santamonica
Member
That one might work. A friend of mine is going to look at them in the store, along with the pumps in the nano hoods.
Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything
- Thread starter santamonica
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santamonica
Member
Update: Nutrients vs. Nutrition
It's important to understand the difference between these two words. "Nutrients" generally means Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things that you measure with your test kits, and which are also the things that nuisance algae feed on. "Nutrition", however, generally means food for corals and fish. Natural reefs in the ocean are high in "nutrition" (lots of food particles floating around), but low in "nutrients" (nitrate and phosphate). Aquariums that have skimmers, or other mechanical filters like foam or floss, are low in nutrition because the food is filtered out, but they are high in nutrients because the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate is not filtered. Aquariums that have only scrubbers are high in nutrition but low in nutrients. Aquariums with both skimmers and scrubbers are low in both nutrition and nutrients.
It's important to understand the difference between these two words. "Nutrients" generally means Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things that you measure with your test kits, and which are also the things that nuisance algae feed on. "Nutrition", however, generally means food for corals and fish. Natural reefs in the ocean are high in "nutrition" (lots of food particles floating around), but low in "nutrients" (nitrate and phosphate). Aquariums that have skimmers, or other mechanical filters like foam or floss, are low in nutrition because the food is filtered out, but they are high in nutrients because the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate is not filtered. Aquariums that have only scrubbers are high in nutrition but low in nutrients. Aquariums with both skimmers and scrubbers are low in both nutrition and nutrients.
rwrvetn
New Member
I have set up a similar unit in a ten gallon aquarium with two lights. My intermittent flow rate covers the screen with no splattering off the screen. It has been operational for three to four weeks, but has minimal algae development so far. Should I reduce the flow volume over the screen? I expected more screen growth by now--Am I just expecting too much this soon? Thanks
santamonica
Member
Flow is never the problem; you can not have too much flow. It's always too little light, too far away. Tell us about the bulb and positioning. Pics too if you can.
santamonica
Member
Part 7 of 7:
"The Food of Reefs, Part 7: Dissolved Nutrients" by Eric Borneman
"Mucus consists of mainly sugars and glycoproteins - soluble materials in and of themselves. However, the formation of mucus, and its release in a matrix of chains of these materials, may result in a particulate material. This material is both utilized directly by many organisms, and also forms the basis for a predominant fraction of the particulate "marine snow" on reefs.
"In fact, reef waters are 30-40% higher in DOM [disolved organic matter] than oceanic waters.
"In terms of determining the degree to which organisms may use dissolved material as significant source of nutrition, one may examine the surface area of the outer cell membranes exposed to such materials. In general, the larger the absorptive area, the more likely organisms are to depend on absorption. Some cell surfaces are covered with many finger-like processes called microvilli that greatly increase the surface area of the membrane. Furthermore, the presence of cilia is often a good indicator of absorptive surfaces. Perhaps not surprisingly, corals have extensive microvilli and cilia.
"Corals are able to take up various forms of both organic and inorganic dissolved nitrogen.
"Even slightly elevated nitrogen levels can quickly result in rapid increases in the density of zooxanthellae, as they use it to fuel their own reproduction" [and thus turn the coral brown]
"It is also somewhat equivocal that corals are able to utilize nitrate (which exists nearly totally in its ionic state at physiological pH) at all, and an inability to find nitrate reductase in many studies, makes the ultimate importance of this dissolved nitrogen source to corals (and anemones) rather tenuous. However, it is unambiguously true that ammonium is a sought-after nitrogen source by both coral host and algal partner.
"Humic (refractory) compounds: These yellowing compounds are typically found at relatively high levels in aquaria, and they are removed with protein skimming and activated carbon. Humic materials have been thought to be relatively inert and unavailable for use as a nutrient source. However, studies have shown that organisms from bacteria to brine shrimp (Artemia salina) can utilize humic substances as a source of nutrients.
"In terms of corals reefs, the amounts of most dissolved nutrients, except carbon in most cases, are very low.
