Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[santamonica]

Sly, good point about the soap; I see now that I posted an earlier version of that text, will fix.
Michael, all looks good except you don't need that plexi at the bottom of the bucket.
Thauro looks like you are on your way to "zero's"

 

[santamonica]

Results of the day:
jski711 on the RF site says: "Well i ditched my euro reef skimmer and have not noticed any side effects from doing so. i'm still doing water changes on a regular basis but i have increased feedings tremendously and have no adverse side effects from doing so."
keithqueef on -- says: "Update. Well i received my screen from inland (12x12) last friday. and since putting it into my system my trates have gone from red to orange to now dark yellow not quite orange, i lost my color card so i dunno numbers. the screen is dense with it."

 

[rotarymagic]

I don't remember if it was addressed already in this thread, but I heard alot of skeptics complain about turf scrubbers yellowing the water... how does one combat this? Just take the algae plate to the sink and rinse under tap water? does the tap need to be dechlorinated?

 

[santamonica]

Yellowing apparently has been discovered in the last 3 or 4 years to be caused my scraping the screen while leaving it in the system (i.e., "in-system"), thereby allowing the contents of the algae strands to be released into the system. This causes yellowing very quickly. Older turf scrubbers were huge, especilly the ones at public aquariums, and thus the screens were not designed to be removed easily, nor did they know that they even should be removed. Nobody today, meaning in the last 3 or 4 years, has reported any yellowing. Certainly not mine... it's crystal clear. Also, many scrubber users back then would never scrape (clean) their scrbbers at all. That causes yellowing for sure. Matter of fact it's recommended to at least clean your scrubber once a week in the sink (tap water is ok), and scrape it (when needed) in the sink also. Never in the system. But if yellowing did occur for whatever reason, a monthly dose of carbon (that you need anyway to remove allelopathics) will fix it up. By the way, refugiums cause yellowing because when you harvest, you are breaking the strands while they are still in the water. And, declorinating has not shown to be needed.

 

[sly]

I cleaned my screen for the first time on 9-19 as seen in this picture:

Now it's 9-25, 6 days later and the growth is amazing:

I have never seen algae like this. The first screen had a definite smell to it but this one has just a very slight ocean smell... The algae is very dark green, thick and full. It felt very soft to the touch.

I'll try to do a water test tomorrow and see if there is any difference yet. I have noticed yet again that when I cleaned my scrubber, the ORP dropped in the tank. It was about 360 mv and quickly dropped to about 316mv when I turned the scrubber on after cleaning. My scrubber bucket keeps a little water standing in it and so it grows algae in it too. When I clean it out I suspect it is releasing some chlorophyll into the water which is temporarily lowering the ORP. The ozone quickly works to break it down and bring the ORP back up... but I'm pretty sure it's the chlorophyll that people are seeing which is yellowing the water. Since I run ozone, I'm not getting any yellowing at all. It's crystal clear. Literally.

 

[santamonica]

Wow those must be the best growth pics I've seen yet.
The first screen had a definite smell to it but this one has just a very slight ocean smell
Yes I've noticed that the first time a scrubber runs, it has the most nutrients to choose from, and tends to grow the darkest/thickest stuff then. Then you get the hair that you are getting now. Eventually, depending on the screen, flow, and lighting, you start getting thick turf. But what you have so far has to be absorbing massive N and P.
I suspect it is releasing some chlorophyll into the water which is temporarily lowering the ORP
Undoubtedly. Maybe there is some way you can disconnect the bucket from the system, and drain it to the sink, so that you can wash it with tap water for a few seconds before connecting it back. I like to clean the bottom of the bucket also, then wipe it dry with a towel.

 

[santamonica]

Ok here is a four-part video I made of the last scraping of the screen of my original bucket before I give it to the LFS to replace the tank-divider screen he's been testing. This video is low-light (with a 5 year old 2-meg camera), so you can't see the algae on the screen, but the purpose is to see the technique of screen cleaning/scraping:
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypgNfJV6gBo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9vlUorbooo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo4mBWWuuQ#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQ4Nw0pYc#

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2769741
Maybe there is some way you can disconnect the bucket from the system, and drain it to the sink, so that you can wash it with tap water for a few seconds before connecting it back. I like to clean the bottom of the bucket also, then wipe it dry with a towel.
I figured that I will probably install a tee fitting on the drain line and put a valve on it. This way I can block off the waste water from going into my tank and then I can flush the trash can out and let it drain out of the tee. This will keep the junk created during cleaning from getting into the tank.
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2769741
But what you have so far has to be absorbing massive N and P.
Phosphate is pretty high in this tank. Has been for awhile. I think that's why my corraline stopped growing. I do have some very intense lighting on the screen and I'm sure the surge device is really helping it too. When it surges it acts just like the crashing surf on the beach. It is a very good simulation actually...

