last resort...

[monalisa]

Ugh, this has been a crappy month or so. The 2 little horses from SWF.com didn't make it, one got stuck in some live rock and couldn't get out, and other one...IDK, just gone. This morning I found Inca dead. I don't know what happened there either, she was out and about yesterday when I got home from work...she ate supper and was fine. This morning, she was gone. Her skin looked perfectly normal, so IDK. So, at this point Navajo has the tank to herself...not that she's that thrilled about that.
This morning as a last resort for cleaning the hair algae (fallout from feeding the tank when Apache was having troubles) I pulled out all of the fake plants and replaced those. It looks like a brand new tank again, and it seems like Navajo approves of the update. I also did a water change and cleaned the equipment. Navajo is chilling under blues for the afternoon. I plan on doing smaller water changes, every week to week and a half to keep the water at an even keel...I don't know what else to do.
Oh, and I just ordered some new tank mates...sorry, I know you're thinking WHAT???...but Navajo needs company. I ordered from SWF.com again, I trust them...2 yellow kudas and 1 black kuda (like Navajo). This is the last time I'm purchasing seahorses.
Lisa

 

[teresaq]

Sorry for your losses. I understand. The more I think about it, The more I am thinking about not replaceing mine.
good luck with the new ones.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2454262
Sorry for your losses. I understand. The more I think about it, The more I am thinking about not replaceing mine.
good luck with the new ones.
Have you had problems too?
Lisa

 

[teresaq]

Just the three I lost last yr. Its just to heart breaking.

 

[monalisa]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2454275
Just the three I lost last yr. Its just to heart breaking.
That's for sure!! One thought that I've had regarding my tank is that the hair algea, and the caulerpa as well, was maybe sucking too much O2 out of the tank. I also pulled a huge bunch of caulerpa out of my sh tank during the clean up this morning (just by pulling out one of the pockets). As stated before, it looks like a new tank, and Navajo is out and exploring like she hasn't for a long time...now to keep her healthy and eating so she can help me out with the new little ones this coming week. *fingers crossed* *prayers said*
Lisa

 

[monalisa]

My hubby just got home and looked at the changes in the sh tank. He thinks it looks great, but he also lamented that Navajo is the only one in there...I told him I ordered the new additions...he's ALL for it!!
Navajo is looking for her supper already...she's awesome. Even with all the action in her tank this morning, she just goes about her business...actually I think she welcomes the intrusion it takes to clean up her environment...I know I would LOVE a cleaning lady for my environment!! Haha.
Lisa

 

[poniegirl]

Call me crazy, but having also experienced the heart break of losing seahorse pets I would suggest getting Navajo a fish to play with. A smimming one, something to liven things up just a touch, not just someone that hangs out below.
You might be pleasantly surprised about the change in everyone's heart. Seahorses are very curious, social animals and will not be frightened of a reasonable tank mate.
There are some very nice options.

 

[nybutterfly03]

So sorry to hear about your losses.

((((((HUGS

))
Good luck with the new additions.....I ordered 2 of the yellow myself.....they should arrive Wed.
Keep us posed!!!!!

 

[zeke92]

