just starting...I'm scared !!!!!!!!!!!!

[anthony occhio]

My 14yr. old son is hot and heavy into buying a saltwater tank. He is using most of his own money and I will take care of the rest as a Confirmation gift. I have been looking on Craigslist for a new tank because quite frankly new is very expensive. I am of little help to him as I only have experience with freshwater. Don't laugh but my son has only been taking care of a little 10 gallon fresh for the past year . Thats it for the both of us. I tried telling him what a huge responsibility saltwater tanks are but because its his money I think I am fighting a loosing battle his heart is set on salt. Now for the questions too many options for me with filtration. How is this cannister(fluval) method? what should we go with if the tank is not predrilled is this method fine. I have an opportunity to purchase a used equipment from a pet store thats going out of business. He has a fluval 404 and he said that I could use an undergravel filter with it and a few powerheads. Basically what gives us the best chance for our tank to flourish. thanks your input is greatly appreciated

 

[flower]

Welcome to the site!
Saltwater tanks IMO are easier to care for than fresh. Critters take care of the tank for you. I assume you want fish only, or does he want coral? Coral requires expensive lighting.
Getting started: A good book, and Marine master test kit

• Fluval is fine, the under gravel is ridicules.
• Choose live sand, that’s best.
  You need lots of live rock
  At least 2 power heads. Koralia are the best, they have a magnet and stay put.

The bigger the tank the easier it is to care for, the opposite of fresh water.

 

[mrdc]

Welcome. You beat me to it Flower. I was going to say don't go with the under gravel filter but use live sand instead. Fluvals are fine and you can find replacement parts for them easily. If you want to go with a higher end canister filter, check out Eheim. Pretty much everything else Flower said. Do you have an idea at what size you might want? Do you know if your son is going with a fish only tank or a reef tank?

 

[anthony occhio]

I think we will stay away from coral for now due to that fact. Do we have to have a pre drilled tank because I found a 72 bow with overflow box, fluval, the live rock & sand for a good price. I am not sure if I can mention the exact amount on this message board. If I can I will tell you and maybe you can tell me if thats O.K. much appreciated..and thx for the welcome

 

[anthony occhio]

I guess reef tank means live rock. He said he does not just want a species tank. I believe just live rock and some fish to start. I may go look at a 72 bow on craigslist. It comes with t5 lighting w/moon light, 100lbsof rock , 75lbs of sand, 20 gallon wet/dry sump, overflow, fluval cannister, 2pwr heads. The add states that the tank is up and running with plenty of cra life Algae growing whatever that means. Does this sound sufficient???????? Can I post the price on the site?

 

[mrdc]

You can post the price. You just can't post links to other sites that advertise stuff for sale. When I say reef tank, I am referring to live rock, fish and mainly coral. A fish only tank to me is just the absence of coral. I think the ad may be referring to corraline algae. That's just beneficial algae that all hobbyists want because it gives the tank nice color and it is a natural filter.

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by anthony occhio
http:///forum/post/3259377
My 14yr. old son is hot and heavy into buying a saltwater tank. He is using most of his own money and I will take care of the rest as a Confirmation gift. I have been looking on Craigslist for a new tank because quite frankly new is very expensive. I am of little help to him as I only have experience with freshwater. Don't laugh but my son has only been taking care of a little 10 gallon fresh for the past year . Thats it for the both of us. I tried telling him what a huge responsibility saltwater tanks are but because its his money I think I am fighting a loosing battle his heart is set on salt. Now for the questions too many options for me with filtration. How is this cannister(fluval) method? what should we go with if the tank is not predrilled is this method fine. I have an opportunity to purchase a used equipment from a pet store thats going out of business. He has a fluval 404 and he said that I could use an undergravel filter with it and a few powerheads. Basically what gives us the best chance for our tank to flourish. thanks your input is greatly appreciated
the best filtration is biological, which means live rock and live sand. i would recommend as much live rock as possible and a sand bed of 1.5 to 3 inches. a good skimmer is a needed as is good flow(power heads) if your patient and thrifty you can buy some dry rock and dry sand and then seed both with a piece of live rock and a bag of live sand. or even better if you know anyone with an established tank, a cup or two of there sand will work. mechanical filtration is fine, canister, hang on back filters, etc. but stay away from undergravel, they are bad for salt tanks. the main difference between fresh and salt water is the bioload. i.e fish and inverts. you CANNOT put as many animals in a salt tank as you would a fresh water tank. you only need a pre-drilled tank if your using a sump or refugium. both things are easily googled. lastly expensive lighting is needed if you are planning on keeping corals and anemones. this forum and the folks here are very knowledgeable and willing to help, so you've come to the right place. good luck!

