Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything
- Thread starter santamonica
- Start date
santamonica
Member
That will work. Anything to start getting the algae spores into the screen.
santamonica
Member
Reader Hits Zero!
'Gone Postal' who is on the RS site, becomes the first homebuilt screen user to reach zero nitrate. No pics from him yet, but he says, "My trates hit 0 for the first time in the 5 months that my tank has been up. The lowest i had ever gotten them to was 5. I built my setup [9 days ago]. I have some growth, but nothing too spectacular. The screen is completely covered in brown, but it seems as if it's just surface algae - not really hair algae, etc like I'd originally expected. Comes off really easy. If I just wipe my finger across, the screen is clear again."
And here's a second person below, with the build-of-the-day. He says "I am currently running this system, and I'm hoping to reduce my nitrates from a steady 20 down to zero. Here's my set up on the 2nd week. (water is supplied from the output of my UV filter)". Note that he drilled his pipe, instead of cutting a slot in it; he said he did not have a rotary cutting tool, and thus he had to make it only one-sided:
'Gone Postal' who is on the RS site, becomes the first homebuilt screen user to reach zero nitrate. No pics from him yet, but he says, "My trates hit 0 for the first time in the 5 months that my tank has been up. The lowest i had ever gotten them to was 5. I built my setup [9 days ago]. I have some growth, but nothing too spectacular. The screen is completely covered in brown, but it seems as if it's just surface algae - not really hair algae, etc like I'd originally expected. Comes off really easy. If I just wipe my finger across, the screen is clear again."
And here's a second person below, with the build-of-the-day. He says "I am currently running this system, and I'm hoping to reduce my nitrates from a steady 20 down to zero. Here's my set up on the 2nd week. (water is supplied from the output of my UV filter)". Note that he drilled his pipe, instead of cutting a slot in it; he said he did not have a rotary cutting tool, and thus he had to make it only one-sided:
sly
Active Member
I performed the mod you suggested by using two lights. I put them down low so that they fall in the middle of each side of the screen. I sealed all the openings with silicon and wrapped the base of the bulb in electrical tape to seal out mosture... I also installed a GFCI in this circuit (VERY IMPORTANT IMO)...
Will post pics as soon as I start to see some algae.
The reason I am doing this is because phosphate is very high in this tank. I'll post results as soon as I see any.
Will post pics as soon as I start to see some algae.
The reason I am doing this is because phosphate is very high in this tank. I'll post results as soon as I see any.
santamonica
Member
Can't wait 
Do you know the test numbers of P and N?
Do you know the test numbers of P and N?
santamonica
Member
Perfect... large amounts of both If you have some Kent's Iron, dose it too. Otherwise, now it's all about light and flow (and more light).
If you have some Kent's Iron, dose it too. Otherwise, now it's all about light and flow (and more light).
thauro77
Member
Ok, so I have this kit called Reef Master Test Kit. It has instruction and chemicals to measure Calcium, Carbonate Hardness, Phosphate and Nitrates.
The readings I got on 08/28 (assuming I did it right) were:
Calcium 660mg/l
Carbonate 11 ppm KH
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 20ppm
Readings on 09/04 Two days after building phosphate and nitrate remover
Calcium 500mg/l
Carbonate 12ppm/KH
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 10ppm
How do I measure ammonia and others if I have to measure any others. Also. on top of salt and water rinse to remove elements from tap water, what else am I supposed to add to water. I get confused and honestly I don,t know what to add to have good quality water for the fish and corals
The readings I got on 08/28 (assuming I did it right) were:
Calcium 660mg/l
Carbonate 11 ppm KH
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 20ppm
Readings on 09/04 Two days after building phosphate and nitrate remover
Calcium 500mg/l
Carbonate 12ppm/KH
Phosphate 0.5
Nitrates 10ppm
How do I measure ammonia and others if I have to measure any others. Also. on top of salt and water rinse to remove elements from tap water, what else am I supposed to add to water. I get confused and honestly I don,t know what to add to have good quality water for the fish and corals
santamonica
Member
I use and recommend Salifert:
http://www.***********.com/test_kits_salifert-ap.html
Ammonia should not be a concern at this point since you are already up and running. Turf will devour ammonia anyways. As for the other parameters, I'd rather not get into those here; best if you do a search for "water parameters".
http://www.***********.com/test_kits_salifert-ap.html
Ammonia should not be a concern at this point since you are already up and running. Turf will devour ammonia anyways. As for the other parameters, I'd rather not get into those here; best if you do a search for "water parameters".
sly
Active Member
Originally Posted by SantaMonica
http:///forum/post/2746455
If you have some Kent's Iron, dose it too.
