last resort...

[monalisa]

The little yellow kuda did not make it...she was pretty much DOA, and I have her processed and ready to send back to SWF.com.
The other 2 horses are actually doing quite nicely, and I'm glad. Navajo is out and eager to find out what all the fuss is about.
Pictures when I can.
Lisa

 

[poniegirl]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
http:///forum/post/2458195
ok, I have been talking to some very experianced keepers, and all or at least most of them tell me they keep open end air lines in thier tanks. here is one responce
I use an open airline in all of my tanks to increase oxygen saturation, increase surface turbulance to help release nitrogen and keep the pH more stable. My seahorses also use the airline as their favorite hitch (they sleep on it nightly all in a row) and some seahorses love to play in the bubbles. IME an open airline is basic but essential equipment.
T
This seahorse did love the bubbles....
I have a 55g, which are long and narrow. It is almost impossible to cure all dead spots. I had a bubble bar (how old, I know!) and its function was to circulate the water front to back. It did a fabulous job, made the live rock pay its way and the effect was nice.
I ran it once or twice a day, as I said, it had a function.
I kept 2 seahorses in the tank for several years (the one pictured lived with me 4 years).

 

[monalisa]

I've noticed Navajo take advantage of the new bubbles in the tank. She seems to enjoy the new movement and has had a couple of "spa" treatments already.
So far my new little ones are doing great, the yellow kuda is exploring the tank like crazy, and the black one is just kinda hanging out, but I've seen both of them snick a few times...good to see.
Lisa

 

[rykna]

Great to hear Lisa!!!!

 

[koi lady]

I am doing an experiment. I have taken my horse tank parameters this morning and will do so again tonight before feeding and lights out. I am then going to put in an air stone and test again tomorrow morning and night. I'll see if there is a difference and post my results.

Hope this will help.

 

[zeke92]

Something my LFS person said (my favorite guy) is to make sure your protein skimmer, if you have one, is running strong enough to be pulling a bunch of the water/proteins out. mine was just pulling dried brown crap so he said to put up the airflow and we will see how it helps.
also i found out because my hydrometer is old that my salinity is off....1.029......nuff said.
i'm taking it in tomorrow and he is gonna calibrate it. i'm doing a 5 gallon water change tonight and another tomorrow as he suggested to get it at 1.024.
i also bought an emperor 280 filter

hopefully all of this will help out my problems.
also adding an airline to the hole of your powerheads adds air to the powerhead's output. doing that may be better then just putting an airline in the tank, it will spread out the air and push it through the water instead of just letting it float to the surface. most powerheads have a hole at the top or somewhere to put an airline in.
NOTE: paragraphs highlighted in blue have info that may help your tank.

 

[ci11337]

Just a thought here, you guys are saying that the plants in your tank are sucking up O2 right, I thought plants take in CO2 and give off O2

 

[rykna]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2457867
Well, tall tanks have low surface to volume ratios to begin with. I've been looking at pics around the web and it seems those are the preferred tanks. I'm really anxious to start getting numbers from people to explore this more.
Proper gas exchange takes place at the surface of your tank, in a splashing, flowing sump or refugium, in a skimmer, etc. Slow moving (lack of surface agitation), tall, planted tanks are ripe for oxygen depletion at night.
Pass the word to have folks start checking their pH in the morning. A lower than normal pH in the morning (just as lights come on) is a sure sign of too much CO2.
As for symptoms... no idea in a seahorse as I've never kept one. Again, however, if the death is occurring overnight, to what appears to be a healthy horse, leads me to think it's O2 related.
Oxygen exchange, is decreased by many things, but these 2 major items~ tank surface area and water flow. Are a concern I've had in my seahorse tanks.
As you commented
~Proper gas exchange takes place at the surface of your tank, in a splashing, flowing sump or refugium, in a skimmer, etc. Slow moving (lack of surface agitation), tall, planted tanks are ripe for oxygen depletion at night.~
My tanks have always have a large amount of live plants/algae. That seem to flourish for a while....and then have periods of declining and regrowing. I've also been struggling with how to get enough surface agitation. Since I first kept seahorses I have been constructing new types of spray bars to get more agitation with out blowing the horses out of the tank. I have seen the unwanted glassy surface that reminds you of a dirty puddle.
The thing that puzzles me the most is, a fish gasping for air is obvious. They tend to hover low in the tank and their gapping gills open wider as the oxygen content goes down. My seahorses that passed away over night showed no signs of stress what so ever. Although this is a characteristic that wild animals have~show no pain or sickness...this signals weakness and vuneralbilty in the wild.
I have examined the bodies. No sign of parasites..injuries...nothing.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by ci11337
http:///forum/post/2460542
Just a thought here, you guys are saying that the plants in your tank are sucking up O2 right, I thought plants take in CO2 and give off O2