 

[anthony occhio]

Thank you for explaining. The cost is $575. Is the equipment ok for that price and more importantly is this a good way to start are introduction into saltwater without spending a ton of money

 

[mrdc]

Does it come with a canopy and stand?
But so far the price doesn't seem bad to me. A 100 lbs of live rock would cost me over $500 in my area alone. A new fluval 305 or higher would run around $170+. New sand is about $20 for 20 lbs. If it's a brand name sump, they can run $150+. You didn't list a protein skimmer.

 

[anthony occhio]

It does come with a stand. Does not look like it is a canopy type design rather glass hood with the light on top.

 

[mrdc]

I will let some others chime in but I am sticking with my first thought and that it might be a decent price for a starter tank. But just remember you still need fish and a protein skimmer so don't forget to factor in those costs.
And one more thing to consider since you are new at this. You will need to figure out how to transport the tank to your home.

 

[flower]

I put together the steps for set up for you.
40g bowfront ...That’s an excellent starter size tank, not too big and not too small. The price is good.
The glass top and light are great for fish only with live rock (no coral).
Having lots of patients is the next very important ingredient for a saltwater tank. It will take some time to get the tank ready for fish.
Before you start, you will need:

• a tank and lights
• Get a saltwater beginner book
• a master marine test kit
• an hydrometer or refractometer
• a thermometer. (sticky on the glass is good)
• heater
• live rock
  live sand
  2 power heads
  canister or HOB filter
  So to start you will need to set up, in order:

• 
  1. Tank and lights
  2. a heater (2 small better than 1 big one, if one breaks you have the other to keep things stable. Saltwater fish do not handle change well at all. Set the temp at 78/79 degrees. Put in place don't plug it in yet.
  3. Mix RO (Reverse Osmoses) water and a salt mix. Do not use tap water, it will cause big algae problems later (walmart sells water for .37 a gallon) Use a power head to churn the water and mix your salt for 24 hours before use. I use a plastic NEW garbage can and mark it FISH ONLY. This is used later for water changes and or emergencies, NEVER use it for anything but your fish tank..
  4. Fill the tank ½ way with saltwater an hydrometer reading should be between 1.020 and 1.024 for fish. (Set up but not turn on your canister, HOB filter, I don’t which you will choose?) A sump is a whole different set up for filtration.
  5. Add live rock (must be stable, gently twist and wiggle to get the rocks to lock into place with each other, you can feel when it “locks” and won’t move) You don’t want rock to fall crushing critters or breaking the tank.
  6. Add live sand around the rock not under it.
  7. Fill the tank up with saltwater. Plug in the heaters. Note to remember. Salt will not evaporate, only the water does. So to keep the SG (saltiness) level the same, keep the water at the same level by adding RO water to equal the evaporated water. This is called topping off. With a glass top evaporation is very slow.
  8. Place power heads against the back or on the sides of the tank, take a stick with a ribbon attached and move it around the filled tank. You want to make sure all areas have a current, no dead spots. If the ribbon goes limp move the power head until you have some flow in all areas. Not all areas will have strong flow, but there should be no dead spots.
  9. Add some cycle to help give the bacteria a kick (frozen shrimp in a mesh bag will work too and much faster)
  10. Turn on the filter. Then you wait and wait and wait…each day test for Ammonia
  Nitrites
  Nitrates.