"The higher nutrient levels may cause corals and other symbiotic partnerships to decline as the partner algae preferentially utilize the increased nutrient sources to the expense of the host. [and thus browning of the coral occurs]
"Without question, corals and many reef organisms are able to utilize dissolved nutrients to help meet their energy requirements and to use in tissue growth.
"The Food of Reefs, Part 7: Dissolved Nutrients" by Eric Borneman
"Mucus consists of mainly sugars and glycoproteins - soluble materials in and of themselves. However, the formation of mucus, and its release in a matrix of chains of these materials, may result in a particulate material. This material is both utilized directly by many organisms, and also forms the basis for a predominant fraction of the particulate "marine snow" on reefs.
"In fact, reef waters are 30-40% higher in DOM [disolved organic matter] than oceanic waters.
"In terms of determining the degree to which organisms may use dissolved material as significant source of nutrition, one may examine the surface area of the outer cell membranes exposed to such materials. In general, the larger the absorptive area, the more likely organisms are to depend on absorption. Some cell surfaces are covered with many finger-like processes called microvilli that greatly increase the surface area of the membrane. Furthermore, the presence of cilia is often a good indicator of absorptive surfaces. Perhaps not surprisingly, corals have extensive microvilli and cilia.
"Corals are able to take up various forms of both organic and inorganic dissolved nitrogen.
"Even slightly elevated nitrogen levels can quickly result in rapid increases in the density of zooxanthellae, as they use it to fuel their own reproduction" [and thus turn the coral brown]
"It is also somewhat equivocal that corals are able to utilize nitrate (which exists nearly totally in its ionic state at physiological pH) at all, and an inability to find nitrate reductase in many studies, makes the ultimate importance of this dissolved nitrogen source to corals (and anemones) rather tenuous. However, it is unambiguously true that ammonium is a sought-after nitrogen source by both coral host and algal partner.
"Humic (refractory) compounds: These yellowing compounds are typically found at relatively high levels in aquaria, and they are removed with protein skimming and activated carbon. Humic materials have been thought to be relatively inert and unavailable for use as a nutrient source. However, studies have shown that organisms from bacteria to brine shrimp (Artemia salina) can utilize humic substances as a source of nutrients.
"In terms of corals reefs, the amounts of most dissolved nutrients, except carbon in most cases, are very low.
"The higher nutrient levels may cause corals and other symbiotic partnerships to decline as the partner algae preferentially utilize the increased nutrient sources to the expense of the host. [and thus browning of the coral occurs]
"Without question, corals and many reef organisms are able to utilize dissolved nutrients to help meet their energy requirements and to use in tissue growth.
santamonica
Member
Do post pics/stories...
coralreefer
Active Member
im doing this on my soon to be 75 reef. ive heard great reviews
bs21
Member
with keeping lps/sps corals with high alk and calc demands while using a scrubber dosing/water change has to be done to replace these elements? My initial read of this thread made it seem like this was a non issue but after more reading it seems the algea removes large ammounts of these elements along with waste.
Also why not use a skimmer along with the scrubber to help form getting high levels of dissolved organic nitrogen which seems to be a downside of a pure algea scrubber system? This way you still get the complex food webs and balanced ph (if you run the scrubber on reverse light cycle) but help to reduce excess ammounts of food/waste that will accumulate from large feeding.
Also why not use a skimmer along with the scrubber to help form getting high levels of dissolved organic nitrogen which seems to be a downside of a pure algea scrubber system? This way you still get the complex food webs and balanced ph (if you run the scrubber on reverse light cycle) but help to reduce excess ammounts of food/waste that will accumulate from large feeding.
santamonica
Member
with keeping lps/sps corals with high alk and calc demands while using a scrubber dosing/water change has to be done to replace these elements?
A scrubber does not use any calcium, and really, not much alk (compared to stony corals).
the algea removes large ammounts of these elements along with waste.
