Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

santamonica

Member
Several updates:
1. Does anyone know of a diver, or can you post on a site with divers, who can take some pics and videos of reef water? What is needed is this: The diver takes a camera and a piece of black cloth/plastic/etc to a reef location; he holds the black sheet about 24 inches from the camera, and takes hi-res pics and video of the plankton floating between the camera and the sheet. Hi-res would be important because of the small particle sizes. Being near corals would be important because that's where the corals feed. And doing it at night would be a great plus, since that's when more plankton is out. Daytime will suffice, however. The purpose of this is to show that reefs really are packed with food particles, and are not "polished" the way reefers "think" they are.
2. Replace bulbs every 3 months, even when they look fine.
3. Clean pump in vinegar every 6 months, even if you think it runs fine.
4. "Turf" is not the goal; Green hair is the goal. It filters the best, because it lets light get to the roots, and it lets water flow throughout the strands. If you start getting real turf, remove it with a hacksaw blade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9fMdJRmYGM
5. Since the current scrubber recommendations are different from the original recommendations at the start of this thread, here is a new scrubber introduction which could replace post number one: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AlgaeScrubbers.doc
6. The two most important quotes I've found so far:
"Where deep lagoons are formed, coral growth, especially of Acropora, can be prolific"
"Contrary to popular belief, species diversity is not at its highest on the scenically attractive reefs found in clear oceanic water. It reaches a peak for any given region on fringing reefs protected from strong wave action, where the water is slightly turbid."
-- Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27
Why? Because it shows that there is more coral growth in lagoon areas than on reefs. How is this? Since lagoons have more algae, they have less nutrients, and more organics (food), than reef fronts (data easily found in reference studies). And that's what corals, especialy SPS, need to grow. Reef fronts (where mostly Acro's grow) actually have higher nutrients and lower organics (food) than lagoons. Why then are there mostly Acro's on reef fronts? Because Acro's don't break under wave action like other corals, and therefore Acro's have less competition (also taken from Corals of the World, Vol 1 page 27).
7. Do you like to research reefs and corals and nutrients etc? Start here:
http://www.reefbase.org/resource_center/publication/main.aspx
 

santamonica

Member
After over a year of testing, here is the first functional prototype of the Santa Monica 25 Nano scrubber, made pretty much from the plans that were posted here last year.






















 

ryandefones

Member
I am excited to see the Nano Scrubber in action, I have been skimming through this and one other thread for the past hour in a half so now I am wondering if I should continue with a sump for my ten gallon nano or mimic a turf scrubber similar to your's Santamonica.
 

ryandefones

Member
I don't think it's necessarily hard, just requires patience and all the right tools. Where'd you get the steel base from if you don't mind me asking? and are you using a pump or just hanging the scrubber above the tank?
 

santamonica

Member
Here is a video of what Dr. Walter Adey (inventor of the scrubber) was doing 20 years ago, in addition to working on scrubbers:
http://vsx.onstreammedia.com/vsx/pbssaf/search/PBSPlayer?assetId=68119&ccstart=0&pt=0&preview=
 