Tis dosed...
http:///forum/post/2746455
If you have some Kent's Iron, dose it too.
Tis dosed...
michael1972
Member
How are you afixing the screen to the pvc pipe ?
and when you clean and wash it wiht fresh H2o do you take the hole thing down or snap the screen out or something i think this is the only thing holding me up.
and when you clean and wash it wiht fresh H2o do you take the hole thing down or snap the screen out or something i think this is the only thing holding me up.
santamonica
Member
Check the build pics on the first page. All you do is raise the waterfall bar off the screen, then lift the screen out of the bucket.
sly
Active Member
Originally Posted by MICHAEL1972
http:///forum/post/2747021
How are you afixing the screen to the pvc pipe ?
and when you clean and wash it wiht fresh H2o do you take the hole thing down or snap the screen out or something i think this is the only thing holding me up.
On the picture above I made the top PVC pipe large enough to hang on some hangers that are in my bucket. I used some plastic conduit hangers that I got from Lowe's similar to these:
I superglued them to the side of the bucket and then drilled a couple of holes for each one and used wire ties to hold them in place. The screen sits on the hangers and the spray bar is mounted about 1/4" overhead.
The spray bar itself is a 3/4" PVC pipe with a small slit cut in it with a dremel. Water falls down through the slit and hits the PVC pipe that the screen is attached to. Because of the adhesive property of water, it runs around the pipe and onto the screen without any splashing. The bottom PVC pipe attached to the screen is to act as a weight to hold it down. This pipe sits below the water level in the bucket so that there is not any splashing there either.
http:///forum/post/2747021
How are you afixing the screen to the pvc pipe ?
and when you clean and wash it wiht fresh H2o do you take the hole thing down or snap the screen out or something i think this is the only thing holding me up.
On the picture above I made the top PVC pipe large enough to hang on some hangers that are in my bucket. I used some plastic conduit hangers that I got from Lowe's similar to these:
I superglued them to the side of the bucket and then drilled a couple of holes for each one and used wire ties to hold them in place. The screen sits on the hangers and the spray bar is mounted about 1/4" overhead.
The spray bar itself is a 3/4" PVC pipe with a small slit cut in it with a dremel. Water falls down through the slit and hits the PVC pipe that the screen is attached to. Because of the adhesive property of water, it runs around the pipe and onto the screen without any splashing. The bottom PVC pipe attached to the screen is to act as a weight to hold it down. This pipe sits below the water level in the bucket so that there is not any splashing there either.
santamonica
Member
Part 1 of 2
2 Weeks Overload At the LFS!
One day I was in my LFS, and he was complaining of N and P being "crazy high" in one of his FO retail displays. I looked at what he was currently doing for filtration... G4 skimmer, bio balls, Phosban reactor, 2 Ocean Clear mechanical filters, and a UV on a 300 gal FO display, and he is feeding 16 cubes a day. He is currently building a custom acrylic waterfall box turf filter like I outlined in the first page of my -- post, but it's not finished yet. He says he has to keep N and P under control by changing 100g every two weeks. The bio balls seem mostly under water; to me, that would reduce their power. Also he thinks he might need to remove the mechanical filters.
Since my bucket-build thread was done, and since I completed the pics of it for the first week, I thought it was wasting its potential trying to filter my 90 since my 90 also has the original pre-grown turf bucket already working. So I asked the LFS guy if he'd like to borrow my bucket. He said yes, so I went right away to get it, and told him to measure N and P meanwhile. I had to wrap the screen in wet towels to keep it from drying out, but otherwise the whole bucket was light and easy to carry in the car. When I got there he showed me his test (Red Sea, I think), and they were deep dark colors. But I wanted to use Salifert so they'd correspond with my tank, so I used my kits to measure: N = 50, P = Off the chart (very deep dark blue). His main goal was to stop the daily rise in N and P, especially N, which had been rising an average of 1 per day.
