Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

santamonica

Member
reefkpr:
I would say the skimmers NH3 removal capacity via offgassing is a quantifiable amount. of course the scrubber as well has signifigant air to water contact and the fan units have even higher offgassing capacity that the non fan scrubber.
And add to this the fact that the most-desired food of algae is ammonia. So with the scrubber you get consumption and offgassing together. :)
 

stdreb27

Active Member
---Nuisance algeas would have a good chance if they'd comsume as much N/P as turf and if were given long periods of light, as turf algea is getting. Right?---
---Wrong. A scrubber is out-of-the-water, thus allowing turbulent flow across it, and reducing the amount of water blocking the light. If you put the scrubber screen under water, it will stop growing.---
This is the debate in my mind if this will be effective. why would this be more effective than a fuge full of calerpa or chaeto?
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2782056
Aztec: No time for playing, but will correct a few point (this time). You should be posting on reefs.org if you want to argue, since you obviously are just trying to gain attention by typing as much text as you can think of. And I'll be ignoring any further posts from you, so I won't here anything else you say. If anyone else wishes to do the same, just go into your UserCP, and click on Buddy/Ignore list, and add Aztec Reef in the ignore box.
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Argue your point without insulting someone, who clearly has been around here MUCH longer than you.
Besides, these posts between you 2 have been very enlightening, everything has its pro's and con's. If you can't handle that, ESPECIALLY with the claims you have at the beginning of your post, (which in my opinion is just begging for a fight) then you really need to take a chill pill.
 

santamonica

Member
"A scrubber is out-of-the-water, thus allowing turbulent flow across it, and reducing the amount of water blocking the light. If you put the scrubber screen under water, it will stop growing"--- This is the debate in my mind if this will be effective. why would this be more effective than a fuge full of calerpa or chaeto?
Several reasons:
Rapid flow: More delivery of nutrients to the scrubber.
Turbulence: Helps removes the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae.
Light: There is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4" or less. The power of light varies with the square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light.
Pulsed Flow: The option of being able to pulse the flow (and use a fan) REALLY helps get rid of the boundary layer of water, and also helps kill the green hair and brown slime that tend to cover up real turf. This is how turf algae grows on the beach, with wind and waves.
Surface Area: When you clean/scrape a screen, the surface area does not reduce.
And there are some side benefits too:
o Traps no waste/food like a refugium or DSB does; waste/food flows right past the screen.
o Does not release strands into display, like chaeto.
o Does not go sexual, like caulerpa can.
o Weighs nothing.
o Cools the water.
o Can be placed on the tank so pods drain into tank.
o Is free.
o Is portable.
o Can run two, for backup.
o Will oxygenate the tank if main return pump goes out, if the scrubber drains into the display.
 

santamonica

Member
Yes, but not the best material:
This "plastic canvas" one might be easier to get into the slot after cleaning, and the edges will not wear; it also will hold it's shape so that a solid frame may not be needed:
http://www.everythingplasticcanvas.c...h-12-x-18.aspx
This "rug canvas" is made from fiber so that algae sticks to it the best; but it does not hold its shape when wet, so it will need a solid frame. Also, the edges will wear, so the frame will have to hold the edges down:
This "tank divider" is mentioned here because you can get it in any LFS, and because they come with clip-on edges that are great frames for any screen. However the screen material itself is very thin and smooth (needs sanding) with not many holes, thus during cleaning it's hard to get algae to stay on the screen:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategor...nk%20divider/0
Overall the rug canvas will grow the most algae the quickest, but takes the most work to keep it in place. The tank divider is the easiest and most available, but you'll get a few days of no filtering after cleanings. I think the plastic canvas is best for most people; it holds algae on the screen after cleanings, and it holds it's shape when wet and when cleaning in the sink.
Many people ask about using the fiberglass screen from their windows (never use metal!). The main problem of this kind of "soft" screen will be getting it into the slot in the waterfall pipe; it will bend and fold too much. One way around this is to loop it around the waterfall pipe and attach it to itself, instead of slipping it into a slot. In this case you don't need a slot; a series of holes will work. But this screen door method is only a last resort though, and will not work that well long-term, because the algae will start blocking flow out of the pipe since it's wrapped around it (it will need to always be trimmed.)
 

