Lionfish in the Bahamas

T

tizzo

Guest
Ya know, I can see your point Ophi. As a hobbiest I want to agree with Sep, but I guess in the grand sceme of things and on the scale that it's on, I, as a hobbiest don't consider all perspectives until articles such as these.
To me it was as simple as, you have lions, hobbiests want lions, period. But I guess it's not that simple.
Interesting.
Are they attempting to eradicate them now? And if so, how?
 
fmarini

fmarini

Member
Susan--
i came across an interesting report the otherday. Seems mitrochondrial DNA samples have been taken from a few lionfish populations collected on the east coast, and compared to lionfish population thruout the world.
Anyone care to guess what populations of lionfish in the world, where the mtDNA polymorphisms match up, suggesting the origin of these fish?
I'll also ask-- for those familiar w/ lionfish, and not familiar w/ mtDNA analysis, to look at the photos of the juvenile lionfish collected off the carolinas (say here http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/6/aafeature phots by todd gardner), and compare them to the photos of juvie lionfish found say in the south pacific (say here http://www.underwatercompetition.com...ose-2-bos.html)
Anyone notice anything remotely similar
frank
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2654266
Oh boy.
I see the resemblance between the two. It is hard for me to accept that it is better to kill these fish, but I completely understand what the collection of them would do to the area.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Well even then, even if you can patrol the area and collectors really truly only removed the lions. Then you have thousands upon thousands of fish going to the LFS's... So many in fact the price will most likely drop. Now we have thousands of hobbiests with lions, most of which never researched the fish, cause it was only 10 bucks. Now the fish has outgrown the tank and the LFS won't take it back, they have to many. You can't give it away cause everyone who wanted one bought one at 10 bucks...
What's the harm in throwing it back into the ocean. That's where it came from right? He'll be happy and I'm doing the right thing.
And it starts all over.
From a scientific perspective, that is, in the long run, unwise.
I don't like the thought of killing them either, but then again, I have sympathy for the crown of thorns too.
But to save so many other critters whos habitat is there, you have to remove the unnatural threat.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2657407
Well even then, even if you can patrol the area and collectors really truly only removed the lions. Then you have thousands upon thousands of fish going to the LFS's... So many in fact the price will most likely drop. Now we have thousands of hobbiests with lions, most of which never researched the fish, cause it was only 10 bucks. Now the fish has outgrown the tank and the LFS won't take it back, they have to many. You can't give it away cause everyone who wanted one bought one at 10 bucks...
What's the harm in throwing it back into the ocean. That's where it came from right? He'll be happy and I'm doing the right thing.
And it starts all over.
From a scientific perspective, that is, in the long run, unwise.
I don't like the thought of killing them either, but then again, I have sympathy for the crown of thorns too.
But to save so many other critters whos habitat is there, you have to remove the unnatural threat.
That is a guesstimated outcome at best. Lions are still collected, in high number, every day. I see why it cannot be done in this area. I don't like the thought of animals being killed because they are predatory, but if it will save the species of the area then one has to succumb to the greater good.
 
T

tizzo

Guest
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2658787
That is a guesstimated outcome at best. .
But isn't that how they got there to begin with?
Don't you remember how many kids flushed clowns because of Nemo?? (with the best intentions) People aren't all that well thought out.

Do I have to pull crap off of you tube again?
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by Tizzo
http:///forum/post/2658986
But isn't that how they got there to begin with?
Don't you remember how many kids flushed clowns because of Nemo?? (with the best intentions) People aren't all that well thought out.

Do I have to pull crap off of you tube again?

