Kalkwasser drip

trish&dave

trish&dave

Member
I have a question for the experts. We currently have a ATO feeding our refug. with a 5 gallon bucket of water. We have been adding Kalkwasser to the 5 gallon bucket to help stabalize our calcium levels. My main question is this: When adding the kalkwasser, should I be preparing the mix (I mix in a pitcher before adding to the 5 gallon bucket and let it sit overnight) as if I was making enough for the whole tank (56 gallon and a 20 gallon refug)? Currently we are adding only enough Kalk. that is equal to the amount of water in the bucket. I am beginning to believe we need to dose with more kalk.
We are having a tough time keeping our calcium levels up. Our Alk and Calc. are acting like a yo yo! One is up, the other is down. No balance. On Sat. our test had ALK at 4.0 mg/l and calcium between 325 and 350. We have been dosing with Kent liquid calc. and kent dkh in the morning and purple up and kent liquid reactor in the evening (along with the above Kalk drip). Last night we tested and ALK is at 2.7 mg/l and calcium is at 400.
This just seems like we are working WAY too hard to stabalized when the Kalk. is supposed to be a good additive that help keep you from having to dose regularly. Just though I would ask. All harmful (NO2&3, Amon.) are 0. SG & Sal are 1.025 and 32. Temp is 80-82. It is a reef tank with small frags (montis, acros, frogspawn, toadstool, mushrooms, zoos, etc.).
 
sly

sly

Active Member
I have experienced nothing but trouble out of purple up. Calcium, alk and magnesium all form a careful ionic balance in the tank. Also, if you add kalk too quickly it can actually cause the Calcium and Alkalinity in your tank to go DOWN instead of UP...
It sounds like you are massively overdosing your tank with chemicals. The simplest method might be to do a series of water changes to stabilize your tank and then only does kalk and forget the rest of the additives.
Do you notice any white, cloudy snow or precipitation in your tank?
PM me your email address and I'll send you an article on using Kalkwasser.
 
trish&dave

trish&dave

Member
Originally Posted by Sly
http:///forum/post/2576279
I have experienced nothing but trouble out of purple up. Calcium, alk and magnesium all form a careful ionic balance in the tank. It sounds like you are massively overdosing your tank with chemicals. The simplest method might be to do a series of water changes to stabilize your tank and then only does kalk and forget the rest of the additives.
I forgot to provide my Magnesium is low at 1125. We are adding Mg as well. We just purchase some Instant Ocean reef crystals that is supposed to have a better concentration of the necessary Cal., alk and mg versus the regular IO salt.
So how should I dose the 5 gallon bucket? Like I am treating 5 gallons or 56 gallons?
 
sly

sly

Active Member
PM me your email address... There are 2 ways I can think of to fix the problem. The hard way is to carefully dose everything such as calcium, magnesium and something to raise alk until you get them all back in balance... and the simple way is to do some water changes, quit dosing your tank with so many chemicals and then only dose small amounts of calcium and magnesium as your tank needs them.
I think the problem lies in how you are dosing kalkwasser. I don't dose kalk as I find just a simple calcium suppliment works just as well (and is a lot less complicated).
 
sly

sly

Active Member
You're welcome. :p Yes I would do a few water changes to get things stabilized again. There is a good thread here talking about the balance between calc, alk and magnesium.... I'll post it if I can find it.
 
spiderwoman

spiderwoman

Active Member
Too bad we can't release URL's here. I would have had the perfect *presentation* to guide you to that explains the balance between calc, alk, magnesium and Ph. One of our reef members gave that presentation a few years ago.
 
sly

sly

Active Member
Yes I agree... I emailed him an article explaining the chemistry behind kalkwasser. Hurdles, hurdles, hurdles.
 
trish&dave

trish&dave

Member
I have read several articles on the balance between the three, unfortunately my trouble is learning how to maintain the balance without overdosing the tank!
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Reaching that balance is the tricky part. I know that Dennis210 is struggling with very similar issues in his 210. The more SPS corals added to a system, the higher the absorption of calcium and the harder it is to maintain calcium levels. In regards to your question on the five gallon bucket, you can only add enough Kalc to treat the five gallon bucket of water, not the whole system. Adding Kalc above the absorption capacity of the water will simply result in the excess Kalc settling out as a precipitate in the bottom of your bucket, and will most likely, as Sly indicated have an adverse effect on the parameters of your tank.
 