Algae does not remove fish or coral "waste". Fish and coral waste is food for other corals and small fish. Scrubbers keep this stuff in the water. (Skimmers, however, remove it). Scrubbers instead remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what you get after bacteria eats waste.
Also why not use a skimmer along with the scrubber to help form getting high levels of dissolved organic nitrogen which seems to be a downside of a pure algea scrubber system?
Not sure what you are saying here, but: DON is food, and it is in the food that you feed your tank. Why would you want to remove it with a skimmer? Let it stay in the water and feed the corals.
A scrubber does not use any calcium, and really, not much alk (compared to stony corals).
the algea removes large ammounts of these elements along with waste.
Algae does not remove fish or coral "waste". Fish and coral waste is food for other corals and small fish. Scrubbers keep this stuff in the water. (Skimmers, however, remove it). Scrubbers instead remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what you get after bacteria eats waste.
Also why not use a skimmer along with the scrubber to help form getting high levels of dissolved organic nitrogen which seems to be a downside of a pure algea scrubber system?
Not sure what you are saying here, but: DON is food, and it is in the food that you feed your tank. Why would you want to remove it with a skimmer? Let it stay in the water and feed the corals.
santamonica
Member
Update: Other ways to reduce nutrients
If you are using a scrubber, here are some other permanent ways to reduce nutrients (aside from feeding less), starting with the easiest first:
o Remove floss/foam/socks (they trap food and cause it to rot).
o Remove chaeto (also traps food and causes it to rot).
o Remove bio balls (or similar media) slowly (they create excess nitrate, and trap food).
o Remove all sand in your sump (food settles in sand and rots); if anything, use LR.
o Use kalkwasser (lime water) in your top-off (the higher pH causes phosphate to precipitate).
o Change any area of the sump that lets food settle to the bottom; all food should
continue through the sump and back to the display (this is why an open sump is best).
o Reduce sand in your display to 1/4 inch (6mm), or increase it to 4 inches (10cm).
o Using an ultraviolet sterilizer also helps reduce phosphates, but it also kills the live
pods that come from the scrubber; thus it's not recommended for normal use.
If you are using a scrubber, here are some other permanent ways to reduce nutrients (aside from feeding less), starting with the easiest first:
o Remove floss/foam/socks (they trap food and cause it to rot).
o Remove chaeto (also traps food and causes it to rot).
o Remove bio balls (or similar media) slowly (they create excess nitrate, and trap food).
o Remove all sand in your sump (food settles in sand and rots); if anything, use LR.
o Use kalkwasser (lime water) in your top-off (the higher pH causes phosphate to precipitate).
o Change any area of the sump that lets food settle to the bottom; all food should
continue through the sump and back to the display (this is why an open sump is best).
o Reduce sand in your display to 1/4 inch (6mm), or increase it to 4 inches (10cm).
o Using an ultraviolet sterilizer also helps reduce phosphates, but it also kills the live
pods that come from the scrubber; thus it's not recommended for normal use.
saltwaterbliss
New Member
Hello,
We are new to the saltwater world.yayayay..my husband bought me a 55 gal tank for christmas, it has 75 lbs live rock, 2-3 inch base of live sand, (in Feb we added) 2 feather dusters, 3 small snails, 3 big snails, 2 sea star's,(in March we added) 2 clown's, , 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 flame scallop,, 1 emereald crab, & 1 neon gobi. My filter systems are: Fluval 305, Whisper 40 & Pengwing Bio Wheel 350. I had had my water tested over a dozen times at my local LFS and they said my water was great!! Well I now have a beautiful carpet of cyano! And Yes I use my own tap water, the LFS said it was good, so ok...I bought my own test kit and it the results were:
Pohspate is.... 0
PH is .............8.2
Ammonia is..... 0
nitrite is .........0
Nitrate is .......30 (go figure we own a dairy farm!! Who would have thought!
cyano in bloom!!
so the search began, and I found this thread!