santamonica

Member
Successes:
Calvin415 on the scrubber site: "I think the results are outstanding, by far the cleanest tank I've ever had with the least amount of maintenance. I clean the scrubber once a week, skimmer once every two weeks, and clean the film off the glass once a week... I don't hold back on feed, I feed frozen, pellets, arctic pods and phytofeast all the time!"
Srusso on the RC site: "My last harvest was my heaviest yet! I am not weighing my harvest yet but man when your scrapping over an inch thick layer of algae off your screen you feel like you can truly feed your tank any mount of food!! I actually tell other people its "ok" to feed the fish! I should have made it clear that this is two total inches. Once on each side of my screen."
Eums on the RC site: "Tank PH is rock solid stable at 8.41-8.44 PH (with the skimmer it would swing 0.15). Only need to clean the front glass every week or two. Nuance algae is gone (got a frag with GHA and the GHA died off). Cleanup crew is small (2 turbo,7 astraea, 4 certh, 5 margarita, 5 trochus, 1 Nassarius). Dont need to worry about over feeding, has no impact to the tank other than more food for the micro fauna. Increased micro fauna (tons of red feather dusters, pods, etc). Happy fat fish from all the food available, water clarity improved (tint gone, no longer running carbon)"
Maglofster on the RC site: "So far I am amazed! Almost no algae in the DT since startup, and I have been flooding the tank with food. For example, today: 6 cubes Supershrimp, 2 cubes Formula2 and 2 cubes Lobster eggs. Without the scrubber I'm sure there would have been lots. Also I only have Riffkeramik (from Korallenwelt) which is supposed to give lots of algae (during startup) due to it's content of silcates, almost none of that either. So to summarize.. I'm a happy camper!"
King_richard on the RC site: "My little update on the scrubber. For the first two weeks of my redone scrubber I was rinsing the screen and occasionally scraping it every 3 days or so since the black stuff was covering it rather quickly in areas. It's about time for another cleaning of it either today or tomorrow but I did a water change the other day and tested only for nitrates which are now pretty much 0, I can't see any color difference and the natural seawater that I use has the same reading of 0. So within the two weeks of my rebuilt scrubber, my nitrates have dropped from the almost 5ppm to 0ppm. Also, in the older thread, I was the one who had the nasty case of green water, well our water is now crystal clear and my standards for calling it crystal clear are rather high, lol. The only things in the water column are food that we feed and live food from the dsb and scrubber that make it into the display tank. It's clear enough that you don't see the light rays penetrating through the water if that makes sense."
Acts4me on the RC site: "WOW is all I can say! I have had my scrubber running since [2 months earlier]. I posted pics of the algae farm I had going on. I have cleaned my scrubber twice and almost all of the algae is gone from my display tank. I thought it would take much longer. I still have a few patches but the bulk is gone. I am going to build scrubbers for the rest of my tanks starting tomorrow. The ATS is the single best addition to my tank I have done as far as equipment goes."
Fragfarmer on the scrubber site: "this is really helping my tank a lot!! I've been plagued with slimey green cyano in my tank for months. It's disappearing. Getting thinner and lighter shade of green every day. I'm so happy to see coraline growing on my glass again, instead of green slime. Thank you!! I can't completely express my gratitude from behind this keyboard."
Harry_y on the RC site: I made mine [scrubber] out of a storage bin. The nice thing is my tank is doing better now than it ever has, I feed heavier and I'm not skimming out the food that the corals want"
Slow_leak on the RC site: "I have run ATS since September following these guidelines. SPS have grown and people in local club have commented that SPS are growing out nicely. I have a continuous diatom problem before the ATS and that was gone in two weeks. Only trace valonia remains. SPS are easy this way. Soft corals have not flourished as well in this lower nutrient system, but that is not my goal. Unfortunately I had one fish that never reacted well to captivity die after year. The ATS handled it very well. It is a very very forgiving system that most people run with an old set up or incorrectly maintained. I haven't had any [coral] bleaching since I started and will keep it long term."
Fragglerocks on the RC site: "starting levels: Nitrate was around 30, P04 was a whopping 2.21 YIKES! after a month and half with the scrubber: Nitrate: ZERO!!! P04: 0.11 and still steadily dropping! Tested with Hanna meter. My feeding schedule - I feed 2 frozen cubes a day of assorted store bought foods, i try to mix it up a little, but the equivalent is 2 cubes per day. I also feed a pinch of flakes once a day and dose 2 cap-fulls of DT Phyto once a week. I have no protein skimmer anymore, I sold my Tunze months ago. I no longer run phosgaurd since adding the scrubber. The only thing I do is a 2 part dose weekly, Iodine every once in a while, and I run carbon in the sump. I don't do water changes anymore, just top-offs. and with all this feeding the fish are fat, corals healthy and growing (mix of SPS, LPS, and softies...), and macro in the DT has been dwindling since adding the scrubber. Actually, the reason I wanted to add the scrubber to begin with was the overgrowing macro in the DT. I wanted a natural and gradual way to get rid of it without the use of chemicals, and this has worked wonderfully. Just make sure to clean the screen weekly. I just wanted to add that the day I learned about algae scrubbers was one of the best days in my saltwater journey, thank you Chris! The scrubber has put an end to one of my biggest concerns with my tank, and a great side-effect is that it oxygenates the water and all the corals/fish are extremely well fed and thriving. all of my sps are super happy now and the growth is exponentially faster than when I diddnt have the scrubber and only ran the skimmer. In fact, I had a tri-color colony about 6 inches x 7 inches that had been slowly STN'ing for over 6 months, 3 weeks after I added the scrubber it started coloring up again, stopped stn'ing, and has been showing signs of new growth. I encourage you to set up a small experimental tank. get a biocube or aquapod and fill it with your choice of sps, good lighting, and sufficient flow. Add a scrubber and let us know what happens".
