Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

santamonica

santamonica

Member
Wow Nitschke that is one cool way to solve the nano problem. That would be a perfect manufactured option for cubes. Have at it :) Also I see you solved the clogging screen wrap problem, by blocking the light from the wrapped section. Perfect. You might be able to open the slot more than 5/32 to get more flow. Shouldn't let too much light in. Also, put the biggest light you can in there, at least 23W CFL full spectrum; the one you have looks a bit small. Anyhow, good to see growth!
Todj, your numbers won't drop until you clean the screan a few times. For overflow, I recommend the Herbie tuned overflow... absolutely silent, and just needs a gate valve. Durso's have too much noise for me; since the scrubber is basically silent, any overflow noise stands out :)
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Update Of The Day: Overflow GPH and Screen Width
If you are doing an overflow feed like this:

...then the overflow gallon per hour (U.S. gph) will determine how much flow you have to work with. You have to start from there, and size your screen accordingly. The maximum flow you'll get to the screen will be what's going through your overflow now. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:
60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph
4 seconds = 900 gph
3 seconds = 1200 gph
Take this gph number that you end up with, and divide by 35, to get the number of inches wide the screen should be. For example, if your overflow was 240 gph, then divide this by 35 to get 6.8 (or just say 7) inches. So your screen should be 7 inches wide. Or you can use this chart:
Screen Width

[hr]
Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
21" 735
22" 770
23" 805
24" 840
25" 875
26" 910
27" 945
28" 980
29" 1015
30" 1050
How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. If lit on only one side, double the screen area.
When finished, this is how you want your flow to look:
 
rotarymagic

rotarymagic

Active Member
On my 15gallon nano which is going to be draining ~250gph do I need to split the drain like in your pic or can I just have all the water drain on the screen?
I was going to run a 4x4inch screen or 5x5 dunno yet.
 
lucascoatney

lucascoatney

Member
how often do you have to clean the screen? i built one that is plexi glass all around with t5's on both sides. the screen is 3 ft long and probably 8-10 inches tall.
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Rotary: All to the screen is fine. If lit one side only, use the bigger screen.
Lucas: You don't mean plexi for the screen too, do you? Anyways, here is cleaning info...
There are three reasons a screen needs weekly cleanings: 1) The FW in the sink kills the pods that will eat the algae, 2) The algae you clean off is nitrate and phosphate that you just removed from your tank, and 3) As the algae gets thicker on the screen, the outer layers start shading the inner layers, causing the inner layers to die and flow back into the tank, re-introducing nitrate and phosphate, and also yellowing the water. Thus removing the outer layers keeps the inner layers growing strong.
A new screen, seeded with spores of green algae from your tank that you rub into the screen with your fingers, will start to show visible specs or brown on day 3 (if there is enough light). You can leave the lights on 24/7 during this time to speed things up. But just leave the algae to grow for a full week. Take pictures each day (with the water turned off) so you can watch the progression later. And measure nitrate and phosphate each and every day too. Write it down. And you'll know you are reaching the first stage when the green algae start to cover up the holes in the screen.
After 7 days, it might be time for it's first gentle cleaning (not scraping). Also if you went 24/7 with the lights, go back now to 18 hours on, 6 off. Take the screen out and put it in the sink, and while lightly running tap water on it, very very lightly give it a soft rub with your fingers (not fingernails) and see if the top layers of the green algae easily come off. Don't force it, or remove it all the way to the screen (and don't remove any at all on areas that have not grown over the screen holes). Do this on ONE side of the screen), and return it to the bucket. By the way, all the green algae you removed is nitrate and phosphate from your tank.
Now wait another week. Allow the green algae to grow more than you did the first time. Again put the screen in your sink, run tap water, and use your finger (not fingernail) to remove all the long strands on ONE side (the other side), including all the thick areas. Might need a little more finger pressure than the first time. But again don't remove it all the way to the screen, and don't ever un-cover the scree holes... they need to stay filled. And again, remember to do ONLY one side. The other side needs to stay packed so it can continue to grow/filter while the side you just cleaned has a chance to catch up. The real trick with a new screen is leaving algae on the screen, because it wants to just slide right off. Months later, this won't be a problem.
Here is a four-part video I made. This video is low-light (with a 5 year old 2-meg camera), so you can't see the algae on the screen, but the purpose is to see the technique of screen cleaning/scraping:
YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypgNfJV6gBo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9vlUorbooo#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voo4mBWWuuQ#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2msQ4Nw0pYc#
 
lucascoatney

lucascoatney

Member
oh ok thanks a lot. and no my screen is that needle point stuff. its the same type that you used for your solar powered turf algae filter.
 