santamonica

Member
Reminder Of The Day:
Lighting Duration: Set up your scrubber lighting on a timer for 18 hours ON, and six hours OFF. The scrubber itself won't care when those hours are, but if you want, you can have them on when your display lights are off, so as to help balance pH in the system.
 

jessed

New Member
Hey Santa, think you could throw some info my way.
I have a 30 gal tank and i want to build myself this algae system when i get around to it.
What kind of pumps am i going to need, i plan on having it underneath the tank.
 

santamonica

Member
Check page 1 for ideas. Screen needs to be 5 X 6 lit on both sides, or 8 X 8 lit on one side. Smaller pump 175 gph (adjustable), bigger pump 285 gph (adjustable). Lighting, one or two CFL Floodlight bulbs 23W "full spectrum" or "daylight", pointed at center of screen, and no more than 4" away. And I'd use 7-mesh plastic canvas for the screen. You can put all this in a plastic 2-gal bucket, or a small tank. Wrap with tin foil to keep much of the light from getting out.
 

santamonica

Member
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Here is a note to skimmer manufacturers, as well as manufacturers of acrylics/plastics, lighting, and pumps. One way to benefit from scrubbers is to start building them, so as to make life easier for aquarists. There is no patent, and I have no interest in building them, although designing them is fun. Promoting them is fun too. But manufacturing is not my thing, so hopefully some folks will start making at least a simple version (like the Santa Monica 120) available. Look at it like this: Manufacturers of skimmers currently make an expensive product that has pumps and acrylic/plastic parts. Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.
Scrubbers, however, do. Instead of viewing scrubbers as a make-at-home rig that stops people from buying skimmers, manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture which includes acrylic, plastic, lights, pumps, timers, fans and complex parts, all woven together. Imagine the designs that could be achieved which would allow the most water flow, the most air, the most light, all in the least space possible, and for the best price. It's a designer's dream. Sure, many folks will continue making their own scrubbers, but at some point these folks will upgrade their tanks and will not want to hassle with building larger versions. So, here are some things I thought of that manufacturers could offer:
o A simple low-cost design; just an acrylic box, preferably with a mirror inside finish. The customer would add all other parts. This is what I built.
o Complex designs that would be needed to fit into the many different places that aquarists have: Above a crowded sump, behind the tank, vertically next to tank, next to a tank in a stand-alone furniture finish, or on the wall as a decorative item.
o Skimmers designed to work with scrubbers, by having one connect/feed the other.
o Scrubber lights with built-in timers, for nanos.
o Ultra small scrubber boxes for nanos, possibly with self-contained LED lights, the size of a cell phone.
o Nano hoods with scrubbers built into them.
o Sumps with built in scrubbers, instead of built-in wet/dry's.
o Display lighting-fixtures with scrubbers connected to the back of them, such that the scrubber uses the same light.
o Tank options, such as scrubber-on-backside.
o Auto-cleaners that clean/scrub/scrape the screen automatically.
o Hand/electric tools specialized to clean the screen.
o RODI sprayers that give the screen a FW spray periodically (to kill pods), possibly doubling as a top off.
o Non-destructive pumps to get pods from the sump to the display.
o Self-priming pumps built in to scrubber, for placement on top of displays with no sump.
o Quick-disconnect waterfall pipes.
o Double and triple thick screens, which allow algae to stick better during cleanings.
o Multiple screens, with large areas for large tanks.
o Ultra thin LED powered flexible screens, which could weave around obstacles.
o Fan on a temp controller, to keep water temp preset.
o Uniquely shaped T5 panels, such as 12 X 12, to perfectly fit a screen.
o Safety switches that cut off the lights and/or flow during certain conditions.
A great first model could be targeted to smaller tanks (SW and FW) that may not have sumps, and thus would include a self-priming pump inside the scrubber. It would sit on or near the display and would pull water up to it. It would drain right back to the display, and would give the customer the option of letting the algae grow out the drain (and into the tank to feed the fish), or removing the algae as it comes out of the drain, before it gets to the display.
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aztec reef

