Looking for advice on this aquarium quote/setup

deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
we understand that.what we are saying is mh looks better than t5.it gives off a shimmer that just looks awesome.
i dont know why all kinds of people think you need to run a chiller with mh.
maybe if you buy a cheap hanging fixture,but if you buy a quality enclosed system with fans you will not need a chiller.
plus you will have alot more groth on the lr which will mean more natural food for the angel to pick at.
as fot the pump again running a fuge that has 3 compartments fuge/skimmer/return you put the one return in the fuge the other in the skimmer therefore it is not sending too much water through the skimmer.
i have a mag 18 cant hear it at all i would go with the mag 24 on yours .ilike i said i have the reflow and it is a bit noisy.
well you can take the advice or leave it.i am done.
maybe crimsy will stick in there but seems to me the stores you are dealing with arent impressive to me at all.
i would go with the set up crimsy stated earlier .
good luck
 
A

aquatix

Guest
Thanks Jeff, I really do appreciate your advice and hope you aren't frustrated. Here is the seller's response:
The sump will have a filter sock section, a skimmer section and 3 baffles before the return pump section. There will not be bio balls, bio balls are a bad idea in any set-up that is utilizing live rock. They perform the same function as live rock but end up getting too much build-up and turn into a nitrate factory. They do not perform the same function as a refugium, the main purpose of a refugium is to get rid of phosphate, bio-balls do not filter out phosphate, a phosphate reactor is a good replacement for a refugium.
the lighting is as I explained, once you put a canopy on a tank you actually have 71-71.5" of usable space, a 72" fixture will not fit within the canopy unless you cut the sides off of it, there isn't a 60" fixture (unless you go with an ATI, which is a lot more money, or MH and with metal halide you will need a chiller, a taller canopy and extra fans in the canopy, which is of course more expense and noise) so the choices are:
1. Go with a 48" fixture
2. Go with a 72" fixture and cut the sides of the canopy
3. Go with th retro kit
about halides, fans are neccesary but are usually not enough, they are needed to keep the heat down in the canopy but a chiller is usually also needed, if your house stays pretty cool and the tank isn't up against a wall that gets direct heat from the sun outside you might be able to get away without one, but I know Bakersfield gets pretty hot during the summer.
The MSX skimmers work well but as I told you they have start-up issues after ahwile and the build quality is not as good as the Warner or BK skimmers. MSX skimmers work very well for the money, if you want to go that route you would just order the skimmer directly from them, they do not give discounts to retailers like us, it is one price for everybody.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
ok one more

i am not frustrated with you at all.
as you can tell from the posts of people on here that have years of experience we dont like lfs.
my 72" light is actually 71" the light would fit under the canopy since they are designed to sit on the top rim and the sides are probably 73" wide so it will fit.the legs are adjustable so you can slide them in to 70" and place a piece of 2"wide acrylic on the inner rim of the tank on each side to rest on.
again unless you dont air condition your home which i am sure you do the fans on the mh system will keep the tank at the right temp.
you could also add a couple fans to the back of the canopy later if needed but i dont think so.
i have run mh bulbs for 20 yrs and never had a heat issue ,i will tell you the look it gives is just awesome.
as for my fuge all i have in it is lr and sand with the phosphate reactor hanging on it.if you want to get a nice wrasse or mandarin later you will need pods in the tank this is where they breed.
i plan on adding a canopy to mine soon just havnt had the time yet.
oh yea i live in fort worth and it gets 110 in the shade here in the summer.
well good luck
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member

Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021818
In terms of the closed loop, he suggests against it because he says the pump would be much louder than the spec'd powerheads, and they can be a pain to deal with if something goes wrong. As a side note, the ONE condition my wife gave me was that she didn't want it loud (since it's going in our living room). We can hide the powerheads themselves and the black cords should blend in well with the black background.
The power heads alone will be fine...But a closed loop is a tad sweeter. The tunze's will be quieter, but you may end up adding a couple more down the road..BTW get the bigger ones regardless.
In terms of the pump size for the filter, he still suggests going with the big Eheim 1262 as he says it will pump enough water and I don't need more than the skimmer can handle per hour. He also said that anything too much bigger would get a bit noisier (see wife comment above).
Well IMO and in the opinion of most for that matter you should shoot for 10X through the sump/fuge. Split it, that's 5 X through the sump, 5x through the fuge. Now as far as flow to skimmer, that's a much debated topic. Moving more than it can handle per hour to it can never be a problem. However not delivering enough to it would be. Which the ehiem split would never be able to do.
After speaking with him, I don't think I'll be going with the refugium (which I am sure will draw skepticism by some of you). I forget all the reasons to be honest with you, something to the affect of needing a big one and it isn't worth the hassle.
Many run successful reefs without one. BUT it is my opinion that this person does not in any fashion fully understand the importance of one, let alone how to properly set one up. Therefore this is the reason, and the only logical explanation to me, for his logic. If you don't do one IMO you will be making a mistake. Likely adding one later.
I will be getting a "junior" version of the controller, which sounds like it will be great!

I am moving from a 30' high tank to a 24' for ease of maintenance, so the tank will be 72X24X24, which I believe is 180 gallons.
Good decision IMO...

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/3021841
Seems like you're making good progress. Ditching the closed loop is no big deal... it's just personal preference. However I would hesitate to have a 48" light over a 72" tank. I've had several 72" tanks and there is plenty of lighting that fits... probably just none that work with his canopy design. If you are going to do any simple corals, you will be limited to putting them in the center of the rockwork. Also, if you really are interested in corals, you'll want to go with halides. T5 will do just fine...but Halides are nice, I run them. Of course you could always add MH's to the retro..
A controller is definitely not a necessity but a luxury. My system is run with several timers for the various lighting schedules, fans, fuge light, etc... and it works like clockwork. I've thought about getting a controller but it wouldn't do anything more than what I have now.
The reefkeeper elite is phenomenal, I run timers and strips too, works fine. But I envy those with the controllers. They are nice and worth the cash if you have it...
Finally let me again try to steer you away from using bio balls and towards a refugium. Virtually everyone who starts out with bio balls converts over later, which is a PITA. Unless you are prepared to remove all of the bio balls once per month, scrub them and replace them, then bio balls are not a good option.
I totally agree...even if you aren't using bioballs. The refugium with a nice sized rubble compartment and plenty of room for macros will be sweet.
Finally, you can get a very good skimmer for much less money. I'd look at the MSX 200 or 250. They are great skimmers and will be less expensive than what you are talking about.
The ATB or bubble king are the shnizzle...no doubt. This is like comparing a Pontiac to a Rolls. I'd go for the ATB if it were me and the cash was there. The MSX are nice, no doubt, just not the same class.
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member

Originally Posted by aquatix
http:///forum/post/3021889
Thanks Jeff, I really do appreciate your advice and hope you aren't frustrated. Here is the seller's response:
The sump will have a filter sock section, a skimmer section and 3 baffles before the return pump section. There will not be bio balls, bio balls are a bad idea in any set-up that is utilizing live rock. They perform the same function as live rock but end up getting too much build-up and turn into a nitrate factory. They do not perform the same function as a refugium, the main purpose of a refugium is to get rid of phosphate, bio-balls do not filter out phosphate, a phosphate reactor is a good replacement for a refugium.
The filter socks can be a nitrate factory also. I don't run them. But m any do with good results. They do add to maintenance some. Not a bad idea , but not necessary IMO.. Now the refugium does remocve phosphate, but there's no way a phosban reactor replaces a refugium
. A good, properly set up refugium will remove organics, including dissolved and undissolved, phosphates, nitrates, particulate matter. As well as provide a REFUGE for critters to grow, like pods, and spawn and process waste as well as feed the fish....Now how can a reactor do that. However, a reactor can be of great benefit also...

