Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[santamonica]

This one is a very nice build from someone who knows how to work with acrylic. It's another elevated-screen setup, and the main advantage of his is the 33 watt CFL's on both sides. Lighting will not be a problem here:

By the way, many folks are tie-wrapping thier screens to the pipes. I did not do this, but it could indeed be useful. However it does mean you'll need to take the pipe out with the screen each time.

 

[iyachtuxivm]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2751132
This one is a very nice build from someone who knows how to work with acrylic. It's another elevated-screen setup, and the main advantage of his is the 33 watt CFL's on both sides. Lighting will not be a problem here:

By the way, many folks are tie-wrapping thier screens to the pipes. I did not do this, but it could indeed be useful. However it does mean you'll need to take the pipe out with the screen each time.
Its brighter under the tank than in it! looks great nice design!

 

[stdreb27]

I'm going to try and build something this weekend. I'm going to use the return from the main tank to "power" it. And see, because I a tired of seeing my sand turn brown.

 

[santamonica]

Make sure to T-off from the return, and use a ball valve to adjust the flow.

 

[santamonica]

A Fourth User Gets Results!
This is the guy who, when he posted his results on --, all the clowns started shouting as loud as they could to drown him out. His post came right after I posted the Third User with great results, so the clowns started hitting their post keys in rapid succession (amazing how -- allows personal attacks). His username on -- is Navipro1, and if anyone here has an account there, please invite him to come here for reading and posting, since my -- account is now deleted.
Anyways, his results-post was short and sweet, since he did not tell us ahead of time that he was trying a screen:
"I tried it on 1 of my tanks which always had hair algae problem, I have a refugium for the system but never worked that well, after I implemented this idea, most of my hair algae problem is gone and I can really feed my corals / fish more now and run the lights for a longer photo period, I was sceptical at first but decided to give it a try, I'm glad I did, its now paying off BIG TIME!"

 

[thauro77]

Ok. I strat noticing red algae on my tank, not much but I see that it's growing in it. How many hours a day I have to leave the lights on? Also I noticed that the return hose from the sump is alrady full on the inside, is all covered with red algae on the inside. I knwo I need to scrubb this off since it will clog my return hose. Is there anything I can do to avoid this? I am assuming that the algae grows in the hose because its also exposed to the light. Should I "tape" this hose whit colored tape or something to avoid the growth of algae on the inside? Please let me know what I can do about this and how many hours I should leave the lights on.

 

[santamonica]

I strat noticing red algae on my tank
I think you mean red algae on your screen? You can leave the lights on 24 hours for the first week or so, then leave them on 18 hours, and 6 hours off. Don't work about algae in your vinyl tubes... will only grow a bit and stay that way... it will not clog anything. I've had algae in the return hose for years.

 

[santamonica]

The Power Of Light.
Here's an interesting growth sequence. This fellow started out with just a low power NO tube, on one side. After switching to a 23W CFL, things changed:

 

[acrylic51]

Hey SM....good info....tried following the thread over on --, but got really muddled with the bashing,....I'm interested to see how the outcome is or was at your LFS.....

 

[santamonica]

Thanks, Yes, since -- allows personal attacks, including on family members, I figured that was enough. And testing is continuing at the LFS with interesting results

 

[santamonica]

Part 1 of 2:
It's Time For The Santa Monica 120 Acrylic!
Ok it's time to move my screen from the ugly bucket by the sink (with hoses, wires, timers, etc) to under the tank where it can sit on the sump. The idea for this design came from all the readers who tried to install their screens over their sumps. Low profile is important for me, as it is to anyone without a fish room, so I picked 6" as the max height. That would give me room to lift out the screen and pull it out of the stand, with room to spare. And at 6" height, the pvc pipe will take up 1", leaving 5" for the screen. So the screen will be 5 X 24 = 120 sq in. This is good for a decently-stocked 90 like mine, or a lightly stocked 200 with no real nutrient problems. Here is the initial layout that I gave to the acrylic shop:

