everyone is deeper than their image, either in a good or a bad way. nobody is truely who they say they are.
by the way, i dont see how this thread has anything to do with marilyn manson... i dont really appreciate someone belittling my opinions based on my SWF avatar.
 

lil' tanker

Member
Originally Posted by team2jndd
You have to admit that a decent paycheck, housing and all the other benefits with only a highschool degree and no other requirements would be appealing to somebody who can't afford college on their own. Or even somebody who has no other career opportunities at hand.
If they really wanted to they could have gone for scholarships I go to a private school and there was a person who had to pay for his own schooling and he applied himself and got full scholarship offers to Yale and Harvard. So that's not a good excuse gotta come up with more than that. And also for those who might not be as gifted have you seen Pursuit of Happyness? True Story ok. Apply yourselves and work hard or be proud to serve your country it's a choice not a draft!
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Yes, my bad. Someone brought it up and it got me curious.
Back to the main discussion... The bumper sticker, in my opinion is just pointless unless the point is to stir up discussion. If that was the point it seems to have found success. But personally I believe that if someone truely believes that a war is wrong they could probably find a much better way of expressing themselves other than buying a mass produced bumper sticker and placing it on their bumper.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
Originally Posted by lil' tanker
If they really wanted to they could have gone for scholarships I go to a private school and there was a person who had to pay for his own schooling and he applied himself and got full scholarship offers to Yale and Harvard. So that's not a good excuse gotta come up with more than that. And also for those who might not be as gifted have you seen Pursuit of Happyness? True Story ok. Apply yourselves and work hard or be proud to serve your country it's a choice not a draft!
Also, on the college issue. Yes, I am sure many people signed up for the college benefits but I've learned something now that I am in college. Many of the students starting right out of highschool get more government support for college compared to being receiving the GI bill.
 

jovial

Member
I thought the general German population did not support the Nazi's, but after the German government disarmed the people their means to resist was significantly restricted.
 

team2jndd

Active Member
Originally Posted by lil' tanker
If they really wanted to they could have gone for scholarships I go to a private school and there was a person who had to pay for his own schooling and he applied himself and got full scholarship offers to Yale and Harvard. So that's not a good excuse gotta come up with more than that. And also for those who might not be as gifted have you seen Pursuit of Happyness? True Story ok. Apply yourselves and work hard or be proud to serve your country it's a choice not a draft!
haha scholarships to harvard and yhale? That is NOT a typical human being and DEFFINATELY not the type of person who considers the millitary. The type I am talking are the ones that are more mainstream and don't have the same opportunities. and pursuit of happiness... are you really going to use that as an example? We are talking NORMAL circumstances not geniuses and tear jerkers here.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by team2jndd
haha scholarships to harvard and yhale? That is NOT a typical human being and DEFFINATELY not the type of person who considers the millitary. The type I am talking are the ones that are more mainstream and don't have the same opportunities. and pursuit of happiness... are you really going to use that as an example? We are talking NORMAL circumstances not geniuses and tear jerkers here.
That argument works both ways; are you saying only the poor with no hope of going to college join the military?
 
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