Looking for advice on this aquarium quote/setup

deejeff442

Active Member
i used to build hot rods .
it was alot of fun spending other peoples cash.
in the end i had fun telling them what to buy and putting it together and they loved the final result.
i like to keep my tanks as simple as possible.
put your money into a skimmer and a good light system.
other than that as long as you are using alot of lr you dont need the mechanical filtration.the rest is just shopping around.
my simple set up is
225 dt 120 sump fuge.
250 lbs lr in dt and 75 lbs of lr in sump
octo extreme skimmer,phosphate reactor,carbon reactor,big return pump and 4 koralias.coralife 3 250watt mh and 4 96watt compact.
thats it.
i have quite a few big fish and the water is always perfect.
 
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aquatix

Guest
Ok, one of the quotes came in. He doesn't yet have the quote for the tank itself. See what you think about this setup:
Protein Skimmer-Vertex In-180 Gen 2 = $285 required
Lighting-Nova Pro $380 (reef) or Nova Extreme (fish only) $240
Sump - 60g= $100 required
Return Pump- Eheim 1262= $160 required
Heater- 300w Titanium w/controller=$30 required
Hose and plumbing parts=$60 required
Power Heads (water circulation) Tunze 6125 (reef) $235 x 2=$470 or Tunze 6405 (fish only) $90 x 2=$180
Filter Sock Holder w/filter socks= $40 required
Sand-Carib Sea substrate= $100 optional
Live Rock-Fiji Premium 150lbs @ $4 per pound= $600 optional
Lighting timers and power strips w/ surge protection= $100 optional
Automatic Water Top-off system= $150 optional
RO/DI water purifying system= $250 optional
UV Sterilizer-Current USA 40w= $180 optional
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021103
Ok, one of the quotes came in. He doesn't yet have the quote for the tank itself. See what you think about this setup:
Protein Skimmer-Vertex In-180 Gen 2 = $285 required
Lighting-Nova Pro $380 (reef) or Nova Extreme (fish only) $240
Sump - 60g= $100 required
Return Pump- Eheim 1262= $160 required
Heater- 300w Titanium w/controller=$30 required
Hose and plumbing parts=$60 required
Power Heads (water circulation) Tunze 6125 (reef) $235 x 2=$470 or Tunze 6405 (fish only) $90 x 2=$180
Filter Sock Holder w/filter socks= $40 required
Sand-Carib Sea substrate= $100 optional
Live Rock-Fiji Premium 150lbs @ $4 per pound= $600 optional
Lighting timers and power strips w/ surge protection= $100 optional
Automatic Water Top-off system= $150 optional
RO/DI water purifying system= $250 optional
UV Sterilizer-Current USA 40w= $180 optional
That's not a bad setup... total $2,475 for almost all the equipment for FOWLR(and a pretty nice setup IMO). You have to expect an acrylic, drilled 170-180 gallon tank, stand and canopy will run you $2,500-$3,000. It's a pretty nice setup.
I like that it includes incidentals like timers and surge protectors, so you don't have to scramble and get them after the fact. The auto topoff is a nice feature. I don't use a UV sterilizer... don't think it's necessary. BTW, you might want to check to see if a light is included for the refugium, as one is not listed. If not, they are pretty cheap.
Couple grand below what Tenecor wanted for an inferior setup. Nice work.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i m not fimiliar with all the brands you looked at.
personally i would go with the reef lighting with the metal halides even if you dont have corals the shimmer of the mh looks awesome.
look for a bigger return pump 1200 gph is too small by the time it travels the 5 or 6 feet to the top of the tank it will only be 800-850.mag 18 is a nice pump.i have a reeflo 2300 gph but it is louder than i like .luckily its in the basement so no big deal.
two tunze setup for the reef is awesome.
alot of flow is great.
my corals were not looking thier best opening up.
i had 3 koralias and the reeflow so i added another koralia and bam opened right up.
you will never get the water movement the ocean puts out so dont worry about too much flow.
i dont run a uv but that is a big debateable subject.i keep thinking of getting one.
as for rock i would get 200 lbs .150 lbs for the dt and 50 lbs for the sump/fuge.
looks like you are going in the right direction .
 