 

[sly]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2769741
But what you have so far has to be absorbing massive N and P.
Phosphate is pretty high in this tank. Has been for awhile. I think that's why my corraline stopped growing. I do have some very intense lighting on the screen and I'm sure the surge device is really helping it too. When it surges it acts just like the crashing surf on the beach. It is a very good simulation actually...

 

[santamonica]

The Power Of Light, another example:
Reader "varga" on the RS site just did a cleaning and sent in these pics; here is before the cleaning... it looks like the screen has an even coverage all across it:

But here is after:

Notice that the center area has a tougher, stiffer algae that holds on stronger because it is made up of less water and more fibers (i.e., more N and P, less H20). Now why do you think that the stronger algae formed in the middle of the screen? Here's why:
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Yes, because of the lights. The screen may look evenly covered in light when you look at it, but your eyes can't tell the high power areas from the low power areas. Also, when you double the distance of the light, you would think the power of the light would be reduced to one-half; but it's actually reduced to ONE FOURTH of what it was. So when optimizing your design, you want the lights as close to the screen as possilbe, all the way across the screen.

 

[santamonica]

Many folks asked for pics of the jski711 no-skimmer tank whose test results I already posted, so here they are along with an update he posted:
"Well first i'll start by giving you a little background of my tank. its been up for 2 years now and am running t5 lighting. in the past i have had algae issues and phosphates tested above .1 from overfeeding. (i'm trying to fatten up my clowns and hopefully get them spawning). i've also got a 15g tank plumbed into my system that has a pair of mandarins in it which i am also trying to get spawning. i had a sick mandarin and dosed my tank with Maracyn to try and save him. after dosing this for a week i was unable to turn my skimmer on because it would just overflow from the medicine. after doing numerous water changes and about a month later i still was unable to turn it back on, thats when i saw [the scrubber] thread. I also had to turn off my calcium reactor because the co2 was dropping my ph too low; the bubbles from the skimmer were really helping me keep my ph up but with my skimmer not running, it had to be turned off. thats when i decided to give [the scrubber] a try. i purchased a pre grown screen from inland and off i went. since adding the "scrubber" i have noticed a major increase in ph which allowed me to turn my calcium reactor back on and get things stable again. the reactor has only been back on for about 2 weeks now and im "re dialing" it in. my ph fluctuates between 7.8 at night and 8.0 during the day. I have over 30 different types of sps in my tank, just did a quick count, and i have noticed no ill side effects at all. i have also been overfeeding a ton, especially to my mandarins! i have also noticed that the green film of algae i would get on the glass every few days has gone. I don't even remember the last time i scraped it, although in the pics you will see it needs to be done soon cause i have a ton of coraline algae on it. So IMO this "scrubber" has done wonders for me. I have been skimmerless for over 3 months now and still do my normal water changes, sometimes i do go 2 weeks but normally every weekend i do one. the turf that was on the screen from inland is still there but it doesnt seem to be spreading but not receding either. below are some pictures from today, they were just quick shots so sorry if they are blurry but you will see the colors i've got are great and like i said earlier i have had NO ill side effects at all."

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[santamonica]

Part 1 of 2:
Growth Sequence of New Acrylic Screen
The new acrylic scrubber is up and kicking. These pics were taken while the original bucket was still operating, so the growth is slower than it would have been otherwise. I'm running 3000K on one side, and 6500K on the other, as a test. It probably won't make much difference until the holes in the screen are sealed off, but here are the daily pics. The T5 light on the front has been removed so you can see the screen:
Day 1

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay01.jpg
Day 2
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay02small.jpg
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay02.jpg
Day 3

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay03.jpg
Day 4

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay04.jpg
Day 5

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay05.jpg
Day 6

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay06.jpg
Day 7

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay07.jpg
Day 8

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay08.jpg
Day 9

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay09.jpg
Day 10

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay10.jpg
Day 11 (a huge growth increase):