Bguile on the RC site: "I think I'll go ahead and chime in on this one since I've been running skimmerless on my 210g since [7 months earlier] and setup a new 40g that has basically been only ATS since it was built [3 months ago]. I haven't done a water change since it's been running, water parameters stay unusually stable and my ammonia, nitrates, and phospates are all or very very close to 0. In fact, I started overfeeding the system when it only had inverts in it to start the algae growth on the ATS. I had NEVER fed so much to a tank filled with fish for fear of algae and cyano. Back [7 months ago] I decided to try going skimmerless on my [other tank] 210, after I wasn't getting the success I thought I should with it. I immediately noticed that the small corals I did have began opening and growing like gangbusters. However, I wasn't keeping up with water changes as I should have been and algae and cyano went crazy too. Just as I decided to build a smaller reef tank and make the 210 a FOWLR, I happened upon ATS' looking for nitrate reducing solutions. So after I tested the ATS on my 40g. I'm in the process of redesigning it to an enclosed unit, but it's maintaining the system the way it is. To really clean up the sand I need to add approx another 100W of light [to the scrubber] but since it's becoming a FOWLR, I haven't put much urgency on it. In closing, I must admit I'm VERY excited about the results that ATS's have shown me and that my limitations (read, money) have now been removed for me to run as many specialized tanks as I would like without the need to purchase an expensive skimmer. Oh...I wanted to add that I NEVER had any of the diatoms that usually shows up in new tanks using the ATS. Since it's been installed, I've only run into one problem when I started seeing a hairy type algae poking out of my sand. I found out I was choking off my return flow by not removing the included mechanical filter on my Eheim. Once I removed that within days the algae was gone and I once again have clean grey/white sand!!"
Nac on the scrubber site: "Nitrate and Phosphate levels are at zero at last test. No water changes ever, and had fish for 6 weeks now. Algae on the live rock, which was growing like crazy, is starting to slowly subside. The growth on the screen is still pretty dark, I'm cleaning it twice a week. I put both lights on one side of the screen, might add wattage."
Dlp40 on the scrubber site: "Well since my last post a few weeks ago I think i have finally gotten my ATS working. I tested the water today and from 20ppm nitrate to 0.00ppm and po4 of over .2 down to unmeasureable. Not to say i haven't had my snags in the 2 months I have been using it, but it's well worth the trouble. I mean I havent done a water change in 2 months, this has already paid for the ATS twice. another testimit on how much i like this DIY filter is, even when i had the wrong screen and lights on it, my algea from the tank disapeared. I had a few rocks completly covered with hair algae and it disapeared in less then one month."
Maxhtic on the UR site: "No need to spend your cash for all these unecessary "media"... my oppinion and personal experience. Alga Turf Scrubber mate... and you will NEVER spend any more money on filtration, saving extra cash every month for livestock. Simple as that - give it some chance and you will change your reefing procedures for ever."
Albass15 on the UR site: "build yourself a turf scrubber. I only do a 20 percent water change once a month and my nitrate and phosphate is zero."
Mrbncal on the RC site: When I set this 75 back up 4 years ago I battled with my Euroreef skimmer for 7-8 months. Every couple of weeks it would go into overflow mode for a couple days and flow teh skimmate back into the tank. Things looked horrible every time it would overflow. Just got sick of dealing with it. I unplugged it and let the tank go. Three months with no attention. Almost tore it down. 90 days later when I scrubbed the front glass I was surprised to find that things had gotten better since turning off the skimmer. So i left it like that for about a year and a half. But hair and bubble algae had a serious foothold. I couldnt feed much. Then I read the articles on ATS's and eventually decided to try one. So I built a bucket scrubber and haven't looked back. Is it tank of the month material? No. But my maintenance time is a lot less than those guys also. I still have great growth on corals and most important I enjoy the hobby again. My only source of cal/alk is kalk in the top-off water and I run a bag of chemipure hanging in the sump. I have not changed any water since [6 mo ago] (30 gal). (I had a hot day prior to hooking my chiller up and things got a little soupy, stupid gamble and I lost a few corals). I have been running ats since [14 months ago]. Anemones, tubeworms of all types(cocoworms), photosynth gorgs and LPS as well as green slimer and birdnest, pocillipora have all grown very well. My scrubber is underpowered, I use a MJ1200. So my algae is browner than what it should be. I am using 120 watt equivilent indoor/outdoor CFL bulbs. They have a 3500K rating, which is why they are kind of yellow. I alternate changing the bulbs out. So one bulb is replaced every month and a half (this is apprx, I try to use the bulbs 3to4 months). I have some plans to redo the scrubber but it works so well right now I keep putting the rebuild off. I have a slow drip on the pipe in the pic above, you can see some salt creep everywhere. Another thing that needs redoing. The scrubber gets cleaned at least every 2 weeks, but I really try to clean it every Sunday morning. I get a coffee cup full of algae every time as long as I am feeding regularly. Right now though, the limiting factor on my scrubber is flow. I only have about 3/4 of the flow that my screen size demands according to the guidelines (35gph per inch of screen). Once I replace that with a 350+ GPH pump my algae should green up. I havent checked N&P since it went to 0's or undetectable. Took a sample to the store and they verified my results with their test. So I assume its still there as I dont have any indication it has changed. I have not checked Cal/Alk/PH lately either. The clams are putting on new white growth, the grape and red monti caps are getting big. Acros dont grow as fast as the guys with cal reactors I spose, but they do pretty well."
 