Wide screens like this are more efficient and powerful (with the same light) than tall narrow screens, but require more flow. My screen will need 24" X 35(gph/in) = 840 gph. However the same 120 sq in screen placed vertically would only need 5" X 35(gph/in) = 175 gph. The vertical placement has a disadvantage in that the water at the top gets filtered by the top of the screen, but then has to travel over the lower parts of the screen. Since it's already been filtered at the top, not much happens on the bottom part of the screen. This problem is eliminated with a horizontal screen since all the water that passes over the 5 inches of screen needs filtering.
Another good use for a low-profile screen like this would be for on-top of tank, when you want the pods to drain directly down into the display. Or, if you don't have a sump, the on-top placement would work great if you put the pump in the display.
The acrylic box came back from the acrylic shop, finished beautifully. They still have the plans, so if anyone wants the same box, call Hastings Plastics at 310-829-3449 and say you want the "aquarium algae filter screen box". The only change would be the "U" cutouts for the pipe: Tell them to make them a little larger round, and a little deeper, since the pipe was hard to push into them (and it stuck out a bit which made the lid not close all the way. ). I did a little grinding, and now it's perfect. The cost was about $100, without shipping. Here's how is arrived:

Unwrapped. Notice the bottom and ends are mirrored acrylic, with the mirror facing inwards:

The lid fits mirror-side down:

The pipe fits snug so that little light will escape. I had to grind the "U" cutouts a little bigger and deeper so the pipe would not block the lid:

The lid fit perfectly after the pipe cutouts were enlarged:

I removed the bulbs, and got 6500K and 3000K from here:
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics....-c-73_623.html
I'm going to set it up with 6500K on one side and 3000K on the other. Nobody recommednds 10K for macros, except for one person: The guy at Inland Aquatics that has been growing turf screens for 10 years. So, I'll try 10K soon, but not to start. Maybe you can start with 10K on yours and let us know how it works

 

[santamonica]

Part 2 of 2:
Then I placed the lights on the acrylic and marked off where the the bulbs will be shining through:
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Some method has to be used to mount the lights to the sides. I'm using acrylic blocks and acrylic glue:

The light-mounting is a bit tricky, because the lights need to be removeable, yet be pressed up against the acrylic to minimize light leakage (which would be important for an above-the-tank placement in plain view). The lights are then placed in the mounts:

The overall size ended up being 6.5" high X 6" deep X 24" long:
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Here's a size comparison; the inside of the stand was once filled with filtration devices, and now it's just water:
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Taped and ready for spray painting:
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First coat was a metallic silver, so that the inside would reflect more:

After painting with black primer, and putting lights on:

End view:

Side view:
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Lid off, ready to use:

The long, low-profile pipe and screen:

Lights on:

Setting on sump:

Running, with front light removed to see flow:

So, I rubbed algae from my original bucket into the new screen, then installed the screen and turned it on. I'm starting with the flow and lights on 24 hours, in order to speed up the growth. I'll decide later if I'm going to pulse the flow, and I'll wait for the algae to grow a bit before putting the lights on a timer. Also, there is no fan, because I wanted to make it as simple as possible for folks who wanted to try it themselves. I may try a fan later, but for now let's see how it does without one. Also also, I'm leaving my original bucket running, for safety, but of course this will slow down growth on the new screen.

 

[sly]

Looks good... SWF.com has a picture limit of 10 per post. Do you think you could take out some of the pics to limit it to 10 and then put the rest in another post? I'd like to see the ones that didn't show...

 

[santamonica]

How about this:

 

[sly]

Does the type of screen material matter? I'm using a regular fiberglass window screen. I'm getting some growth but not as fast as some others... I'm also wondering if my trashcan is too hot. The lights are down in the trash can with the lid on. It gets pretty warm in there. I haven't installed a fan yet as I want to see if it will work without one but so far the growth seems pretty slow.
I'll post pics tonight.

 

[thauro77]

Ypu should patent your design and registe the rights and then get ready for the money my friend>>>>

 

[santamonica]

Sly, post the pics and let's look. Especially pics down by the bottom of the screen so I can see how much flow is coming off.
Thaura I'm not going to be making these things, I just like designing them and spreading the word. I will, however, soon be posting some ideas for you other folks to build and market and sell them.