deejeff442

Active Member
hell yea ,nice set up for reef.
looks alot better than the origional at30% off.
these stores just love people with money telling them i want a complete set up lets go.
see what a little homework will do
now you can go get some nice fish with the cash you saved .
if youstill want to spend alot of cash i suggest a clarion angel and a gem tang.
just playing
 

jdl

Member
Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021103
Ok, one of the quotes came in. He doesn't yet have the quote for the tank itself. See what you think about this setup:
Protein Skimmer-Vertex In-180 Gen 2 = $285 required
Lighting-Nova Pro $380 (reef) or Nova Extreme (fish only) $240
Sump - 60g= $100 required
Return Pump- Eheim 1262= $160 required
Heater- 300w Titanium w/controller=$30 required
Hose and plumbing parts=$60 required
Power Heads (water circulation) Tunze 6125 (reef) $235 x 2=$470 or Tunze 6405 (fish only) $90 x 2=$180
Filter Sock Holder w/filter socks= $40 required
Sand-Carib Sea substrate= $100 optional
Live Rock-Fiji Premium 150lbs @ $4 per pound= $600 optional
Lighting timers and power strips w/ surge protection= $100 optional
Automatic Water Top-off system= $150 optional
RO/DI water purifying system= $250 optional
UV Sterilizer-Current USA 40w= $180 optional
Buy the best skimmer you can afford, especially if you plan on a heavy bioload. That $285 should be $700+ for the size tank you are talking about. Look at the MSX 2s cone.
Also look into a controller. You can get a basic setup for $300 (aquacontroller jr or reefkeeper lite) or an advanced one for $500+. A controller is one item you dont need, but once you have one you wonder how you ever lived without it. A controller will also take care of lighting timers, automatic water top offs (may need a few other items to make one work with whatever controller you buy). It will also keep your water temp very stable.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
i dont know about that i have an octo for $300 and it works great.
another thing you will want to do is set up a qt tank.
do you have a tank for that yet,if not you really need to find one i would get at least a 50 gallon.especially if you are going to get bigger fish.
i would find one this weekend so you can start to cycle it .
by the time its cycled you will probably have the 170 setup then put a couple fish in the qt while the dt is cycling .if the timing is right you will have a couple healthy fish for your dt when that is cycled.
just a thought.
 

oceansidefish

Active Member
Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021103
Ok, one of the quotes came in. He doesn't yet have the quote for the tank itself. See what you think about this setup:
Protein Skimmer-Vertex In-180 Gen 2 = $285 required
Lighting-Nova Pro $380 (reef) or Nova Extreme (fish only) $240
Sump - 60g= $100 required
Return Pump- Eheim 1262= $160 required
Heater- 300w Titanium w/controller=$30 required
Hose and plumbing parts=$60 required
Power Heads (water circulation) Tunze 6125 (reef) $235 x 2=$470 or Tunze 6405 (fish only) $90 x 2=$180
Filter Sock Holder w/filter socks= $40 required
Sand-Carib Sea substrate= $100 optional
Live Rock-Fiji Premium 150lbs @ $4 per pound= $600 optional
Lighting timers and power strips w/ surge protection= $100 optional
Automatic Water Top-off system= $150 optional
RO/DI water purifying system= $250 optional
UV Sterilizer-Current USA 40w= $180 optional
I would definately get a different Protein Skimmer I would go with an ATB, Deltech or Warner Marine
Lighting... If you end up deciding on a real reef get Metal Halides.
Return Pump....The Eheim 1262 is what I run on my 120, you will need a bigger one
As far as powerheads you can modify the Tunze nano streams to make them waaayyyy more GPH...You will just need 2
As far as lighting..it depends on if you are going to run a canopy or not...I hate the stupid plug in timers, so I hard wired my lights to have digital timers in the wall. My lights hang from the ceiling.
Definately get a nice RO/DI system...Personally I like Spectrapure...and Autotop offs IMHO are a must for large tanks.
Skip the UV unless you are going fish only.
 
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aquatix

Guest
He's only heard back from one of the vendors, but this seems like a good deal, isn't it? How many gallons is this? Anything else I need added? What about that closed loop powerhead thing... i need cutouts for that so I can hide the powerheads? I don't want anything showing.
72” x 24” x 30”Acrylic tank with built in overflows and black back, black laqour stand(36” tall, there is a little extra cost for the extra 6” but it is much easier for viewing) and canopy w/ recessed doors = $2000
 

crimzy

Active Member
72" x 24" x 30" is a 225 gallon tank... drilled with overflows and a stand and canopy for $2,000 is a good price. The seller should be able to drill it for a closed loop system for a couple bucks more. Just make sure you see the stand and canopy first. Also, make sure that there is room in the canopy for metal halide lights and fans.
 

