Let's talk waterboarding

darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Why is this such a hot issue and at the forefront of american politics?
4 people over 3-4 years ago were water boarded. No one since.
1 of those four people was the master mind behind 9/11
1 of those waterboarded was the Terrorist that beheaded Nick Berg.
the 2 others were high level operatives one was responsible for the terrorist action in Bali Indonesia that killed so many.
So why are we making a huge deal about this topic when it is only these four that were waterboarded (the longest time was for 1.5 minutes) ?
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2474330
Why is this such a hot issue and at the forefront of american politics?
4 people over 3-4 years ago were water boarded. No one since.
1 of those four people was the master mind behind 9/11
1 of those waterboarded was the Terrorist that beheaded Nick Berg.
the 2 others were high level operatives one was responsible for the terrorist action in Bali Indonesia that killed so many.
So why are we making a huge deal about this topic when it is only these four that were waterboarded (the longest time was for 1.5 minutes) ?
Aparrently there are some bleeding heart types who think this technique is cruel to the poor terrorists. I mean, shucks... all they want to do is kill us. Gee whiz!
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by b bauer
http:///forum/post/2474812
it was 4 this time how many before that

No, it's been 4 total since the war began.
Here's the thing... These Al Qaeda saw heads off folks alive, use mentally handicapped women as unwitting homicide bombers, (and as we just saw the video this week) douse people in gasoline and burn them alive, etc.
But dumping some water on a wet towel draped over their heads is "torture"?
I don't buy that argument. As long as it does no permanent damage to them I say send them all to Davy Jone's locker for a few minutes to see what they know. The more info we get the more of the animals we can round up.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
In the "minds" of left wingers what went on at abu Garab was a national tragedy but they excused the murder and beheading of civilian contractors and then having the bodies hung in public because "we shouldn't have been there in the first place". Do you honestly expect them to understand waterboarding? I think they should leave that as an option a President can approve. In general those methods arent effective but their are exceptions to that rule.
 
b bauer

b bauer

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2474837
No, it's been 4 total since the war began.
Here's the thing... These Al Qaeda saw heads off folks alive, use mentally handicapped women as unwitting homicide bombers, (and as we just saw the video this week) douse people in gasoline and burn them alive, etc.
But dumping some water on a wet towel draped over their heads is "torture"?
I don't buy that argument. As long as it does no permanent damage to them I say send them all to Davy Jone's locker for a few minutes to see what they know. The more info we get the more of the animals we can round up.
so is torture ok anytime
 
scsinet

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by b bauer
http:///forum/post/2474856
so is torture ok anytime
I thought I had an answer to this question until I started to type an answer... then stopped. Instead... I'll tell a story.
I once had a guy working for me named Chris. Chris was a staunch democrat. He hated that I would put on conservative talk radio in my car whenever we went to lunch. Once in the car the torture of suspected terrorists came up on the radio. He makes the comment... "tourture is never okay."
So I asked him "Okay Chris... imagine that your family... your parents, wife, brothers, children were kidnapped and held in a room with a time bomb. The police have someone in custody who they knew had knowledge of how to defuse it. Would you go so far as to torture the suspect to get save your families life?"
His reply : "No."
My response: "So you'd let your family die.... just so you could forego torturing"
His response, in a loud, angry voice "NO TORTURE!!!!"
I reluctantly dropped the subject, but have often wondered in practical application whether or not if he were actually IN that situation if his feelings would stay the same... ???
I also often wonder whether these people that are so against torture would feel the same way if they could directly correlate these suspected terrorists to the lives of people they love?
I love America. I love her like a family member. These terrorists are killing Americans.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Its torture no doubt about it, though certainly not to the same extend as many other tortures. I suppose many believe that we (civilized Americans) should not indulge in such. That's the issue.
As far as I'm concerned, they can go full blown torture on those types, and I'll still feel quit civilized. The real issue is the access the public has to every thing that happens in war.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2474330
Why is this such a hot issue and at the forefront of american politics?
4 people over 3-4 years ago were water boarded. No one since.
1 of those four people was the master mind behind 9/11
1 of those waterboarded was the Terrorist that beheaded Nick Berg.
the 2 others were high level operatives one was responsible for the terrorist action in Bali Indonesia that killed so many.
So why are we making a huge deal about this topic when it is only these four that were waterboarded (the longest time was for 1.5 minutes) ?
It is simply another avenue for the Bush haters and those that hate America to run down.
If they have a high profile captive that has info....and if we can get that info in time and it will save lives....they can waterboard'em, bakeboard'em or surfboard'em......I'm all for it.
I don't agree with McCain on this one. So as far as torture goes....I'm all for it if it will save lives. I'm also for adopting the Clinton don't ask don't tell philosophy for those doin the "boardin" from this point forward.
 