So we set the bucket on top of his sump so it would just drain down, and hooked up one of his pumps to the waterfall pipe (no wavemaker timer), and hooked up the lights to one of his timers (18 hours on), and away it went. Here are the day-by-day measurements:
....................N...........P.............Comment
.
day 1..........50...........1.5+............
day 2..........50...........1.5+............
day 3..........50...........1.5+............
day 4..........50...........1.5+.........Cleaned; Iron added
day 5..........*............*...............Not measured; Original diatoms gone
day 6..........*............*...............Not measured; Waiting for WC
day 7..........*............*...............Not measured; he did 100g WC
day 8..........50...........1.5+.........WC did almost nothing, N and P same
day 9..........45?..........1.5+.........Screen about 75% full
day 10.........45...........1.5+.........Screen about 80% full
day 11..........*............*..............Store Closed Labor Day
day 12..........*............*..............Store Closed
day 13.........40?..........1.5+........95% full; bottom completely full
day 14.........35!..........1.5+........Starting to develop spots; Cleaned
And here are the pics:
First, here is the left half of the display, and the right half (all are one system connected together):
. . . .
Here's the bio balls in the sump; Note high water level:
[pic limit]
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSbioBalls.jpg
His G4 skimmer and Phosban reactor:
r />
[pic limit]
His mechanical filters:
[pic limit]
Here's the bucket as delivered, with screen wrapped to stay wet:
[pic limit]
The bucket was put behind the wood shelves, on top of the sump, between the tanks:
[pic limit]
Day 0: This is the screen as delivered, after the one-week test thread was finished:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay00.jpg
Day 1, Cleaned bottom of bucket:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay01.jpg
Day 2:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay02.jpg
Day 3:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay03.jpg
Day 3, Removed:
(hi-res was blurry)
Day 3, Cleaned:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y03cleaned.jpg
Day 4:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay04.jpg
Day 5: Skip
Day 6: Skip
Day 7:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay07.jpg
2 Weeks Overload At the LFS!
One day I was in my LFS, and he was complaining of N and P being "crazy high" in one of his FO retail displays. I looked at what he was currently doing for filtration... G4 skimmer, bio balls, Phosban reactor, 2 Ocean Clear mechanical filters, and a UV on a 300 gal FO display, and he is feeding 16 cubes a day. He is currently building a custom acrylic waterfall box turf filter like I outlined in the first page of my -- post, but it's not finished yet. He says he has to keep N and P under control by changing 100g every two weeks. The bio balls seem mostly under water; to me, that would reduce their power. Also he thinks he might need to remove the mechanical filters.
Since my bucket-build thread was done, and since I completed the pics of it for the first week, I thought it was wasting its potential trying to filter my 90 since my 90 also has the original pre-grown turf bucket already working. So I asked the LFS guy if he'd like to borrow my bucket. He said yes, so I went right away to get it, and told him to measure N and P meanwhile. I had to wrap the screen in wet towels to keep it from drying out, but otherwise the whole bucket was light and easy to carry in the car. When I got there he showed me his test (Red Sea, I think), and they were deep dark colors. But I wanted to use Salifert so they'd correspond with my tank, so I used my kits to measure: N = 50, P = Off the chart (very deep dark blue). His main goal was to stop the daily rise in N and P, especially N, which had been rising an average of 1 per day.
So we set the bucket on top of his sump so it would just drain down, and hooked up one of his pumps to the waterfall pipe (no wavemaker timer), and hooked up the lights to one of his timers (18 hours on), and away it went. Here are the day-by-day measurements:
....................N...........P.............Comment
.
day 1..........50...........1.5+............
day 2..........50...........1.5+............
day 3..........50...........1.5+............
day 4..........50...........1.5+.........Cleaned; Iron added
day 5..........*............*...............Not measured; Original diatoms gone
day 6..........*............*...............Not measured; Waiting for WC
day 7..........*............*...............Not measured; he did 100g WC
day 8..........50...........1.5+.........WC did almost nothing, N and P same
day 9..........45?..........1.5+.........Screen about 75% full
day 10.........45...........1.5+.........Screen about 80% full
day 11..........*............*..............Store Closed Labor Day
day 12..........*............*..............Store Closed
day 13.........40?..........1.5+........95% full; bottom completely full
day 14.........35!..........1.5+........Starting to develop spots; Cleaned
And here are the pics:
First, here is the left half of the display, and the right half (all are one system connected together):
Here's the bio balls in the sump; Note high water level:
[pic limit]
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSbioBalls.jpg
His G4 skimmer and Phosban reactor:
r />
[pic limit]
His mechanical filters:
[pic limit]
Here's the bucket as delivered, with screen wrapped to stay wet:
[pic limit]
The bucket was put behind the wood shelves, on top of the sump, between the tanks:
[pic limit]
Day 0: This is the screen as delivered, after the one-week test thread was finished:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay00.jpg
Day 1, Cleaned bottom of bucket:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay01.jpg
Day 2:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay02.jpg
Day 3:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay03.jpg
Day 3, Removed:
(hi-res was blurry)
Day 3, Cleaned:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y03cleaned.jpg
Day 4:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay04.jpg
Day 5: Skip
Day 6: Skip
Day 7:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay07.jpg
santamonica
Member
Part 2 of 2:
Day 8:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay08.jpg
Day 9:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay09.jpg
Day 10:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay10.jpg
Day 11: Skip
Day 12: Skip
Day 13:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay13.jpg
Day 14:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay14.jpg
Day 14, Removed (flash); Removed (no-Flash):
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14removed.jpg
Day 14, Closeup of spots:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14closeup.jpg
Day 14, Cleaning:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...14cleaning.jpg
Day 14, Cleaned:
[pic limit]
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14cleaned.jpg
Day 14, reinstalled:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...einstalled.jpg
Results:
[pic limit]
Now, this bucket is way undersized for this application. It's only 144 sq in, with just average CFL lights, and the lights are not right-up-next to the screen (due to bucket design) the way they should be for optimum performance. His tank is 300 gallons, highly fed, with no rock and no sand. But the idea is not to see if N and P can be reduced; instead it's to see how fast a screen can grow with basically unlimited nutrients. Secondarily, yes, I'd like to see how much of a dent an undersized screen can make in N and P, as long as it is cleaned properly.