sorry to here that. good luck with your decisions and keep us posted.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by MonaLisa
http:///forum/post/2454251
Ugh, this has been a crappy month or so. The 2 little horses from SWF.com didn't make it, one got stuck in some live rock and couldn't get out, and other one...IDK, just gone. This morning I found Inca dead. I don't know what happened there either, she was out and about yesterday when I got home from work...she ate supper and was fine. This morning, she was gone. Her skin looked perfectly normal, so IDK. So, at this point Navajo has the tank to herself...not that she's that thrilled about that.
This morning as a last resort for cleaning the hair algae (fallout from feeding the tank when Apache was having troubles) I pulled out all of the fake plants and replaced those. It looks like a brand new tank again, and it seems like Navajo approves of the update. I also did a water change and cleaned the equipment. Navajo is chilling under blues for the afternoon. I plan on doing smaller water changes, every week to week and a half to keep the water at an even keel...I don't know what else to do.
Oh, and I just ordered some new tank mates...sorry, I know you're thinking WHAT???...but Navajo needs company. I ordered from SWF.com again, I trust them...2 yellow kudas and 1 black kuda (like Navajo). This is the last time I'm purchasing seahorses.
Lisa
I think we have all been running into these mysterious problems. If you would be willing Lisa, could you complete and post(as many as possible):
complete water quality test from you seahorse tank
What type of substrate
Live and Artificial Plants/Rocks
Corals
Filters and Filter matter
Cleaning Schedule
Food and Food enhancers
Feeding times once? twice a day?
Do you use RO water?
How long is your light on
Temp of tank
How old is the tank
What type of pods
What types of algae
What kind of heater? Is it in the tank or filter?
What kind of stress Zyme?
Water Conditioners?
I realize this is a huge list, but there has got to be something we are all missing. A healthy fish doesn't just go belly up over night.
I'm so sorry, this has got to be very stressful for you Lisa, I'm sorry for you loss.
When my Dwarf Seahorse Tank crashed the only thing I found lacking was the PH. Instead of 8.3 it was 7.9 , but I do not believe that would be the cause for %100 death total. I did dust earlier that day, but I am always careful not to use or spray near the tanks.
Another thought, all animals need sleep. Are we some how not allowing/giving the seahorses enough rest time? Do our room lights effect the quality of their sleep? I know I can't sleep unless it is completely dark. Do our activities around the tank effect their sleep?
I know Titan was ticked when I woke him up that one day.
When underwater, how long is the daytime hours? Our lights cannot mimic the natural sunlight that beats down on the ocean, so to give our reef tanks enough light we leave our tank lights on longer.
In nature every day is not a sunny day. Water flow changes constantly. Which leads to dead areas in our tanks. As we all know these areas acumulate, and become death traps.
Nutrition is my #1 suspect for the death toll of seahorses. But not in these recent cases. What nutrients are we providing for our seahorses?
Alright SWF Seahorse Team!!!!!!! Time to kick some Fin!!!!!!!!!

~Rykna

 

[1journeyman]

Good luck figuring this out folks. Sorry for your losses.
I can't add much except to say I've seen Horses on wall dives in Cozumel. There was an extreme current, and the reef gets light at least 10 hours a day. Direct, bright light for probably 4-5 hours a day.
Rykna, you're probably on to something long term with diet. That should be explored more. For overnight deaths, however, I always suspect falling 02. Especially is you are seeing falling pH as well. Are your horse tanks covered?

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2455454
Good luck figuring this out folks. Sorry for your losses.
I can't add much except to say I've seen Horses on wall dives in Cozumel. There was an extreme current, and the reef gets light at least 10 hours a day. Direct, bright light for probably 4-5 hours a day.
Rykna, you're probably on to something long term with diet. That should be explored more. For overnight deaths, however, I always suspect falling 02. Especially is you are seeing falling pH as well. Are your horse tanks covered?
Thanks 1journeyman

Summary from 1journeyman:
Seahorses in Cozumel~
Extreme Current
Reef receives aprox~ 10 hours a day/4-5 are most likely Direct, bright light
Long Term Diet: lacking nutrition?lacking variety?lacking in total food consumption?
Overnight deaths: falling levels will cause TTD(total tank death)
Are your tanks covered?
(Rykna)My seahorse tanks are only partially covered by the light unit, other than that they are open. I have always left my saltwater tanks uncovered do to the rising temps caused by the lights, however, this does allow for foreign bodies to enter the tank, no matter how careful we are.
1journeyman's input leads me to eliminate the following from problem sources:
ELIMINATED:
1.) Lighting
2.) Excessive current causing stress
3.) Type of Substrate
My current List of possible causes of Death:
1.) Filter matter
2.) Cleaning Schedule; are we cleaning enough or too much?
3.) Diet
4.) Water quality and level fluctuations
5.)Temp of tank
6.) age of tank
7.) Tank Canopy; what effects does not having a cover have on our tanks?
8.) Our living environment conflicting with the seahorses, causing more stress
More input!!!!

Lisa? Luke? Alaina???? Let's see here...Susan..Zeke...and many others!!!!

 

[rykna]

I borrowed this from Zeke:
Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2455267
ok, well i've never minded hair algae but it's growing all over my fake plants and caulerpa and looks terrible.
and could it take stuff out of the water that could affect the horses? just wondering.
anyway, how can i get rid of it? i have a conch and it cleans the ground great but he can't climb. especially fake plants.
what should i do? it's all over the plants in the horse tank. how have you guys gotten rid of it in your experiences?
Unwanted algae is caused by old bulbs(they prefer lower light spectrums),
also over feeding which causes Higher Nitrates, Higher Nitrites
Which would lead to stress do to bad water quality and level changes in you tank.
Which would lead to a certain cause of death.