Active Member
Truth hurts!! Doesn't ?
I'm not going anywhere. I'm not a drifter like u homie.
I'm not even. Going to waste my time replying to your nonsense, all your answers are so flawed that I could write a book about them.
Your revolutionary comments indicate your rawness in this hobby.
I won't put u in my ignore list. However ill help u expend your horizons.
U can start by participating in other threads, u might get a little more credibility.lol.
What happend to u at --? Lol.
Keep indulging your dream!
 

freejury

Member
Wow, I've been missing out on a lot for the past year. This is a great thread, lots to agree with and disagree with. After 20 years in this hobby I think I've seen it all! LOL. We were doing ATS in the mid 80's when I got started, and the refugiums and sand beds, all of it. To keep down the cost. And we built all this stuff. It all works, is cost effective, etc, for different tanks, for different reasons.
Face it everyone, all of our tanks are great experiments, or we wouldn't spend the time and money doing it. We all do it the way we think best (after a year or so of success anyway).
Bottom Line, some people like to

[hr]
around with their tanks 6 hours a day, others don't. And there is still nothing like a good water change once in a while!! :)
 

freejury

Member
just so you all dont think I'm running a 29 gal. fish only tank :) LOL
This is a 1 year old tank, started out with all frags except the open brain. The green BTA has split 3 times since this pic 12/06. I've also sold about 150 frags out of this tank since then.
Unfortunately, I am moving this month, and its all being sold.... But hey, I'll just start over in the next place I move to.
 

reefkprz

Active Member
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2784410
Currently yes.
just curious, not that its important.
honestly I think this device has many great applications, and believe I have said so in previous posts. this could be the only thread you ever participate on and I think you will have given benifit to many people by shedding new light on this oft overlooked technique.
mind you I still dont think its the "be all end all" of filtration but I definatly think it in its modified DIY configurations that have been brought up are now very practical for a lot of people.
as for aztec liking to argue.... well, if you dont have opposing views how are you going to explain things out? if information is provided on both sides of the discussion then it allows people to see more views and research themselves with key terms refferred to by both people in the discussion. Aztec and I have discussed MANY a subject, and many we probably still disagree on (in fact I am 100% sure we disagree on many things still but, that doesnt make it personal), we both have our views and people seeing us discuss them allows them to research and learn more for themselves about the things we are discussing by opening avenues of inquiry for them. A little controversy can add a lot of new information to a discussion.
though I do think some of the more personal remarks could be left out on both sides, as they dont benefit the discussion.
 

santamonica

Member
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Results of the Day:
"darkblue" on the RP site says, "Been running a 4"x10" OHF [over head filter scrubber] version on my 15g for almost 2 months already. My Nitrate reading started dropping after around 3 weeks. I've had 0 Nitrates for a month now. I'm using Seachem for my tests. The screen is just partially covered with what I think are patches of brown turf."
And "jfdelacruz", also on the RP site, says "I recently implemented this on my tank. I [originally] had an overhead filter to try and filter out a lot of detritus, and changed out filter foams every week. nitrates and phosphates were high and I had brown algae (kinda like cyano) on my sandbed already too thick to fight. I did the 2 days lights out and it took out the brown film algae. I bought a 10watt fluorescent light from carti and then cut a right fit cross-stitch cloth as my screen and layed it flat on my OHF and took out the foam. lights are on 24/7 [temporarily]. I'm on my 5th day and algae is basically non existent in the tank, while the whole cloth is covered in the same brown film algae that covered my sandbed and is starting to grow the green algae. 10,000K ung fluorescent and after day 2 it already had algae on it. on day 3 the whole cloth was lightly covered. im still waiting for day 10. also Im going on a 2nd week no water change just to try it out and so far everything's doing good. coral's are happy and clam is happy. inverts and clownfish is also happy and eating lots of cyclopeeze everyday!
Also, I'm putting together a little series on how nutrients work in our aquariums. It will hopefully help folks better understand what affects what, and how we can make things work their best. Here's the first one below. I use Salifert for my testing, so I'll just refer to them:
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