 

[santamonica]

After having run my screen(s) for a while, I'm noticing an interesting situation with the nitrate that might be of interest. This really on applies to other folks once they's already reduce N and P to near zero, but it might good to know for others too.
After getting N and P to zero (Salifert hobby test kits), and keeping everything the same for a few days, I notice that the N start showing again, very very slightly, starting with a barely visible tint (maybe a .1 on the Salifert color scale), then more visible pink (about a .2), and if I leave things alone for a week, it might go all the way to 3. This is happening while P remain zero (absolutely clear on the Salifert phosphate color scale).
Now, I sometimes do over-feeding tests, using massive amounts of stuff that would be considered "pollution" by some folks, and sure enough when I do this I get a small increase in N, but also in P. Then when I go back to normal feeding, the levels go back to zero. But the situation I'm talking about here is not during an over-feeding test. It's just feeding and doing everything else at normally. After about a week the N start a very slight increase, but there is NO increase in P.
So after thinking about what I learned about the relationships between N and P, I remembered that you can sometimes have one of them limiting. I reasoned that P might be limited, and without P the screen can't grow to absorb the N. I wanted to just add P but did not know how, so instead I just fed a bit more. Presto! Zero N again. And again, and again. Every time my normal feeding habbit saw a small rise in N (but not P), it was corrected every time by feeding more! Now that is a nice problem to have. It since has been explained to me why my particular tank might be limiting in P, something to do with my dripping kalk and not using a CO2 reactor. But the solution that was offered was the same: Feed more.
Now of course in order for anyone to get to the point of (possibly) experiencing this situation, you first would have to get your screen to a functioning status, and get your N and P to zero. But it's just one of the smaller points to keep in mind as you fine-tune your setup.

 

[santamonica]

A Reader Pulls the Plug!
"Scuba Pro" on the UR site has some good results to tell; here are his complete posts:
9/3: Santamonica after reading through the thread and instructions carefully I am going to give it a try as I like feeding my fish well, means I have bought a skimmer yet I don't like using one due to the food it takes out. I have a couple of questions though: I am going to be doing the sump design version 3. 1) Will the fact that I am not using any timers to create wave affects really affect algae growth that much?? 2) Could I split my display outlet in two and create two of these filters? My sump has four sections! Or would this cause the flow over the sheet to be too slow??
9/9: Well I have set-up the sump version 1 a couple of days ago and its already going very brown. I have decided to actually make either sump version three using a pump or a bucket version on top of my sump, just haven't got the time at the moment. I take it you mean Nitrate and Phosphate readings when referring to N and P?? Also I don't understand why anyone is doubting this. In a natural environment there are no skimmers or mechanical filtration what so ever its all done by nature itself which is basically what we are trying to achieve surely? I can't see there being any drawbacks from trying to put a naturally run filtration system on your tank. I mean Eric Borneman, who in my eyes is one of the best reef keepers and has written books which should be read by anyone looking to succesfully keep a reef aquarium, has a system set-up where by he has a reef tank connected to other tanks where sea grass and other nutrient exporters grow. Now I know this an extreme case but this is ultimately what we are trying to achieve. How people can use their skimmers and UV's and external filters and say that there could be negative effects on your aquarium using a natural fltration method is beyond me. Personally I love the look of this and can totally understand how it works and I have no doubts wether it does or not!!! Just putting my tuppence worth in, not meaning to offend anyone just my opinion.
9/10: Well here are pics of my quick bodge job!! lol. Haven't had time to do it properly. Santamonica can you tell me if it is time to use my fingers under the tap yet?? [pics were not useful]
9/14: Well I have some good news. I decided to turn off my skimmer 4 days ago and took a nitrate reading of 25. I gave the screen half a clean under the tap 3 days ago and now it has gone mental algae blooming. So i decided to take a nitrate reading today before doing a waterchange and they hadn't budged still at 25 maybe even a little lower. This is awsome. I feed very heavily in my tank and I usually have to clean the glass everyday. Since 3 days ago I havent had to touch the front glass with an algae cleaner and the sides the algae is receding. My sand is also not getting any browner either which would definetly happen if the skimmer was off usually. I upgraded my lighting though to a 18w gro light and a 60w reptile light when turning my skimmer off and this has helped greatly. I am also only using about 2/3rds of a 12x12 screen one side!!!!! WOOOHOOO Gonna do a waterchange and keep an eye on the nitrates but I am impressed so far!!

 

[sly]

Here's how mine is doing so far:
9-12 -Day 7

9-14 -Day 9

I haven't tested the water yet so I can't report any parameters.