sly

sly

Active Member
I haven't had a problem with pods like you mentioned... All I do for mine is grab all the hair algae off that I can. It is so fluffy that it almost falls off on its own. I have seen an increase in pod population but that is very good. I have a hungry mandarin to feed...
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Not sure if it's been explained before, but what's the deal with the plastic dish/plate scrubbers floating in the bottom of the sumps?
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Quotes Of The Day:
Eric Borneman: "What turfs are, essentially, are excellent nitrogen and phosphorus uptake species, with a number of benefits over many other species: faster growing, less invasive, more efficient and less toxic than macroalgae, much more efficient by fast growth than Xenia, and far more effective in most tanks than seagrasses (which require so much more light, sediments, symbiotic microbes, benthic nutrients, and space) or mangroves. The big benefit of turfs as nutrient uptake and export, if needed or desired (by removal of the turfs as they grow), is that they grow faster than macroalgae in biomass, are generally not producers of prolific secondary metabolites (their defense and competition is fast growth), and they are confined to a specific area and are thus not invasive. Even if some get released into the tank, they are very palatable and are a treat for herbivorous fishes and invertebrates. In fact, turfs are havens for copepods, amphipods, ostracods, and polychaetes, favoring their reproduction."
Tom Barr: "You might also suggest this to folks, you can prep this [scrubber] filter very easily by using a bucket and the pump and getting a good film of growth outside (if possible , near a window with direct sun light) on the screen prior to use in the aquarium; no waiting for it to get all furry. This is pre cycling for an algae scrubber. There is a little sloughing and adaptation once you place in the tank, but this will accelerate the process. Use a bucket to prep things instead of the aquarium, this way you can get on top of things and cycle the tank much faster, essentially bypassing the cycle altogether, a so called "silent cycle". Algae remove NH4 [ammonium] directly, so there's no NO2 or NO3 build up. No need for bacteria (they will form later anyway, but will have a less prominent role). For folks that do FC ["fish cycling" in FW tanks], they should prep their algae filters in a bucket, not bomb the whole tank with NH3 [ammonia]. That's foolish to do that."
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
So what's the final consensus, do you have to get that special mesh from online, or does that standard knitting stuff work as well? Thinking of starting a scrapper myself. (Or even will patio screen or just punching holes in acrylic work?
)
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Update Of The Day:
"Christophe" on the MD site has an idea which could greatly improve a screen's performance after cleaning. As you know, after cleaning there is very little algae remaining to do any filtering. One way around this has been to clean half the screen each week, and another is to use two screens, cleaning only one screen per week. Yet another way is to pancake two screens together which makes extra deep holes for the algae to grab on to. (By the way, "rug canvas" holds on to algae much better than "plastic canvas", it's just more flimsy and hard to work with.)
Christophe's idea was to use Lego Base Plates (the ones you played with as a kid):

They are available all over the web, and at almost every toy store and discount store. The beauty of these plates is that no matter how hard you clean/scrape, algae will still remain in-between the pegs (except the first week or so, where it will all come off anyways). Of course, you'll still want to sand/scratch all the areas in-between the pegs, but overall this looks very promising, if someone else would like to try it.
One disadvantage is that the plates are not (at least that I could find) available in clear, so a light on one side does not benefit the other side like it does with a screen. But since these plates are only formed one-sided anyways, it might not be such a bad thing, and indeed would be perfect for a twin-screen one-bulb setup.
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Well there are three folks now on the scrubber builder directory who can build your scrubber for you: 2 in the U.S., 1 in the U.K. So there is no excuse to not have your own scrubber :)
http://www.**** Please stop links to other forums and competitors of SWF.com, including sites that are not direct competitors but have advertisements or relationships with them
.
.
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
Reminder Of The Day: Feeding
Here is a diagram by Eric Borneman that shows what feeds on what:

It was taken from Eric's two building block articles that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to really understand what scrubbers do:
http://www.**** Please stop links to other forums and competitors of SWF.com, including sites that are not direct competitors but have advertisements or relationships with them
.
.
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
.

Text Version: Nutrients, part 5
When Food Decomposes
Food ==> Bacteria ==> Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate ==>
==> Algae growth on your rocks and glass eats most of the
Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate.
==> The remaining Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate
stays in your water, which is what you read when you test.
Previous Versions:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients1.jpg
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients2.jpg
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients3.jpg
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients4.jpg
.
.
.
 
alexxze

alexxze

New Member
Santa Monica, I've read through the entire thread and most of my questions have been covered. I was curious however if you ever considered ripping off a handfull of the real turf algae you found on the piling during your trip to the ocean and rubber banding it to a new screen to see if you could get it to grow? Also I am considering building a custom plexi scrubber for my tank. How is yours doing and do you have any suggestions or improvements you would reccomened over your inital design? Do to space constrictions below my tank I'm considering a single sided screen design with dual (upper/lower) lights that would hang on the wall beside my tank and drain back in to the sump.
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
I don't think you can seed real turf. It just washes off. Instead just buy a pre-grown screen from IA.
My acrylic is doing great; averaging a half pound (wet) algae per week. No major mods needed to the design, yet.
I'm not sure I understand your design plan; maybe you can make a simple drawing?
 
santamonica

santamonica

Member
LEDs for Scrubbers
Many folks want to try an LED scrubber. We do to, which is why we are trying to figure them out on the scrubber site. However, they are a ways down the road; nothing to report yet. If anyone wants to try themselves, here is a starting point:
Low-Power LED panel, to experiement with:
http://www.**** no links to other businesses please
Higher-Power LED panel, not sure if enough for good growth:
http://www.**** no links to other businesses please
The deal with LEDs is that you need lots of light power to have good growth. How much is still unknown. But the above panels are cheap enough that some folks should be able to give them a try. It's just for experimenting, though. If you need results you can count on, get a 23W CFL full spectrum or bigger, or a T5HO, or halide
 
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