His main objective (not mine) was indeed N and P reduction. So on day 3, I figured I'd clean the screen even though it still had bare spots on it (it had only had a week to grow on my tank). The screen is not his only filter, so I did not have to clean just one side. Pulling out the screen, it was apparent that the stronger growth was on the upper part, near the light, showing once again the importance of strong light. I cleaned both sides and put it back.
He could not wait any longer and said he needs to change water to get the numbers down. He did a 100 gal change (on 300 total volume) on Day 6, and I came back on Day 7 to measure: Almost no change! I think he's got detritus in the bio balls or the mechanical filter, or somewhere. Nevertheless, it's still a good nutrient source for my growth test.
Growth is solid again by Day 8. Have not seen this type of growth before... big clumps of dark brown slimey stuff, right next to areas of empty screen. Mine had always filled in evenly, but this is doing it in clumps. Almost looks like someone threw mud on the screen. Regardless, the flow goes right over the clumps with no problem. This time, I'm going to let the screen fill up before I clean it, otherwise only the same areas will start growing.
By Day 13, the bottom of the screen was packed, and the top had only a few empty places left. The N test looked like it was coming down, but I did not really expect it too since the tank was so heavily loaded. I wanted to clean the screen that day, but the LFS guy was impressed that the N was not rising like it usually does, and even possibly dropping. Day 14, the end of two weeks, the N actually tested about 35. He was amazed, since it normally goes up every day. He wanted to keep it as-is, but I could see some spots developing on the screen from the pods, so I said we better clean it now.
After pulling the screen out, it was easy to see the spots. It had been 10 days since cleaning; way overdue. Definitely time to clean under tap water. The feel of the algae was amazing... like tar spilled on the beach that had been drying for a while. The screen seemed to weigh a full pound. I put it in the sink and just pushed the algae off the screen with my fingers (not fingernails). This was not turf, but it was thick and heavy. There is no timer on this setup, just constant flow, so I'm not really expecting turf to develop anyway.
So I put it back into operation. He's still waiting on his custom acrylic box to be delivered, so until then this bucket will have to work alone.
Day 8:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay08.jpg
Day 9:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay09.jpg
Day 10:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay10.jpg
Day 11: Skip
Day 12: Skip
Day 13:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay13.jpg
Day 14:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSscreenDay14.jpg
Day 14, Removed (flash); Removed (no-Flash):
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14removed.jpg
Day 14, Closeup of spots:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14closeup.jpg
Day 14, Cleaning:
http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...14cleaning.jpg
Day 14, Cleaned:
[pic limit]
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...y14cleaned.jpg
Day 14, reinstalled:
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/LFSs...einstalled.jpg
Results:
[pic limit]
Now, this bucket is way undersized for this application. It's only 144 sq in, with just average CFL lights, and the lights are not right-up-next to the screen (due to bucket design) the way they should be for optimum performance. His tank is 300 gallons, highly fed, with no rock and no sand. But the idea is not to see if N and P can be reduced; instead it's to see how fast a screen can grow with basically unlimited nutrients. Secondarily, yes, I'd like to see how much of a dent an undersized screen can make in N and P, as long as it is cleaned properly.