santamonica

Member
Adey is applying for a patent on something you may have seen and read about before..... 3D algal turf screens. Seems like it would have been obvious :) ...
http://www.google.com/patents?id=7atgAQAAEBAJ
 

santamonica

Member
Here is a complete cleaning video (with one hand, and with no sound) of a mature screen from one of the two SM100 scrubbers on my tank. It shows how to clean the acrylic box, the acrylic window, and how to scrape off the turf. About one pound of algae (wet) is removed total, including the algae in the box. Most new screens less than a year old won't have any turf, but this screen is well-grown-in so the turf must be removed every 3 months or so, to give the green hair algae a place to attach to the screen.
Cleaning is done slowly, so you can see all the steps; if I were in a hurry, I could do it all in 5 minutes. Also, the box is full because I let it grow as much as possible (about 2 weeks) to show the 3D growth for the video; you would not normally let it fill up so much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QAxuofJeeE
Shortcuts:
00:30 - 3D close up
03:45 - Turning off pump
06:10 - Removing screen
08:50 - Screen scraping
13:55 - Putting screen back in pipe
15:20 - View the algae in the box
17:35 - Putting pipe back in box
18:40 - Water flow again in clean box
19:00 - Cleaning window with toothbrush
 

saltyjoe

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SantaMonica http:///forum/thread/330606/mega-powerful-nitrate-and-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything/1320#post_3383749
Adey is applying for a patent on something you may have seen and read about before..... 3D algal turf screens. Seems like it would have been obvious :) ...
http://www.google.com/patents?id=7atgAQAAEBAJ
Well, if it can be shown that the 3d concept was in use or even contemplated before the application date, he will not very likely be awarded a patent.
 