pontius

pontius

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2474330
1 of those waterboarded was the Terrorist that beheaded Nick Berg.
actually, I'm pretty sure that Berg was beheaded by Al Zarqawi that was killed when his safe house was bombed.
but to the original question, yeah, I have no problem with waterboarding or other forms of torture. not when these people have killed thousands of innocent Americans. we're not talking about torturing someone who jaywalked, we're talking about ruthless murderers.
now for the legality arguments of it. I know that we don't officially endorse torture because of, what, the Geneva Convention or something like that? well, I'm pretty sure that these terrorists didn't sign that treaty, so they shouldn't be protected under it, right? afterall, not only are they killing people outright, but they are torturing people as well, like the aforementioned Nick Berg.
 
pontius

pontius

Active Member
oh yeah, I'm not just in favor of torturing these foreign terrorists either. here's another example of where I'd condone any means of torture necessary.....
about 4 years ago, these 2 dimwits broke out of a Kentucky jail, stole a car, and came here to SC where I live. they accosted a woman in the Wal-Mart parking lot and forced her to drive away with them. they were filmed on surveillance camera kidnapping her. they were eventually caught, I believe in WV or somewhere, but the woman's body was never found. they admitted to raping her and duct taping her to a tree somewhere, God knows where, between SC and WV. so this woman was duct taped ALIVE to a tree and left there to die. these 2 stalled and played around with the so-called justice system for so long that the woman probably died while they were in custody. and to this day, they've never led police to the body, they were convicted without a body. she was not the only one either, there was a 19 year old college student that they got in WV and I'm pretty sure her body was never found either. they got a man somewhere and he got away because he was able to free himself from tree he was duct taped to. now if it were up to me, these 2 would've been tortured from the time they were caught to the time that they led authorities to these 2 women.
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by b bauer
http:///forum/post/2474856
so is torture ok anytime
Define "torture".
Slapping someone on the back of the head?
Keeping someone awake for 3 days?
Waterboarding?
Cutting off fingers?
Breaking legs?
Burning alive?
Electrocution?
I would certainly have an issue with the last 4, but have no problem with the first 3.
And my issue with the last three would be to make absolutely sure they are guilty before you bust out the knives...
If/when these monsters get a WMD into the USA and wipe out 10,000 Americans in a few minutes with a single explosion we'll start singing a different song in regards to how to treat these guys.
More importantly, can you imagine the "outrage" that would occur in Congress if it was later revealed the CIA had a prisoner that they hadn't "aggressively" questioned who could have warned of the attack?
 
1journeyman

1journeyman

Active Member

Originally Posted by Pontius
http:///forum/post/2475315
...........
now for the legality arguments of it. I know that we don't officially endorse torture because of, what, the Geneva Convention or something like that? well, I'm pretty sure that these terrorists didn't sign that treaty, so they shouldn't be protected under it, right? afterall, not only are they killing people outright, but they are torturing people as well, like the aforementioned Nick Berg.
You're exactly right. The Geneva Convention states that a country must treat prisoners of war in agreement with the Geneva Convention, even if the other parties are not participants of the Convention.
That said, the Geneva Convention also lays out who is covered. It makes very clear the Convention holds Nations accountable to other Nations in the case of International Conflicts.
As soon as someone can point out the nation of "Al Qaeda" to me I'd say put away the waterboards.
 
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