Kordon's Ich Attack

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Scuba,
Fifth, I am concerned as to where you get your information that marine ich is not a rare occurance in the ocean. The reason it is a rare occurance is because the ocean is a much larger system then any sized aquarium. Ich thrives in the small closed enviroments we keep our fish in but it does not THRIVE in the ocean. Yes it is present in the ocean and it hitches its way into our aquariums where suddenly it becomes a major problem. My point in what I was saying is that in the ocean it is not the same problem it is in our tanks therefore little focus is spent on focusing on marine ich in the ocean. So I continue to consider marine ich to be a minor problem and a rare occurance in the ocean.
.
You stated ich is rare in the ocean... yet you state this is how it enters closed systems. Rare means hard to find yet it easily finds its way into closed marine systems. No, it is not found in high levels in the ocean and it usually does not reach deadly levels in the ocean. My definition or rare and yours differs. youa re correct now that you have qualified your statement
For the last point I will make...it is up to manufacturers to test and prove their products do what they say. It should not be left up to hobbyists to conduct the manufacturers R & D based on post-production research. They have a responsibility to the ainimals they claim can be cured using their product and the hobbyist that purchase their mixtures to provide this information. Thier refusal to do so..or to even provide a list of ingredients in some cases should be cause for concern.
it is quite easy to do...but they would prefer to suck the money from hobbyisits and make claims they know are false.
No., I will not use any product in one of my systems without knowing the various pros and cons.
lastly, next time you vist a lfs check out the price of kick ich. Also, money lost on these products in fish death and system damage can be high.
yes, I get my information from several sources and based on 30 plus years in the hobby. Therefore, my opinions are informed.
I have said all that can be said regarding thse useless products.
use them..if you beleive they work then great. But, use them knowing there is nothing to support claims on the bottle.
I tap my dog on the nose with a newspaper every night for the past six years. I have not lost a fish so I continue to do so...knowing this is the magic cure. This is about as effective as the miraacle water.
later folks...put a fork in me...I'm done

 

[jerthunter]

Heh, I've read about some people using pepper and ginger. I thought it was amusing. but you are right Beth, I should be more careful because I do not want to lead anyone astray. I like fish and hate to see them suffer. I lost my very first fish I ever had to ich and I know it sucks...
Here he is, my first fish. Poor little guy died a horrible death because I was uninformed.

 

[beth]

Its a progress in motion...the learning exp that goes on in this hobby. Any non-hobbyist who'd read these forum would think we are all NUTS to be so passionate about FISH!
Scuba, you're not toast, ....you've been a real asset to the forums and helped me out a lot in the Disease Forum!

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Beth
Here is the problem that I perceive with this level of "sharing". People who come here, or any forum, with an ich problem are desperately looking for a solution. They are upset, they are scared, they are fearful that they are going to have a disaster on their hands and they have good reason to fear because they do have a big problem.
They see something that says reef safes "may" work, and see other hobbyists suggesting that they may work. Bang. That person, who would rather give up their first born rather than have to dismantle their reef tank to QT fish [ok, I'm exaggerating about the "first born" but not by much. LOL], reads that and breaths a sigh of relief. The answer is in a bottle and the bottle is "reef safe". They use it. It doesn't work and now all their fish are still sick and worse, or all the fish have been wiped out, dead. Useless. The tank crashes because of the fish death, and possible because of an unknown medication that has been added to the aquaria.
As hobbyists in the open forums we have a responsibility to deal with certain subjects, life and death subjects, in ways that take into acct more than just a "fun debate" or idle discussion. In this case, causal remakes about herbals could result in disaster for an unsuspecting hobbyist.
Of course I am aware of all the methods [effective and not effective] of addressing ich, including pepper, garlic, daily water changes and even ginger! Someone shoot me if I start taking about ginger in the Disease Forum though. I don't want any hobbyist to come away with any treatment option except what works. Hyposalinity is the best treatment we have for ich, and it works if done correctly. There is good data on that, but you have to buy some expensive books to read it!
No need to defend yourself. Its been a good discussion.
beth and the problem is as you well know...a reef safe product that does not involve catching, removal of fish and set-up of a QT system sounds more appealing. You mean..I can drop some of this in my system and it works? These producers also take advantage of our busy schedule and to some extent laziness. They use catch phrases such as "reef safe" , 'all natural", "organic".
lastly, I am convinced folks will selectively weed out responses. This is why I ALWAYS state these miracle cures do not work...and provide documetation as to why.
I invite anyone that has ifo to the contrary to post it so I can learn about the recent discovery.
I do not deal in specualtion.....that is up to others.
Now...the fork is in...I'm done

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
beth and the problem is as you well know...a reef safe product that does not involve catching, removal of fish and set-up of a QT system sounds more appealing. You mean..I can drop some of this in my system and it works? These producers also take advantage of our busy schedule and to some extent laziness. They use catch phrases such as "reef safe" , 'all natural", "organic".
lastly, I am convinced folks will selectively weed out responses. This is why I ALWAYS state these miracle cures do not work...and provide documetation as to why.
I invite anyone that has ifo to the contrary to post it so I can learn about the recent discovery.
I do not deal in specualtion.....that is up to others.
Now...the fork is in...I'm done
Done with the thread

 

[beth]

People do weed out info, or just glance over info and then do the wrong thing. Many times, it is just the fear of dismantling the tank, the unknowns of taking apart the aquaria, etc., that makes the cure all bottle so appealing. Until it fails.
Lets face it, many hobbyists are just marginally managing their tanks to begin with.
The answer is not in a bottle, but to set up a quarantine tank and put all new fish in the QT. No one will ever have to worry about plagues in their tanks if they will just QT First.