When you see the ammonia spike, then go back down to 0…You can add a fish.
I don’t think I left out any steps. If I did, chime in folks.

 

[beaslbob]

Just another view for you to consider.
To me any enclosed environment (like our tanks) must have plant life to balance out the animal life.
So what I always recommend is you use algaes (like macro algaes) when you first startup the system. The same thing applies to live rock where the algae does the same thing.
Sure you have to protect the macros with some kind of refugium but that can be a simple tank partition to protect the macros from the fish and cleaner crews.
Then after the macros are growing nicely do the rest.
But that just me and my .02

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by beaslbob
http:///forum/post/3259423
Just another view for you to consider.
To me any enclosed environment (like our tanks) must have plant life to balance out the animal life.
So what I always recommend is you use algaes (like macro algaes) when you first startup the system. The same thing applies to live rock where the algae does the same thing.
Sure you have to protect the macros with some kind of refugium but that can be a simple tank partition to protect the macros from the fish and cleaner crews.
Then after the macros are growing nicely do the rest.
But that just me and my .02

For instructions on how to do this, and an in depth explanation, private message Beaslbob..It is a good idea but more advanced to try and understand. He is good at it. It is not necessary to start a tank, but in the long run easier to do it at the beginning when setting up the tank, if you decide to do so.

.

 

[mony97]

Hey Anthony, welcome to the boards..
These guys beat me to much of the info you need so thought I would add my little but of .02... First dont be scared of a SWT like Flower said these tanks are much easier to care for than most people think, and it is amazing to see first hand all the very symbiotic relationships between all marine life and how it can over time essentially take care of its self. Like Vinny said lots of LR and a good DSB (deep sand bed) will go a long ways in helping with this.. A CUC and some good filtration will help with a good chunk of the remaining bioload and waste. After all of this patience as stated is key!!! Do not rush things!! You will go through the different stages of a tank (mine was almost a perfect model of the different stages) first will be your cycle, than the diatoms come and go, and so on.. So keep posting, get a good book (I really like Bob Fenners The Consciences Marine Aquarist) and again be patient.. Good luck

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by mony97
http:///forum/post/3259444
Hey Anthony, welcome to the boards..
These guys beat me to much of the info you need so thought I would add my little but of .02... First dont be scared of a SWT like Flower said these tanks are much easier to care for than most people think, and it is amazing to see first hand all the very symbiotic relationships between all marine life and how it can over time essentially take care of its self. Like Vinny said lots of LR and a good DSB (deep sand bed) will go a long ways in helping with this.. A CUC and some good filtration will help with a good chunk of the remaining bioload and waste. After all of this patience as stated is key!!! Do not rush things!! You will go through the different stages of a tank (mine was almost a perfect model of the different stages) first will be your cycle, than the diatoms come and go, and so on.. So keep posting, get a good book (I really like Bob Fenners The Consciences Marine Aquarist) and again be patient.. Good luck

Perfect book selection...saltwater aquariums for dummies, is very good too.

 

[fishyscientist]

This is a very helpful thread for establishing a SW tank!! When I set up my own tank, I was planning on adding the CuC before the fish. Is this recommended? Also...if you do that, do you wait for another spike in ammonia and then return to 0 again before you add fish?

 

[mrdc]

I put in a small CUC after my cycle. I went small because I didn't think there would be much for them to eat. I guess if you put in a CUC and they start dieing, you will need to watch your ammonia level. Come to think about it...I think I put in 3 damsels with the CUC. Not sure if there is a right order ...

 

[meowzer]

Originally Posted by FishyScientist
http:///forum/post/3259551
This is a very helpful thread for establishing a SW tank!! When I set up my own tank, I was planning on adding the CuC before the fish. Is this recommended? Also...if you do that, do you wait for another spike in ammonia and then return to 0 again before you add fish?
YES, add your cuc after the initial cycle....test your water for a week to make sure there are no fluctuations, and if all stays well add your first fish.....take it slow....test waters....etc....

 

[fishyscientist]

Yes...I remember the last time I did this. Nothing tests the virtue of patience like this hobby!