Sure, I see what you are talking about. What I was talking about with the guesstimating is the whole scenario that you outlined
I am sure that some people would do that. How many, I do not know. At any rate, I agreed that it would probably not be best to collect these guys from that area. You are correct, they had to come from somewhere.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Might have a numbers thing to do with it as well. I mean, somone can only collect so many lionfish, especially even to have the ability to house some of the larger lionfish. Where as someone could easily kill as many lionfish as they can. Either way, they need out of the Atlantic.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
I question the method for killing them. If they cannot be captured without causing destruction to the area, how would they be killed without doing the same?
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Unfortunately it will take a major effort on many fronts to eradicate the infestation.
And infestation it is...make no mistake. Collection alone will not work. There has to be a conceintious effort of all Bahamians to get control of the Lionfish. Whether killing on site, returning to a station for scientific data, whatever.
What predators do Lionfish have?
What happens when local fish try to eat the Lionfish?
What happens when tourists start getting hospitalized from Lionfish?
It's allways nice to see fish in their natural environment. But this is not the Lion's natural environment.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
I understand that they need to be removed from that area. No question about it. How are they going to kill them? If it is poison dropped, then any other life can be killed from it. If they are injecting them, then it is selective, the fish can potentially be moved elsewhere rather than killed. How is this going to be handled? Does anyone know?
 
1320wrx

1320wrx

New Member
I live in Atlantic City, NJ and I have caught 3 lionfish in my sane while catching things for a frinds tank. One was about 10 inches long and the other two were about 6-7 inches. I was very supprised when I saw them. I didnt think they could handle the cooler temps and lower salt levels this far north.
 
groupergenius

groupergenius

Active Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2662923
I understand that they need to be removed from that area. No question about it. How are they going to kill them? If it is poison dropped, then any other life can be killed from it. If they are injecting them, then it is selective, the fish can potentially be moved elsewhere rather than killed. How is this going to be handled? Does anyone know?
Seems to me they should put a bounty on them. Say $3-5 a fish. All the locals would jump all over that. It might cost the Bahamian government a bit, but it's better than letting the Lions take over the reefs.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
http:///forum/post/2663345
Seems to me they should put a bounty on them. Say $3-5 a fish. All the locals would jump all over that. It might cost the Bahamian government a bit, but it's better than letting the Lions take over the reefs.

Wouldn't offering the locals money to catch them alive, then selling them to a distributer even it out and save lives? The government would make the money back. They would not then be sold for $10 a fish, as was mentioned before. The fish would be safely collected. The distributors could buy them cheaper than other places, but not dirt cheap. The distributer would not be inclined to sell them cheap, nor would they have to hire another crew to collect.
If there is a bounty on the fish then the locals will be scrambling to kill them. Would they not kill other fish as well? I am trying to think ahead to the downside that some may see to collecting them alive.
 
fisharefishy99

fisharefishy99

Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2664781
Wouldn't offering the locals money to catch them alive, then selling them to a distributer even it out and save lives? The government would make the money back. They would not then be sold for $10 a fish, as was mentioned before. The fish would be safely collected. The distributors could buy them cheaper than other places, but not dirt cheap. The distributer would not be inclined to sell them cheap, nor would they have to hire another crew to collect.
If there is a bounty on the fish then the locals will be scrambling to kill them. Would they not kill other fish as well? I am trying to think ahead to the downside that some may see to collecting them alive.
I agree. But, if we let this alone. What would happen? (This is pure speculation, not saying we should) Wouldn't the lionfish population grow a little more, then plunge dramaticaly by itself. Since no species can really grow exponentially forever without reprecussions. Since they would eventually run out of food? I think there isn't much we can do. But if you think about it, it MAY be better to leave them alone. If the ocean can sustain lets say... 10 million lionfish comfortably. And the lionfish get to a 12 million population, and people kill 2 million. Wouldn't that just allow the lionfish to be able to sustain themselves? If they get to 20 million. They would in theory all starved to death. I think once they have "eradicated themselves". Then we could step in and collect the left overs, or kill them if necessary. Although I never like the idea of killing something like that.
I might be talking like an idiot. But it's just a thought. Perhaps even a viable alternate route for this whole thing. I personally think we can't single handedly take enough lionfish to make a difference, then if we just let them go. Either way the environment will suffer. I think we should stop butting in and let it take care of itself.
 
mickela

mickela

Member
I have just been reading a american angler mag and they have an article on this very subject the main problem being is that the lions are eating anything that will fit in their mouth including small groupers,snappers,crabs,shrimp etc and they are worried about the long term effect on the ecoststem.Fly fishermen have found juvenile lionfish in the stomachs of large groupers.I guess we can hope the groupers will save the day
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top