Mandrain Fish

[puffer32]

I had 2 many yrs ago, not together but 2 different varieties at 2 different times. Both died within a month. The first failure i attributed to a newish tank (6 months) and not enough LR. I did see him pick at frozen food, but not often. The 2nd one I got when my tank was established for 2 yrs. It died faster then the first one I had maybe 50 more lbs of LR and it wouldn't even try eating the live brine shrimp, but i did see it nibble on the LR constantly, so I thought that one would be a success story, but it didn't last 10 days

These a beautiful creatures and its very tempting to see them looking great in lfs knowing your set up is so much better, so they should do nicely in your tank, but for some reason, this does not hold true. I just know how misrable i was when mine died, i can't go through that again, so I will not buy again. :sleepy:

 

[jedi]

I, Like everyone else saw one in the LFs, thought it was beautifull and got one ..Many years ago.
Unfortunatly I was a beginner, and had no clue what it took to keep them. And of course the Idiot at the LFS never told me what they took to stay alive, let alone that I needed a large tank with LR to keep it in.
I got him home, and immediatly started to research what it needed to survive. I had never even heard of a mandarin before seeing him in the store. I tried everything suggested to keep it alive but to no avail..It died within a month.
After that I started reading and really gettting into Salt water tank keeping. And I "learned" from the mistakes of others, and I try to pass the knowledge along as best as possible.
As stated by reef and snipe, It is great to hear of the RARE occasion that someone gets a mandarin to eat, and survive. But think of how many are sold, and die, in comparison to the few that live. I personnally no NO ONE who has one that survived longer than 6 months, even with the best set ups, and established tanks.
These guys should be a "DO NOT BUY" fish IMO. we all get into this hobby for the love of the fish/corals/ inhabitants. To buy things that are going to suffer and die is inappropriate, and in my humble opinion, not in the best intrest of this hobby.
Sorry for the rant.....
Jedi

 

[puffer32]

I couldn't agree more Jedi. Now heres the problem, if they made madarins ilegal to sell, then that would solve the problem.We wouldn't see them in our lfs so we couldn't purchase them, which is a good thing. Though i won't buy them under any circumstance, because watching them die would break my heart. But if i were different person, why not buy them (relatively cheap fish) and try everything i could to get it to live, since its just going to die anyway in the lfs anyway, whats the diffence who kills it us or them??? Not my way but really, whats the difference? Now if every hobbist stopped buying them, then maybe they would stop selling them, but you know thats not going to happen since the lfs isn't going to tell unaware hobbiests not to buy them we will continue to see them for sale, and thats a sad thing........

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by puffer32
since its just going to die anyway in the lfs anyway, whats the diffence who kills it us or them???

I don't think that's necessarily true. yeah, there are some know nothing lfs workers out there, but many are very knowledgeable and no better than beginners/intermediates how to handle delicate species. I think sometimes on this board lfs don't get enough credit for their knowledge. the lfs around here has successfully had copperband butterflies, had 2 moorish idols eating soon after delivery, and like I said, my mandarin was fat and sassy at the lfs. when I got him home, he withered away. I had a much bigger tank and much much more live rock and sand than the lfs, so there's really no reason why he should've died, he just did.

 

[jedi]

I agree with you puffer that It is the person who doesnt care, or thinks they can, that will keep these creatures a"hot comodity" in the reef keeping world.
Just Like Finding Nemo, makes Moorish Idols the "thing to get" or clowns, etc..
But as long as there are people that are in this hobby for the long run, we can continue to educate and in my case, Boycott the purchase of certain species. In doing this, my hope is that the people who jump in then leave quickly will not have the species to pick, since contiencious keepers will not purchase them, and the LFS's will not keep them a stocked item.
Pontious, I too have seen some very good LFS workers. And yes I have seen them get Moorish Idols to eat. etc..
But, they are the first to say" dont buy this fish, it will die". Because they know they should not be kept in captivity. Unfortunatly, they dont own the stores, so they cannot control the owners stocking. They do hope, buy telling people not to buy, that the owner will stop ordering them, since they die in store and thus loose $$$.
Bottom line is this. If we, as moral individuals, continue to advice others not to buy, and refuse to purchase animals that should not be kept, the demand for them will be reduced, and hopefully less will be provided.....
Its a dream I have.......

Jedi

 

[puffer32]

a very good and humane dream, good for you jedi!

 

[sammiefish]

im a bit confused still...
has anyone had long term success with a mandarin...?
I thought I had heard of some success stories... albiet from experienced aquarium owners... is this a mistaken impression on my part?
I had one for three years then gave it to another aquarium buddy and lost track of the outcome...

 

[puffer32]

sammie, there are afew success stories, in fact if you had one 3 yrs I would consider that one of them :happy: As hard as they are to keep, if I had one that long, NO WAY would i give it up . What did you feed it???