spiderwoman

spiderwoman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2576711
Reaching that balance is the tricky part. I know that Dennis210 is struggling with very similar issues in his 210. The more SPS corals added to a system, the higher the absorption of calcium and the harder it is to maintain calcium levels. In regards to your question on the five gallon bucket, you can only add enough Kalc to treat the five gallon bucket of water, not the whole system. Adding Kalc above the absorption capacity of the water will simply result in the excess Kalc settling out as a precipitate in the bottom of your bucket, and will most likely, as Sly indicated have an adverse effect on the parameters of your tank.
That is so true. Most larger SPS tanks run a calcium reactor with Ph monitoring. That is what we'll be setting up for our 150. I have a LifeReef LCR1 calcium reactor waiting for the system to come in hopefully by the end of this week, latest on Monday.
 
trish&dave

trish&dave

Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2576711
Reaching that balance is the tricky part. I know that Dennis210 is struggling with very similar issues in his 210. The more SPS corals added to a system, the higher the absorption of calcium and the harder it is to maintain calcium levels. In regards to your question on the five gallon bucket, you can only add enough Kalc to treat the five gallon bucket of water, not the whole system. Adding Kalc above the absorption capacity of the water will simply result in the excess Kalc settling out as a precipitate in the bottom of your bucket, and will most likely, as Sly indicated have an adverse effect on the parameters of your tank.
I think I am going to try the vinegar mix next. I am going to read a little more about it before doing it. For now, I think I am going to do water changes. Do you think two 20% water changes (Sat. and Sun.) over the weekend would be too much? Or should I do two 10%?
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2576730
I think I am going to try the vinegar mix next. I am going to read a little more about it before doing it. For now, I think I am going to do water changes. Do you think two 20% water changes (Sat. and Sun.) over the weekend would be too much? Or should I do two 10%?
I would think that 40% of your water changed out over a two day period is a lot, not only that, but its going to get expensive pretty fast, especially if we're talking a large volume of water. If your going to do to water changes in a week, I would suggest only 10% each time and space them apart (i.e. weekend and midweek), thats going to help parameters stay more consistent over the course of the week.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Tell me more about how your ATO works. How much water does it dose at a time? Does it drip all day or does it add a gallon when the water level in the sump is low?
If you add more lime than what will dissolve to your topoff bucket it will just harmlessly fall to the bottom and remain undissolved until you add more water to the bucket.
My homemade ATO is a 40 gallon container. I add an entire pound of lime to the container and it dissolves as needed. About once a month I clean the entire system and start over.
 
trish&dave

trish&dave

Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2576803
Tell me more about how your ATO works. How much water does it dose at a time? Does it drip all day or does it add a gallon when the water level in the sump is low?
If you add more lime than what will dissolve to your topoff bucket it will just harmlessly fall to the bottom and remain undissolved until you add more water to the bucket.
My homemade ATO is a 40 gallon container. I add an entire pound of lime to the container and it dissolves as needed. About once a month I clean the entire system and start over.
I have the ATO set up where it only doses with probably less than a cup each time it evaporates. We probably go through 5 gallons every other day.
What I typically do is get a quart pitcher, add 10 teaspoons to the quart and give it a good stir. Let it sit for 2 hours and stir again. Then let it sit another hour and only put in the dissolved portion of the mix into our 5 gallon bucket.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2576863
I have the ATO set up where it only doses with probably less than a cup each time it evaporates. We probably go through 5 gallons every other day.
What I typically do is get a quart pitcher, add 10 teaspoons to the quart and give it a good stir. Let it sit for 2 hours and stir again. Then let it sit another hour and only put in the dissolved portion of the mix into our 5 gallon bucket.
That could work out just fine but skip the second stir and use less lime if you're only mixing a quart. Carbon dioxide is bad for limewater and the second stir and the pour are degrading the limewater by introducing more CO2.
It it were me.....
I'd add the 10 teaspoons to the 5 gallon bucket, stir briefly and then just leave it. Just make sure the ATO doesn't pull from the bottom of the bucket.
 
chilwil84

chilwil84

Active Member
think bang guy has it down to the simplest method. as saiid earlier anything other than calcium, alk, and mag other elements can easily be replaced with water changes. if you feel the irge to go the calcium reactor way all additive shouldnt be needed because you are dissolving coral and releasing what made them (some large sps tanks will need more but when you get to that level you will know you need them)
 
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