His main objective (not mine) was indeed N and P reduction. So on day 3, I figured I'd clean the screen even though it still had bare spots on it (it had only had a week to grow on my tank). The screen is not his only filter, so I did not have to clean just one side. Pulling out the screen, it was apparent that the stronger growth was on the upper part, near the light, showing once again the importance of strong light. I cleaned both sides and put it back.
He could not wait any longer and said he needs to change water to get the numbers down. He did a 100 gal change (on 300 total volume) on Day 6, and I came back on Day 7 to measure: Almost no change! I think he's got detritus in the bio balls or the mechanical filter, or somewhere. Nevertheless, it's still a good nutrient source for my growth test.
Growth is solid again by Day 8. Have not seen this type of growth before... big clumps of dark brown slimey stuff, right next to areas of empty screen. Mine had always filled in evenly, but this is doing it in clumps. Almost looks like someone threw mud on the screen. Regardless, the flow goes right over the clumps with no problem. This time, I'm going to let the screen fill up before I clean it, otherwise only the same areas will start growing.
By Day 13, the bottom of the screen was packed, and the top had only a few empty places left. The N test looked like it was coming down, but I did not really expect it too since the tank was so heavily loaded. I wanted to clean the screen that day, but the LFS guy was impressed that the N was not rising like it usually does, and even possibly dropping. Day 14, the end of two weeks, the N actually tested about 35. He was amazed, since it normally goes up every day. He wanted to keep it as-is, but I could see some spots developing on the screen from the pods, so I said we better clean it now.
After pulling the screen out, it was easy to see the spots. It had been 10 days since cleaning; way overdue. Definitely time to clean under tap water. The feel of the algae was amazing... like tar spilled on the beach that had been drying for a while. The screen seemed to weigh a full pound. I put it in the sink and just pushed the algae off the screen with my fingers (not fingernails). This was not turf, but it was thick and heavy. There is no timer on this setup, just constant flow, so I'm not really expecting turf to develop anyway.
So I put it back into operation. He's still waiting on his custom acrylic box to be delivered, so until then this bucket will have to work alone.
thauro77
Member
I just drilled the pvc tube and fit the screen in. I have not washed this with water yet, but since I used the same hose it was on place from the current sump system all I need to do is to remove the whole pvc tubing with the screen attached. I use some plastic white to hold the screen on place, since it does not stays straight. So the only thing I need to do when needed is to remove the tubbing and that's it.
santamonica
Member
thauro don't forget to rotate the clip on light so it points at the center of the screen. Do you have lights on both sides?
sly
Active Member
Originally Posted by MICHAEL1972
http:///forum/post/2747021
How are you afixing the screen to the pvc pipe ?
Sorry... I missed this part. I put a line of superglue on the pipe and glued the screen in place. I used the blue line that was already printed on the pipe as a guide.
As I mentioned above in an edited post, I also installed a GFCI on this circuit to shut off the power if there is a short to ground. I want people to be aware of the dangers of saltwater and electricity.... Seal your wiring well.
http:///forum/post/2747021
How are you afixing the screen to the pvc pipe ?
Sorry... I missed this part. I put a line of superglue on the pipe and glued the screen in place. I used the blue line that was already printed on the pipe as a guide.
As I mentioned above in an edited post, I also installed a GFCI on this circuit to shut off the power if there is a short to ground. I want people to be aware of the dangers of saltwater and electricity.... Seal your wiring well.
santamonica
Member
Today's screen of the day is the simplest one so far, complete with postitive test results. He says:
"After 4 days running, i has a green hair algae growth around 3-4 cm... and i didn't see any brown diatom algae. i use OSRAM 23W tornado day light. in the picture...this is 6 days result... the algae is a brown color... but the real is a green hair algae.... and this is just a test... so i use a small screen.. but i already see the result here. i didn't rub the algae to start... just has 24/7 lightning time. i just check my N yesterday [Day 10]... it's down greatly.. from 50 ppm become 35 ppm... and my P remover has work slower.... i always change the P remover once a week.... but it's already 2 weeks i didn't changed."
"After 4 days running, i has a green hair algae growth around 3-4 cm... and i didn't see any brown diatom algae. i use OSRAM 23W tornado day light. in the picture...this is 6 days result... the algae is a brown color... but the real is a green hair algae.... and this is just a test... so i use a small screen.. but i already see the result here. i didn't rub the algae to start... just has 24/7 lightning time. i just check my N yesterday [Day 10]... it's down greatly.. from 50 ppm become 35 ppm... and my P remover has work slower.... i always change the P remover once a week.... but it's already 2 weeks i didn't changed."