wattsupdoc

Active Member
Protein Skimmer-Vertex In-180 Gen 2 = $285 requiredThis is not an appropriately sized skimmer at all. Opt for a much better one, spend some cash here, look at the bubble king, ATM cone skimmers, or the ATM knock off by warner Marine possibly, but The first two smoke anything else out there right now FO SHOOOO!Lighting-Nova Pro $380 (reef) or Nova Extreme (fish only) $240I would opt for something with MH, a retro, also this cannot be the 72 in nova pro 12 39w job, not for that price... Therefore not likely exactly what a reef will need....for "anything you want" at leastSump - 60g= $100 requiredNot a bad price, but how is it constructed, again IMO undersized for a 220...
Return Pump- Eheim 1262= $160 required
Way undersized .. almost any one's opinion...Mag 24....

Heater- 300w Titanium w/controller=$30 required
I would opt for 2 of these....

Hose and plumbing parts=$60 required
yep, gonna need some...

Power Heads (water circulation) Tunze 6125 (reef) $235 x 2=$470 or Tunze 6405 (fish only) $90 x 2=$180
Very nice.....But there are many options out there for flow....Closed loop would be my choice,, with Oceans Motions....

Filter Sock Holder w/filter socks= $40 required
Skip it opt for a well designed sump/fuge...

Sand-Carib Sea substrate= $100 optional
No way near enough surely....also IMO optional in display, not optional in the filtration....

Live Rock-Fiji Premium 150lbs @ $4 per pound= $600 optional
Good price..not enough of it though...also IMO not optional

Lighting timers and power strips w/ surge protection= $100 optional
Gonna need 'em,

Automatic Water Top-off system= $150 optional
IMO not optional,,,but can do cheaper likely, of course if this includes labor....

RO/DI water purifying system= $250 optional
again, not optional IMO...be sure it's 100 gpd or better though...

UV Sterilizer-Current USA 40w= $180 optional
skip it, your pods will appreciate it...
 
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aquatix

Guest
Alright, I spoke with the guy on the phone about all these concerns. I think I'll be going with either the high end Warner Marine skimmer or low end bubble king (the BK is a few hundred more). Remember, this is not a full blown reef, but only so much as an emperor angel will allow.
The lights are 48' T5's and he isn't concerned with them not being 72'. He says that the light on the bottom of the tank will be great, but there will be little dark spots on the top edges that won't matter much. He says that the 72' don't fit inside the canopy well.
In terms of the closed loop, he suggests against it because he says the pump would be much louder than the spec'd powerheads, and they can be a pain to deal with if something goes wrong. As a side note, the ONE condition my wife gave me was that she didn't want it loud (since it's going in our living room). We can hide the powerheads themselves and the black cords should blend in well with the black background.
In terms of the pump size for the filter, he still suggests going with the big Eheim 1262 as he says it will pump enough water and I don't need more than the skimmer can handle per hour. He also said that anything too much bigger would get a bit noisier (see wife comment above).
After speaking with him, I don't think I'll be going with the refugium (which I am sure will draw skepticism by some of you). I forget all the reasons to be honest with you, something to the affect of needing a big one and it isn't worth the hassel.
Getting more live rock and sand is not a problem.
I will be getting a "junior" version of the controller, which sounds like it will be great!
I am moving from a 30' high tank to a 24' for ease of maintenance, so the tank will be 72X24X24, which I believe is 180 gallons. The tank itself comes from a "good" company and is the same vendor that he uses for his own, personal tanks.
I also think I'll be having him install it with me so I can learn and hopefully not screw anything up...
He'll be restructuring the quote to match the above...
Thanks again to everyone who's chimed in... I'm really excited!
 
