lets here it for bush

aanthony

Member
Bush is a retard, he thinks iraq is such a threat, and thought sadamm was going to kill him, this is coming from a guy who nearly died from a pretzel, i dont want to badmouth america but seriously, saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and you went into iraq to destroy his weapons of mass destruction by blowing innocent people up with your weapons of mass destruction, i dont really care though, im from canada, and because of your fallen economy i can buy things much cheaper in america.
 

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by AAnthony
im from canada, and because of your fallen economy i can buy things much cheaper in america.

I think you are out of touch on our economic numbers. We do appreciate you supporting our economy with your purchases. BUY AMERICAN!
 

shogun323

Active Member
Originally Posted by AAnthony
the thing is i never did badmouth america, i said i didnt want to, and i didn't.
So are you saying that since you prefaced your statements with "i dont want to badmouth america but " that it cancels out the offensiveness of the statements that follows? Nice!!
That's like going up to someone and saying, "no offense but, your'e fat" and then being shocked when they are offended. How can they be offended?After all you prefaced it, right? I love that.
 

1knight164

Member
Watson, Journeyman, Phixer, Mr Guitar, IndyDirk and others, thanks for keeping up the fight. (Hot883, I can understand why you're taking a backseat to this one). Took me all night to read all the posts and not much more I can add to what you all have said. Seems to me we had this discussion in another thread.
It is unfortunate that we and the general public are not privy to all the information available to politicians and the Pentagon, information that would probably give us all a better insight as to why some of these seemingly senseless decisions are made. Instead, we are at the mercy of the media. Sad. Does everyone remember "War of the Worlds"? I'm talking about the radio broadcast, not the movie with Tom Cuise. Talk about power.
Iraq civilian death rate 5.49% 2005 (CIA Worldfact Book)
US Murder rate 5.6% 2005 (fbi.gov)
(i'm no statistician and don't know if this is a fair comparison)
Hmmmmm. That's Iraqi's death rate, both natural and unnatural, compared to just homicides in the US. I can honestly say that I feel safer driving down the streets of Fallujah than I do driving down the streets of Compton or Watts (I apologize if I offend anyone from that area, JMHO). BTW, I have done both. Bahgdad's a different story. Pucker factor is much higher.
Iraq is a huge country. The majority of the violence is concentrated in the Al Anbar province, and mostly in Bahgdad. Seems we've got a handle on Fallujah and Ramadi for the most part. So when the public hears about violence in Iraq, it seems they get the impression that the whole country is falling apart. It's similar to when we had the riots in LA. (I was on my way to Dodger game when I saw the fires) Those not there and familiar with our country believed that LA, if not the entire state, was out of control. Being in an aviation unit, I get to fly over the country and see a larger picture. From what I see, rural Iraq is benefiting in the post Saddam era. Farmers tilling their fields, shepherds tending to their animals, kids playing all waving as we flew overhead. My point being, 10% of the country is a poor representation of the overall state of the country.
 