Only during photsynthesis do plants give off O2. That's why it gets bad at night, when photosynthesis shuts down and the respiration reverses.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Rykna
http:///forum/post/2460759
... My tanks have always have a large amount of live plants/algae. That seem to flourish for a while....and then have periods of declining and regrowing. I've also been struggling with how to get enough surface agitation. Since I first kept seahorses I have been constructing new types of spray bars to get more agitation with out blowing the horses out of the tank. I have seen the unwanted glassy surface that reminds you of a dirty puddle.
The thing that puzzles me the most is, a fish gasping for air is obvious. They tend to hover low in the tank and their gapping gills open wider as the oxygen content goes down. My seahorses that passed away over night showed no signs of stress what so ever. Although this is a characteristic that wild animals have~show no pain or sickness...this signals weakness and vuneralbilty in the wild.
I have examined the bodies. No sign of parasites..injuries...nothing.

The easiest way to get good surface agitation is to point a powerhead upwards toward the surface.
During the night you may not be observing the horses to see if they are in distress because you are asleep yourself

 

[koi lady]

Ok. Here are my parameters from the last two days.
Lights on at 0900 and compacts off at 1800 and actinics off at 1900.
2/6 0930
Temp: 75.4
S.G.: 1.025
Salinity: 35
pH: 7.8
Alk: 5.71
KH: 16
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
Calcium: 355
Phosphate: .025
Magnesium: 1275
2/6 1730
Temp: 75.8
S.G.: 1.025
Salinity: 35
pH: 8.4
Alk: 5.71
KH: 16
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
Calcium: 435
Phosphate: .025
Magnesium: 1290
1830 put airstone in and within 2 minutes my Reidi male was next to the bubbles.
The tank looks like a carbonated drink. Fizzy bubbles popping bubbles up onto the light cover.
2/7 1030
Temp: 75.4
S.G. 1.026
Salinity: 36
pH: 8.4
Alk: 5.71
KH: 16
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
Calcium: 395
Phosphate: .025
Magnesium: 1215
2.7 1710
Temp: 76.5
S.G. 1.025
Salinity: 35
pH: 8.4
Alk: 5.71
KH: 16
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
Calcium: 380
Phosphate: .025
Magnesium: 1155
I am putting this up as I am brewing a batch of saltwater to change the nasty nitrates and phosphates water. It is interesting just how many things change and don't change from morning to night and day to day. I have been fighting a running battle with the KH and Alk in both my tanks. Water changes don't seem to help, but I have been told to get my Mag and Calcium up and the other should come down. I am working on that. And I know that the Nitrates are from to much feeding. I am trying to train the little seahorses to the bowl, but they are refusing right now. So I will just try to keep the level around 20.

 

[1journeyman]

The biggest "tell" to me in that post was the huge swing in pH. That was clearly an unhealthy swing and a clear indication O2 was greatly depleted at night.

 

[poniegirl]

"There are still many unanswered questions about the seahorse. Currently, scientists believe their lifespan to range from 1 to 4 years. They are difficult to find and hard to study because they are so good at camouflaging themselves. Seahorses are voracious predators who rely wholly on live, moving food. They catch moving food by sucking it through their bony snout with a rapid snap of the head. They consume up to 3,000 brine shrimp per day by swallowing them whole because they have no teeth. They must consume such large quantities to compensate for their rapid and inefficient digestion."
I'll be happy to ID the source of this quote if allowed.
If a home aquarium has a population of natural food that the seahorse must hunt, and the live food source is suplimented by frozen 2 or 3 times daily, water quality shouldn't suffer.
If a seahorse gorges on feed 2 or three times daily, he will literally waste the food due to quick, inefficient digestion. This waste will deteriorate water quality. The seahorse will not be nutritionally benefited by the gorging because he cannot store the nutrients. In one end out the other.
If the natural live food population is not abundant, I think the best thing is to allow the food to scatter so the seahorse will have an opportunity to process the food as he consumes it.
I don't believe there is one answer to the question of what happens when seahorses don't thrive. It is important to understand the nature of the animal and the world they come from.
Captive bred is all well and good, but they are what they were designed to be...insect control.

 

[zeke92]

when i get new horses i'm debating on using a dish or...
not using a dish and only feeding smaller amounts more often. like instead of two large quantities in the day int he dish have a few feedings of a bit of foods just scattered in the tank.
if ammonia or nitrites go up, increase your clean up crew. this would be do-able without problems right? recreation may be good for horses, for them to hunt for the mysis instead of hopping into a dish. as long as we can increase our clean up crew or lower the food until we have the right amount of food and clean up to be fine without any problems of left over food.