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aquatix

Guest
here are his revised quote details:
Protein skimmer options
Warner Marine AS200 Skimmer $650-good
Warner Marine K2 Cone Skimmer $775 - better
Bubble King Mini 180 $975- better
Bubble King Supermarin 200 $1450-best
Controller
AquaController Jr w/ temp probe and DC8 $225
Ph probe $50
If you go with the controller you can take $75 off of the timers and power strips quote from before, you will still need at least 1 other power strip with surge protection
Closed Loop (I may not go with this because of potential noise)
Reeflo Super Dart Gold $390
Plumbing (ball valves w/ unions, bulkheads, pvc fittings, spa flex hose) $150
Oceans Motion 4-way $375
Lighting
T5 retro kit 8x 39w $520 (if we go with the retro kit it will mount to your canopy and have better coverage over the tank)
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021818
Alright, I spoke with the guy on the phone about all these concerns. I think I'll be going with either the high end Warner Marine skimmer or low end bubble king (the BK is a few hundred more). Remember, this is not a full blown reef, but only so much as an emperor angel will allow.
The lights are 48' T5's and he isn't concerned with them not being 72'. He says that the light on the bottom of the tank will be great, but there will be little dark spots on the top edges that won't matter much. He says that the 72' don't fit inside the canopy well.
In terms of the closed loop, he suggests against it because he says the pump would be much louder than the spec'd powerheads, and they can be a pain to deal with if something goes wrong. As a side note, the ONE condition my wife gave me was that she didn't want it loud (since it's going in our living room). We can hide the powerheads themselves and the black cords should blend in well with the black background.
In terms of the pump size for the filter, he still suggests going with the big Eheim 1262 as he says it will pump enough water and I don't need more than the skimmer can handle per hour. He also said that anything too much bigger would get a bit noisier (see wife comment above).
After speaking with him, I don't think I'll be going with the refugium (which I am sure will draw skepticism by some of you). I forget all the reasons to be honest with you, something to the affect of needing a big one and it isn't worth the hassel.
Getting more live rock and sand is not a problem.
I will be getting a "junior" version of the controller, which sounds like it will be great!
I am moving from a 30' high tank to a 24' for ease of maintenance, so the tank will be 72X24X24, which I believe is 180 gallons. The tank itself comes from a "good" company and is the same vendor that he uses for his own, personal tanks.
I also think I'll be having him install it with me so I can learn and hopefully not screw anything up...
He'll be restructuring the quote to match the above...
Thanks again to everyone who's chimed in... I'm really excited!
Seems like you're making good progress. Ditching the closed loop is no big deal... it's just personal preference. However I would hesitate to have a 48" light over a 72" tank. I've had several 72" tanks and there is plenty of lighting that fits... probably just none that work with his canopy design. If you are going to do any simple corals, you will be limited to putting them in the center of the rockwork. Also, if you really are interested in corals, you'll want to go with halides.
A controller is definitely not a necessity but a luxury. My system is run with several timers for the various lighting schedules, fans, fuge light, etc... and it works like clockwork. I've thought about getting a controller but it wouldn't do anything more than what I have now.
Finally let me again try to steer you away from using bio balls and towards a refugium. Virtually everyone who starts out with bio balls converts over later, which is a PITA. Unless you are prepared to remove all of the bio balls once per month, scrub them and replace them, then bio balls are not a good option.
Finally, you can get a very good skimmer for much less money. I'd look at the MSX 200 or 250. They are great skimmers and will be less expensive than what you are talking about.
Not trying to shoot down this proposal again, but understand that most retailers are going to point you towards their particular stock, whether or not it's the best option. I'd decide on equipment and then get them from various suppliers. It's not going to cost you any more. JMO again.
 

deejeff442

Active Member
48" light what is he kidding?
there will be shadows all over the tank.i know because i was using my old 48: system while i was waiting for the 72"
i agree 100% with crimsy he has a 450 gallon and dont have a $800 skimmer.
i am not on board with the lfs guy you are dealing with.
no fuge to me that tells me this guy dont know much.
 
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aquatix

Guest
I've responded with those concerns. The hesitation with the halides stems from the heat that is produced and the need for a chiller if I go that way...
Again, if it matters, this won't be a full blow reef tank, but only so much as I can have with an emperor angel...
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021874
I've responded with those concerns. The hesitation with the halides stems from the heat that is produced and the need for a chiller if I go that way...
Again, if it matters, this won't be a full blow reef tank, but only so much as I can have with an emperor angel...
My understanding is that an Emperor Angel will eat lots of corals, so your reef may be very limited. T5 lights are good, however even if you only have fish, you'll want a 72" light to display your fish nicely. BTW, with halides you don't necessarily need a chiller... fans generally do a fine job of keeping the temperature down. I have 4 x 400 watt MH lights and my temp always stays at about 78 degrees... I have fans mounted in the canopy to keep it cool.
 
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aquatix

Guest
Also just got this suggestion from him:
the only thing that could still be improved is the sump. I quoted you a generic, simple sump to save money, you could get a custom sump built with baffles to reduce micro bubbles in your tank, it would be nicer and we could make it larger but it would add another few hundred dollars to the cost.
 
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