1knight164

Member
I just got off the USS Bonhomme Richard. For those who haven't heard, that was the ship that lost the 4 sailors in the helo crash recently. The sailors from that detachment (they were our Search and Rescue detachment) were given the opportunity to back out of the upcoming deployment as a unit and even on an individual basis. No one did. They chose to continue on and go in harms way, even after the tragic event. My hats off to them. I also spoke with many Marines who are going again for their third and fourth time (it will be three for me) and ask them why? Why not just get out? Answers vary, but the majority are in it to win. They won't quit until they are forced to regardless of the death toll on the military. A good friend of mine is the Ops chief of the Marine Special Forces (they replaced Forced Recon but are the same people with more specialized training) and he says his Marines are highly motivated and didn't join just to sit on the sidelines. For the most part, they all wished that the media would butt out and the politicians stop trying to run this war. They see them as "aiding and abetting the enemy" and making our jobs tougher. Didn't an Al Qaida spokesman release a message stating something like "Democrats, you didn't win the election. We won it for you" or something to that effect referring to the Congress? You know Al Qaida was thrilled.
As for me, I stayed in because I want my daughter to be able to travel the world without the fear of some extremist nutcase targeting Americans for "martyrdom, 70 virgins, and a fat paycheck for their families".
We can't win if our hands are tied. Many of the Marines I spoke to wish we were still fighting with WWII rules of engagement and lack of media because they (and I) believe we'd be in a far better position today than we are now without their interference. Fear is a powerful weapon and a weapon that the insurgents respect. When we cannot unleash it, no holds barred and under the same rules the insurgents play by, we only give enemy hope.
Phixer, I was there for the USS Cole also and was very disappointed at our response. We transported the bodies as well as the investigators too and from the ship. It was a sad day when they told us that we could not fly into that terrorist bastion, Yemen, with our weapons!!! Yet, flying into country, every gun was pointed at the defenseless aircraft!!! Our own ambassador seemed to have sided with the Yemenis (terrorists) and wanted us out quickly.
And i'm ticked at the politicians who, in their infinite wisdom decided to reduce the size of the military and rely on technology to win our wars. Nothing short of robots/cyborgs can replace boots on the ground, and you cannot win a war without that infantryman taking physical control of real estate. Now we're playing catch-up and although we are ramping up the Army and the Marine Corps, it may be too late. Takes a lot of time to get those numbers because of boot camp, training, etc.
No war is perfect and predictable as mentioned in earlier posts. Those who best improvise, adapt and overcome obstacles succeed. President Bush is doing just that. I believe that he understands he has made mistakes and is readjusting to meet the current situation. To stick to plan and not be flexible is a formula for failure.
Bush deserves credit for having a spine and not folding while facing falling public support, an out of control media, and an opposing party that seems to be doing nothing but helping the enemy and having no solutions of their own. Many would have folded basing their opinions and decision on polls and re-election IMO. He deserves credit for taking action and being pro-active instead of reactive in dealing with the imminent threat and finally telling the insurgents that we aren't a bunch of pansies. Those who believe that if we leave the insurgents alone, they'll leave us alone are foolish. Ask the Spanish. The ultimate goal of the insurgents is one religion at all costs. Like Journyman has mentioned many times, better in their backyard than ours because believe me, if we weren't there, they would be here.
 

1knight164

Member
As far as credible news sites, I personally prefer the military blogs for first-hand reports unfiltered by the media. Granted many are biased, but more towards the truth than what you see on TV. Understand that many of the media are doing armchair reporting in safe zones as info is being fed to them. Some of the info (pics, interviews, reports) were fabricated by the insurgents to win the American hearts and the media bit. But guys like Ollie North "get it" and know where to get credible news. I was very fortunate to have him embedded with us in Operation Iraqi Freedom I. He said the only reason he joined Fox News was because he was tired of the "hollywood media" spinning the news to their liking. He was on his way to a cruise with his wife when his wife, also upset, told him to go and tell it like it really is.
Gotta go. I'm wasting your tax dollars...Mods, can you do me a favor and check my six so I don't get in trouble? Thanks.
 

saltn00b

Active Member
unfortunately war is an evolving animal, and it is closely tied with technology. as much as everyone wants, you can never go back to the 'good old days' like WWII with no media. It will only continue to saturate even more aspects of every engagement from today on out. If the camera sees it, then politics will follow. that is inevitable and unavoidable.
i am unafilliated and will vote on what i see is right, not based upon a single party and the mindset and stigma that goes with it, and will not tolerate being ignorantly lumped into a category. If i don't like a president and his actions, it has nothing to do with my views on abortion, homosexual marriage, or what have you, i just think the guy is schmuck. I fully agree with a war against terror, but this is something quite different than what is and was happening in Iraq. The bridge was built on lies, and passed so quickly that there wasnt even time to think about it. not so much as a shred of solid evidence, just an ample opportunity to finish what daddy started years ago and go down in the history books as a hero. backfire. When has there ever been an entire mobilized army based on a 'hunch'? never before. convenient
Everything he has touched has become a disaster and he goes crawling back to daddy and clinton, a few real presidents, for guidance. When is the last time so many intelligent, high ranking officials have stepped down and washed their hands of the mess before it happened? These are people in the know. I promise the know alot more about the situation than you and I, and what they know is enough that they dont want to be a part of it. Some people say the love the fact that he is 'dilligent' and doesnt back down with all of the bad press. There is a fine line between dillegence and stubborness, and when you can look 300 million people in the face and lie over and over again, and not once admit that any of the countless bad calls , was in fact, a bad call, and that he is going to further dig the hole just to prove a point, that is so far over the pigheaded line it is not even an argument. it is all a disgraceful slap in the face.
you can't commend the man for going after terrorists (where they dont live), because that is what anybody would have done at that point.
you can't commend the man for bringing the economy back up to par, because it was his (unwarranted) war that stimulated it. it's a historical fact that war stimulates economies, so it's really no surprise that it's strong now, is it?
He has cut funding and reversed ecological sanctions, setting back conservation strategies decades of progress. their is a whole other thread on climate change that we could get into here, but to me, it's just another reason why he should have been impeached years ago.
there have been a million arguments on here that i could touch on all of them but i dont remember them all and i have spent enough of the work day on here so thats all for now, i do want to reiterate what some people have said tho, that i appreciate everything that the servicemen and women have sacrificed for this country, and in debating the merrits of a president, it in no way should be taken as a disrespect of these fine soldiers, as you can support troops without supporting the war.
 