It took me 3 days to read all the post on this thred!! Lots of info! Thank you!
Has any one tried an over the back system? Our tank dose not have a sump and is not drilled for one, and I'm not big on the sumpless kind as our tank is in the living room...How do you gage if you flow is right? Thats really the only part were struggling with. My husband wants to have an idea of how that works before we build one and order the established allgea from IA....
We are new to the saltwater world.yayayay..my husband bought me a 55 gal tank for christmas, it has 75 lbs live rock, 2-3 inch base of live sand, (in Feb we added) 2 feather dusters, 3 small snails, 3 big snails, 2 sea star's,(in March we added) 2 clown's, , 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 flame scallop,, 1 emereald crab, & 1 neon gobi. My filter systems are: Fluval 305, Whisper 40 & Pengwing Bio Wheel 350. I had had my water tested over a dozen times at my local LFS and they said my water was great!! Well I now have a beautiful carpet of cyano! And Yes I use my own tap water, the LFS said it was good, so ok...I bought my own test kit and it the results were:
Pohspate is.... 0
PH is .............8.2
Ammonia is..... 0
nitrite is .........0
Nitrate is .......30 (go figure we own a dairy farm!! Who would have thought!
cyano in bloom!!
so the search began, and I found this thread!
It took me 3 days to read all the post on this thred!! Lots of info! Thank you!
Has any one tried an over the back system? Our tank dose not have a sump and is not drilled for one, and I'm not big on the sumpless kind as our tank is in the living room...How do you gage if you flow is right? Thats really the only part were struggling with. My husband wants to have an idea of how that works before we build one and order the established allgea from IA....
saltwaterbliss
New Member
I forgot to mention is my powerhead quit...I'll be getting 2 or 3 on monday! Would I need RO if I use this method? I thought the good allgea eats the nitrates?
coralreefer
Active Member
would this work?
bs21
Member
Originally Posted by saltwaterbliss
http:///forum/post/3002806
I forgot to mention is my powerhead quit...I'll be getting 2 or 3 on monday! Would I need RO if I use this method? I thought the good allgea eats the nitrates?
it does but personally i would rather remove them at the source as opposed to after introducing them into the tank. the less you have going in the more room you have for tank inhabitants to cause them.
http:///forum/post/3002806
I forgot to mention is my powerhead quit...I'll be getting 2 or 3 on monday! Would I need RO if I use this method? I thought the good allgea eats the nitrates?
it does but personally i would rather remove them at the source as opposed to after introducing them into the tank. the less you have going in the more room you have for tank inhabitants to cause them.
saltwaterbliss
New Member
ok, it makes sence......I thought I'd just buy DI water for now
santamonica
Member
I'll just comment on the scrubber... if you don't like the sumpless... then why not make a HOT version like was posted a few days ago...
santamonica
Member
Update: Screen roughness
If your screen is only growing little spots of algae here and there, it means the screen is not rough enough. What is happening is that algae is trying to attach and grow all over the screen, but the water washes the algae away. Only a few areas have enough roughness for the algae to hang on in the water flow. So, you need to remove the screen and really really really sand/scrape/rough it up. If it's a clear screen (i.e., acrylic), you should not be able to see through it. If it's a plastic canvas screen, it should feel prickly. For highest results (and highest maintenance)... rug canvas works the best, but it only lasts so long before it comes apart. Then you have to make a new one. Whatever you use, make it as rough as possible.
If your screen is only growing little spots of algae here and there, it means the screen is not rough enough. What is happening is that algae is trying to attach and grow all over the screen, but the water washes the algae away. Only a few areas have enough roughness for the algae to hang on in the water flow. So, you need to remove the screen and really really really sand/scrape/rough it up. If it's a clear screen (i.e., acrylic), you should not be able to see through it. If it's a plastic canvas screen, it should feel prickly. For highest results (and highest maintenance)... rug canvas works the best, but it only lasts so long before it comes apart. Then you have to make a new one. Whatever you use, make it as rough as possible.