 

[zeke92]

as i posted the parameters were PERFECT.
i think your right, were missing something.
possibilities i've thought of:
1. Our live plants taking too much of something out of the water.
2. Some sort of small thing that looks like a copepod but isn't? just a thought
possibilities i agree with:
everything you posted..
so, lets all work together, and see if we can find out why we are loosing horses.
maby we could all do different thigns? one person try lots of different foods, add brine shrimp, mysis, all sorts of foods they can eat that can be helpful. another person clean nasty crap out of there tank every single week?
idk, just thinking of ideas. something to find out what we are doing wrong.

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by zeke92
http:///forum/post/2455665
as i posted the parameters were PERFECT.
i think your right, were missing something.
possibilities i've thought of:
1. Our live plants taking too much of something out of the water.
2. Some sort of small thing that looks like a copepod but isn't? just a thought
so, lets all work together, and see if we can find out why we are loosing horses.
maby we could all do different thigns? one person try lots of different foods, add brine shrimp, mysis, all sorts of foods they can eat that can be helpful. another person clean nasty crap out of there tank every single week?
idk, just thinking of ideas. something to find out what we are doing wrong.

1. Our live plants taking too much of something out of the water.
Live plants use chlorophyll to grow. They take carbon dioxide out of the air/water and release oxygen...which is a benefit in your tank, however, live plants do require nutrients/minerals from the soil. If our live plants are flourishing does that mean that there are too much nutrients caused by poor water quality and excess waste matter in our tanks?
2. Some sort of small thing that looks like a copepod but isn't? just a thought
The bad pod is the Isopod, which grow to 3 inches. They would be very easy to spot. But there are other tiny pests.
Great input, thanks zeke

 

[1journeyman]

Rykna, don't forget, plants only absorb carbon dioxide and expell oxygen during photosynthesis. During dark periods, plants actually reverse this and absorb oxygen while expelling CO2.
Water temp on reef was 82-83 degrees. I would think it is safe to assume they need reef quality water.

 

[ophiura]

We do have to consider also that not all species of seahorses are the same, so I wouldn't be quick to eliminate some factors (eg current, temperature, etc).
I am very concerned about the algae issue, and any issues with pH. I would post all parameters, because more than once I've seen people say the parameters are perfect, but they are only talking about ammonia and something else. I would post pH, alkalinity and calcium and all others, and ideally two pH readings (at end of day and in the morning) to get an idea of the fluctuation.
Long term dietary concerns would definitely be potential issues. Does everybody gut load what they are feeding? How diverse? I would at a minimum expect a regular rotation of gut loaded brine, mysis and small ghost shrimp..ideally combined with a natural source of amphipods, etc.
Sudden unexpected overnight deaths can be associated with either oxygen issues (also tied to pH/alkalinity), or poisoning. Do these tanks have sump/refugium systems that would improve oxygenation...or skimmers? I would pay very careful attention to anything done in the tank the night before, or any cleaning etc in the home.
I would also research local sources of seahorses, ideally places that will allow you to monitor those horses for a little while. Shipping is rough on any fish, but surely on seahorses.

 

[zeke92]

i am gonna get my water tested for everything i don't have a test for, like calcium and stuff. everything else is posted on my thread.
i feed them occasional brine shrimp and they eat tons of pods throughout the day. i feed them mysis shrimp with liquid garlic 3 times a day. 2 if i can't be there. is that not good nuff?
but i agree with ophiura, i do feel algae has something to do with it.
skimmers running 24/7 can't harm anything can it? as long as you dont see big spikes or anything, like bacteria dying out from lack of ammonia to feed on, right? i leave mine on all the time to keep oxygen levels up and stuff.

 

[ophiura]

Algae has something to do with it in large part because the algae is indicative of a water quality issue, as well as what Journeyman described.
A skimmer running on the system is not an issue, and IMO should be run pretty much all the time. The comment about bacteria and ammonia has nothing to do with running the skimmer and is simply not an issue on a tank that has a bioload.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/2455805
We do have to consider also that not all species of seahorses are the same, so I wouldn't be quick to eliminate some factors (eg current, temperature, etc).....
Totally agree with that. That's why I mentioned where I was diving. I can only speak to the species found off the Mexican coast in the Carribean.