the lighting is as I explained, once you put a canopy on a tank you actually have 71-71.5" of usable space, a 72" fixture will not fit within the canopy unless you cut the sides off of it, there isn't a 60" fixture (unless you go with an ATI, which is a lot more money, or MH and with metal halide you will need a chiller, a taller canopy and extra fans in the canopy, which is of course more expense and noise) so the choices are:
1. Go with a 48" fixture
2. Go with a 72" fixture and cut the sides of the canopy
3. Go with th retro kit
about halides, fans are neccesary but are usually not enough, they are needed to keep the heat down in the canopy but a chiller is usually also needed, if your house stays pretty cool and the tank isn't up against a wall that gets direct heat from the sun outside you might be able to get away without one, but I know Bakersfield gets pretty hot during the summer.
I have to somewhat agree here... You don't want a fixture in a canopy, that's what retros are for. Also many manufactures wont warranty a fixture installed in a canopy. Over all I'd go with the T5 retros myself...But be sure they are either Ice cap or sunlight supply...Nopt Hagen,,,these I believe are not High Output... But the MH sure are nice....
T5's will be quieter in the end...but still may require a fan or two...

The MSX skimmers work well but as I told you they have start-up issues after a while and the build quality is not as good as the Warner or BK skimmers. MSX skimmers work very well for the money, if you want to go that route you would just order the skimmer directly from them, they do not give discounts to retailers like us, it is one price for everybody.

I do not know exactly about the Warner marine skimmers....but they are in the same class as the ATB...Well kind of I suppose...They are a knock off of the ATB... I'm not sure how the pumps compare, that would be the defining factor . I believe everything else is exactly the same as ATB's. May be the pumpds too...
You want a bad arse off the shelf skimmer? Bubble king or ATB IMO... You want one that is decent and will "get the job done" some issues are OK? MSX baby...
I'd avoid the issues, you'll have them...go with the ATB or Bubble King. Your reef club will be green with envy ...

Don't make any decisions just yet...You must be patient here.. Just keep down this path and you'll have one saweeet 180...For "not a lot of change"....
 
wattsupdoc

wattsupdoc

Active Member
I can design you a sump/fuge ...If you want to get with your reef club and have someone help you assemble.... Or your LFS guy....
I really would consider using a mag 24 for the return. Then have the tank plumbed for a "Herbie style" drain<<<Google it... It will be dead silent. Theres another that is more complicated also, but IMO not worth the extra plumbing and etc...You'l,find that latter one googling around, it's is not a bad design at all, but not worth the extra steps to get uit there, when the "Herbie Style" gets you there very well... Google away...
 
oceansidefish

oceansidefish

Active Member
If you want the angel you are going to have a limited reef. In that case I would definately go with the Warner Marine AS-200 skimmer. As far as I know as well John Warner just pulled all of the cone skimmer because he is going to change something on them....Who knows when they will be back out on the market...The WM AS-200 will have its own pump and you won't need to t off the main pump anywhere. I run the Eheim in sump 1262 on my 120 with 2 Tunze nanostreams for flow.
I also agree on the one 48" light fixture not being enough... Personally I don't run a canopy on my tank and I think it looks better that way...Less distraction. My light hang from the ceiling with the ballasts in the attic. Keeps excess heat away and equipment out of sight. You could run a 24" and a 36" light 4 bulbs each....Personally I would go with halides though... I run a chiller on my tank anyways because I don't run my AC, so it's over 80 in my house easy this time of year.
 
oceansidefish

oceansidefish

Active Member
BTW here are the differences between the Warner Marine and ATB skimmers. Also note that both of these manufacturers ratings are REAL ratings, you don't have to double your water volume in this case.
Warner Marine AS-200
Pump: Specially modified Sedra 900
Up to 250g
Max air 900-1100 L/hr
Power consumption: 47W
This one will run you just over 500 bucks I believe...Mine was 450 and I have the AS-150.
Or you can wait for the cone series to come back out. They are going to be bad A**. I however didn't have the luxury of time.
ATB Cone skimmer for up to 250 gallons
Pump: Eheim
Size: 14Lx8Wx20H
Base Diameter 8&#8243;
Pump: Eheim 1260
Max Air 800L/hr ***
Power Consumption 50 watts
Tank rating: Up to 249 gallons.
Price 949.00
US Patent Pending
 
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