watson3

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1knight164
(Hot883, I can understand why you're taking a backseat to this one).
Why is that?
 

watson3

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1knight164
Phixer, I was there for the USS Cole
I would like to know where specifically you were..I am starting to think you have not read this whole thread..
 

phixer

Active Member
Originally Posted by AAnthony
Bush is a retard, he thinks iraq is such a threat, and thought sadamm was going to kill him, this is coming from a guy who nearly died from a pretzel, i dont want to badmouth america but seriously, saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, and you went into iraq to destroy his weapons of mass destruction by blowing innocent people up with your weapons of mass destruction, i dont really care though, im from canada, and because of your fallen economy i can buy things much cheaper in america.
Please respond when sober.....
 

ol'salty

Member
I would first like to state, No offense intended to anyone. That being said, this thread is going nowhere fast. It would be almost impossible to change someones opinion sitting in front of you in your living room, so doing on a forum more than likely ain't happenin. Both sides have stated the same stuff over and over and if there is anything either of you missed there is no reason to post it. In other words, why waiste it on deaf ears. You could have personal pictures that would prove it one way or the other and you would just get accused of photo shop. No comment will change this arguement and i think it will just go down hill from here. My only advice is to remember why you are on this forum (salt water fish), and try not to take anything you read in this post "out there" with you. Since noone can persuade the other, this is when the personal blows normally start.
Again just my .02
 

1knight164

Member
Originally Posted by watson3
Why is that?
Barry is a former Marine and all these points were already brought up in another thread. Can't remember which one. And if I remember correctly, he had mentioned that he does not like to get involved in discussions such as this one for personal reasons although I think I know where he stands. The message was more for him. In hindsight, I shouldn't have put that in my post.
 

watson3

Active Member
If you read and look closely, you will see many military personell have responded..I am however still interested as to where you were when my ship was attacked
 

1knight164

Member
Originally Posted by watson3
I would like to know where specifically you were..I am starting to think you have not read this whole thread..
Now why would you say that? I was on the USS Tarawa as part of the MEU when it happened and we responded and provided a detachment of CH-46's to help out. As for thinking I haven't read the whole thread, I learned when I first started posting that you have to read the whole thread or you get slammed as you have done to a few. What I didn't want to do was beat a dead horse and repeat what you all have been presenting. You all did a superb job without me and just wanted to give my .02 and help the cause. If you think I came off wrong, i'm open to criticism. I am not as well armed as all of you when it comes to debating.
 

watson3

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1knight164
Now why would you say that?
I think this hole thing came across wrong, there really should be pm..Anyway, I was wanting to know where you were when we got bombed..It is not often that my shipmates and myself have been able to thank people that came to our aid..
 

1knight164

Member
Originally Posted by watson3
I think this hole thing came across wrong, there really should be pm..Anyway, I was wanting to know where you were when we got bombed..It is not often that my shipmates and myself have been able to thank people that came to our aid..
I also need to apologize. As I re-read my previous post, I got you and Phixer mixed up and I also didn't elaborate on my disappointment with our response. Sounded like I wasn't pleased with the Cole's response when what I meant was that I wasn't pleased with the US's response. Someone said in there post that they remembered seeing Clinton point his finger at the camera saying "Don't you do that again." Give me a break. Wish I would've seen that.
Rules of Engagement at that time were very sketchy and the security on the ship dealing with a catch 22. Shoot and save your ship or, if you're wrong, you start a international incident. Tough choice at the time especially for a young sailor.
I tell you, it was really gut wrenching seeing that gaping whole in one of our proud warships and knowing that Americans were killed and injured! I'm glad they ship is back in action. Take that, Al Qaida.
Good luck to you, shipmate. Maybe we'll meet someday.
 

watson3

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1knight164
Good luck to you, shipmate. Maybe we'll meet someday.
Same to you.
 
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