santamonica

Member
For those who are using tap water for top-off or water changes:
Tap water sometimes contains copper to kill unwanted things. Algae eats copper, as long as the copper is not added to much, too fast. If the copper is added too much, too fast, it will stop the algae from growing for a while. So to prevent your scrubber from being affected by this, try to make sure you have as much algae on your screen(s) as possible when you add the tap water. In other words, don't clean your screen(s) before you add the tap water.
 

santamonica

Member
Three things...
1: Here is a CFL reflector comparision video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6MJAe1KQME
2: Here is a video of roughed-up screen material:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S7804w9nNw
3: Here is a video of an encrusting yellow sponge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6sCDUA-tAA
More sponge pics; it came out of nowhere and started growing in low-light areas, especially towards the power head, since it needs lots of flow and food particles:


 

desertdawg

Member
I have always had some encrusting sponge growing with the scrubber, I had some lime green and blue/grey for awhile but lost it when we tore the tank doen to tile the house. probably about 3 seconds of exposure to air and it was gone.
I now have some pink sponge spreading in the shade...
 

santamonica

Member
I wonder how easily this kind of spong can be propagated in the tank. I took small pieces of coralline that the sponge grew on, and moved them near other powerheads with similar low lighting, but they have just stayed the same size.
 

desertdawg

Member
You should be able to get it to grow with enough nutrients in the water, I'm not sure it really needs the strong flow right next to the power head since all of mine has always grown down in the rocks where there is just some flow, no direct light exposure just enough to not be dark...
Now you have me thinking. I'll try to split some of mine up and see where I can get it anchored and if I get any more growth.
 

santamonica

Member
A reminder about lighting:
Stronger lighting is always better, until you start "burning" the algae. Burned algae will be yellow, because it is getting too much light but not enough nutrients from the flow. More light requires more nutrients, which give you more filtering.
So if you have yellow growth, increase the flow so that more nutrient are delivered to the algae. If you can't increase flow, then add some iron. If you can't add iron, then reduce the number of hours the lights are on. Do not reduce the wattage, however; stronger light for less hours is better than weaker light for more hours, because weaker light will grow darker algae. Stronger light grows bright green algae, which does the most filtering.
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Jeez, I remember this thread from way back!
I am going to be building an in-sump version of a turf algae scrubber that is one sided. I am buying a 10g tank divider sold at the local pet store and then cutting everything to fit. I am trying to think of a better material to use, but I'm at a loss. I need something that semi-floats for the screen. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
The other turf algae scrubber I am building is for a 110g show tank. It will also be an in-sump version that is built vertically. It's a commercial tank, meaning it's located in a business - so you know what that means! Heavy feedings... I am going to take as many pics as I can of the build and use so that I can back up SantaMonicas claims.
 

santamonica

Member
This is an experimental fix for brown/black growth, and also for extending the life of the bulbs past 3 months:
1. Use bulbs with twice the wattage as recommended; so use 2 real watts per square inch (6.25 sq cm) of screen. Thus a screen 10 X 10 inches = 100 square inches would get 200 total real watts of light instead of 100 watts.
2. Run the lights for half as many hours as recommended; this would be 9 hours instead of 18.
3. Around 3 months, when the growth starts to get darker (because the bulbs are getting weaker), start increasing hours until it grows green again. When you reach 18 hours, it's time for new bulbs.
This does a few things: The first is obvious; you will get longer bulb life as long as you remember to increase the hours when you get to 3 months. But stronger light can also turn black/brown growth into green, no matter how high the nutrients are, if the light is strong enough. The trick is just to not burn the algae; thus the hours have to be less.
When the light is strong (compared to the nutrients), more of the growth is physical algae, and it's also more green (less proteins). When the light is weak (compared to the nutrients), more of the growth is DOC and dark physical growth (more proteins).
 
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