 

[jedi]

There are some VERY experienced people here that all seem to have the same opinion. Mandarin should not be kept.
I concede that there are a few "success" stories, but I would be willing to bet the farm that those are the exception..NOT THE RULE. If say 10,000 are purchased, and we hear of 1000 that actually survived 1 year, would that be a sucess? I say no.
(those numbers are just an example) I would be willing to bet that even more than that are sold.
The point here is agian, yes he has one now, and yes he should try a, b, or c. But, since his tank is new, he has very little LR, and is not an experienced reef keeper, he should return it if possible. If more people dont buy them, and they die in the fish store, the owners will stop ordering a fish that looses them money. Basic economics.
My position comes from the side of the animal that is being starved to death because stores do not care about the fish only about the $$$
Jedi

 

[reefnut]

Mr. Bang Guy has a mating pair, which IMO is great success. That's not to say I could have the same success in my system.
I also think mandrain (along with a list of other critters) should be banned from trade.

 

[murph1455]

i have had a mandarin for over a year now and at first he was skinny and i didnt realize they were suppose to be fat.... luckily i had lots of LR and an established 100G tank that he could rome around in and pick at the pods.... i also am lucky in the fact that my mandarin eats frozen foods such as brine/mysid shrimp.....
i agree lots of LFS dont inform people of the proper needs of the animals they sell... they just want to make the sale and dont care what happens to the fish in the long run.... however i think both the LFS and buyer are to blame since a person should research what they are buying first.... there is sooo much info out there that its so easy to do and make informed discisions....
at first i was the uninformed buyer that listened to my LFS but now i know i only take what they say with a grain of sea salt

lol j/k but i lookup everything now the internet is a powerful tool....
knowledge is the key! the reason people buy mandarins is because they are so colorful and yet so cheap its an easy sale.... sad but true

 

[exile415]

Mandarin Fish need a lot of LR.

 

[xjayx]

Thank you everyone who gave me advice.
Unfortunately, after 2 days, the LFS where I got him won't take him back.
So I tried frozen foods and will try other things that I've been suggested.
But... I've got some good news (I hope)
Just a few minutes ago, I saw my mandrain picking at a shrimp at the bottom of the tank.
Maybe he got hungry enough to try it and hopefully he'll start eating more.
So I guess I should now ask that if they eat the frozen food once, is it safe to say that he'll be ok?
or even then is it possible that they would later refuse frozen food and die?

 

[jedi]

xjayx,
Your mandarin will not survive.
Period.
I cannot be any more blunt.
If you went to your LFS, and spoke to the owner/manager, and explained that his staff sold it to you without giving you proper info. I am sure he would take it back.
And if not, I would be all over that place, and beleive me, managers dont like that.
The fish will pick at some foods, but it will not be enough to sustain him and he is going to starve.
Sorry to have to be so direct, but seems that even after all the info provided you still dont fully understand.
That fish should not be kept by new hobbyists, and IMO not even available to be sold since they rarely survive.
And If an expert, or experienced hobbyist wanted one, they would make sure they had
1. A fuly established (1-2 years) mature tank.
2. An ubundance of pods
3.A whole lot of LR
4. A lot of time to dedicate to the fish.
Jedi

 

[matttamar]

I made the mistake of buying a mandarin when my tank was not very old, my lfs suggested that i feed him frozen cyclopeeze, he started eating eat at the first feeding, and has been doing well.

 

[matttamar]

I also forgot to add that you could possibly go to your lfs and ask for copods out of there tank, I asked my lfs for some and she gives them to me for free every time i go in.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by jedi
xjayx,
If you went to your LFS, and spoke to the owner/manager, and explained that his staff sold it to you without giving you proper info. I am sure he would take it back.
And if not, I would be all over that place, and beleive me, managers dont like that.
Jedi
Agreed! Too many pet stores have employees that are jaded to the fact that they are selling living creatures.

 

[bang guy]

In my opinion they shouldn't be on the banned list of imports. Hobbiests in general need to stop buying before researching their animals and LFS employees need to start researching what they sell and LFS owner need to give training opportunities. This means higher prices for SW fish but more value to the customer.
The bottom line is that the hobbiest is ultimately responsible but of a LFS doesn't know the answer to a question they shouldn't make stuff up.

 

[madison]

***Your mandarin will not survive.Period. I cannot be any more blunt. ***- Jedi
***I personnally no NO ONE who has one that survived longer than 6 months, even with the best set ups, and established tanks. ***- Jedi
I have my madarin for almost 2 years now...it was in my 55g/20g sump (since week 1 after the cycle) for over a year and moved to 90g/20g sump (day 2 after the cycle) for about another 6 months, then it moved to 180g/60g ref/sump (week 1 after the cycle).
6 months later...it's getting ready to move again into a new 300g/250g ref/sump as soon as the tank cycles.
:cheer: I guess I got lucky just like the Boston Red Socks eh? :cheer:

 

[jedi]

Originally Posted by Madison
I guess I got lucky just like the Boston Red Socks eh?
Yup I think you did get lucky Just like Boston.
Just like Lotto, millions play only a very few win.
And again, You are one of the "lucky" lotto winners. and I congratulate you. But how many of these guys have to die for the few "winners"?? :thinking:
I stand by my statements.
Jedi