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11.jpg

 

[santamonica]

Part 2 of 2:
Notice that it takes several days before you can see any growth at all. And yes, I did seed the screen. Going back one day to Day 10, here are some closeups:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup1Day10.jpg
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...Day10small.jpg
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup2Day10.jpg
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...Day10small.jpg
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup3Day10.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup4Day10.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup5Day10.jpg
And here is a closeup from Day 11:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11closeup.jpg
And what it looks like out of the stand. Note the algae coming out of drain; it was almost 2 feet long before I pulled it out for this pic:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11heldup.jpg
Here's the growth on the 3000K side:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...11out3000K.jpg
And the 6500K side:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...11out6500K.jpg
Instead of following the rule of cleaning only one side at a time, I had to do both in order to measure the algae of the 3000K side versus the 6500K side. Here is what was pulled off, like pulling a rope:

Here are the algae amounts removed, after a cleaning:

And here's the screen after cleaning; this is why you don't clean both sides, becuase it leaves left nothing on the screen for filtering:

A few notes:
o The screen is only 1.5 inches from the acrylic wall, and thus some water does get on the wall. But this unit is currently not setup for airflow with a fan, and it has a lid, so the water never gets a chance to evaporate. As a result very little saltcreep forms. I think I wiped it twice during the 11 days; however it did not do anything, just redistributed the droplets. On day 11 there was a small amount of creep; when I pulled the screen out I just reached in an splashed some water on it and it came off.
o There was a great increase in algae between day 10 and 11. I've seen this many times: once the hair algae gets to a certain point, the next day it covers everything.
o When the screen get covered, algae start flowing down the scrubber and out the drain. Not a little, but a lot. It easily reached the botton of the sump 18" below. I just grabbed it and pulled it off. This might be a way to feed tangs, if the unit were placed on the hood of the tank.

 

[sly]

One problem with algae growing in the drain is that if not watched, the drain can become plugged and possibly create an overflow. I installed a PVC elbow fitting so that it could block out most of the algae from getting to the drain and also keep out light. There is a small hole drilled at the top of the elbow to break up the siphon...

 

[santamonica]

Good point, however the hole is 1.5" and the algae going through it is only about the thickness of a pencil before a pull it out. If it ever got to be much bigger, that woul mean the algae in the main section was long bursting out the top Anyways, it's good problem to have. And I have not even removed the original bucket yet.

 

[jessed]

How much did all of the supplies cost you. I was planning on building an acrylic algae filter purely for the looks.

 

[sly]

9-29 Four days after my last cleaning... This batch of algae is not as fluffy as the last. It's a little denser and tougher. Not quite as much either... but still pretty good for 4 days worth of growth.

 

[ray j neal]

What a great post. I am building something this afternoon to take care of my algae problem and high nitrates (40ppm, FOWLR). I have a tom rapids pro ps3 wet/dry. Basically all I need to do is put a piece of mesh non metal window screen below the water diffuser, on top of the filter pads? I have a 32w 50/50 PC light so that is set. Is there anything more for v1 sump besides placing a screen flat across the filter media?

 

[santamonica]

Jess: The acrylic one was about $100 from the acrylic shop, already built except for the mounts for the lights which I glued on. They still have the plans, so if you want to order your own from them you can. Then just add the lights and pipe/screen.
Sly you are probably getting less nutrients now, since many have been taken out. You'll reach a steady state after a while where it's the same every time.
Ray: In looking at a pic of the Rapids Pro HOB, I don't where it would go. Maybe you can post some pics of where you think it would gol Also, is the pc bulb about 12" long? Are you using it for tank lighting? Pics of bulb placement would help too. Is this for your 150?

 

[santamonica]

Reminder Of The Day: Flow...
The basic rule of thumb for flow for a standard pipe slot is 35 gph (US gallons per hour) (140 liters per hour) per inch (2.2 cm) of screen width. Thus a screen 2" wide would need 70 gph. This should cover the entire screen with a swift flow on both sides, and leave you with a little room for adjustment. The more flow, the better, but this amount has proven to work well. How tall the screen is does not change the gph, however; only the width does. Here is the chart:
Screen Width

[hr]
Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700