Mixing Saltwater?

[rbaby]

Hi guys,
I'm getting a really good deal on a new tank and instead of a 30 gallon I might get a 60 gallon. Since I buy my water pre-mixed, the only way that I would keep the 60 gallon is if I started to mix my own water.
We have a RO filter here at home that filters all of our water so my tap water is actually pretty good for it. Do you still recommend that I get another RO unit specifically for this purpose...and has anybody had any experience with the product by the manufacturer "Kent"? I was able to find a listing online that involved a $75 R/O unit by Kent. Is this a good deal?
I've never mixed my own saltwater, the one time I tried turned out disastrous. Any tips? Is there a law as to how many ounces of salt per gallon or something to that sort? It would help a lot if there was a stone-written rule like that.
When they say pre-treated water, what does that mean? Does that mean it's just RO water or do they put extra chemicals in it? Thanks again, I appreciate your help.

 

[goldpuffer]

RO water will be fine. Don't add any type of chemicals to your water. Mixing your water is pretty easy. It all requires measuring. It will tell you on the bag how much salt to use. Get yourself a set of measuring cups to use when you mix the water. You will also need a hydrometer to tell you the specific gravity which should be between 1.020 and 1.024. My water is at 1.022. A Five gallon bucket will help with the water measurments. Usually half a cup per gallon of water. So that would be 2 and a half cups of salt for 5 gallons of water. Its easy, you can do it!:jumping:
We have the same type of job.

 

[bang guy]

I also agree with the refractometer purchase but I would suggest looking only at the Salinity scale and go for 35 or 36ppt. The Specific Gravity scale on Refractometers is not accurate and should be ignored IMO.
Add 4 gallons of cool RO water to a bucket, slowly stir in 2 cups of salt mix & stir like mad. The faster the salt dissolves the higher its quality.
Test for Salinity after an hour and mix in more salt until you get 35ppt.
Aerate the salt for 24 hours, warm to reef temperature and then do your water change.
It sounds like a lot but it will quickly become routine as your skill increases.
If you see a lot of precipitate (white dust) on the bottom of the bucket then test it for Calcium & Alkalinity. As you gain experience you'll know how much precipitate to expect from your salt and only test when it doesn't look quite right.

 

[excalibur]

Me I test me tank and find the salinity. the salt I use says 1 cup for every gallon, I add the proper amount to the 5 gal of ro water I have I pop in a heater and a power head and let it mix for a few hours. some times overnight if I get lazy, I double check the tank water and the mixed water, Then add the new water., best thing to do instead of picking up 5 gals. of water and pouring it in. Is it get a water pump or powerful power head after mixing get some tubing to fit over the return port and just pump it into the tank, Bucket stays on the floor, tank doesn't get disturbed to much.

 

[rbaby]

My friend says that it's really difficult to dissolve the salt in root temperature and what he would do is basically take 25% of the water and warm it up enough to dissolve the salt. He'll put all the salt in that warm/hot water til it's all gone then he'll mix it in the big batch. Do any of you guys recommend this procedure?
I plan on just buying a brand new plastic garbage pail that I saw on Target and fill that up with all saltwater. Is this bad? Where do you guys store your water?

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by rbaby
My friend says that it's really difficult to dissolve the salt in root temperature
The warmer the water the less Carbonate and Magnesium will dissolve. These two trace ingredients are very important to maintaining high water quality. This is why I suggest mixing in cool water and warming to reef temp just before adding it.
I use a 32 gallon Brute to store my water. I have a largr system than you though. I would suggest a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[bang guy]

Has nothing to do with quality.
Refractometers measure refraction only, not any other qualities of the water.
The amount of salt in the water changes the refraction of the water in a predictable manner and therefore the Salinity can be directly measured.
The density of the water also affects refraction but only slightly. ATC refractometers adjust for density automatically so that the Salinity will be accurate for all reasonable reef temperatures.
The Specific Gravity of saltwater is an attribute of both temperature and Salinity. So, any Salinity scale on a measuring device can only be accurate at one specific temperature. Typically this is 77F. Therefore, the typical ATC refractometer will show the actual Salinity of the water but the Specific Gravity scale is not accurate at reef temperatures.
Personally, I don't believe S.G. should ever be discussed on a reef forum. It is not an important measurement. Salinity is very very important though.
For example, the oceans of the world vary in S.G. from 1.022 to 1.035. The most productive oceans in the world (not tropical) have a S.G. of 1.035 and a Salinity of 35ppt. The most diverse tropical reefs have a S.G. of 1.023. Know what the Salinity is? 35ppt....
My advice is to keep your Salinity at 35ppt or 36ppt and not waste time with Specific Gravity.
When someone asks me if their S.G. of 1.023 is too low, all I can say is "I Don't know". There is just no way of Knowing if it's low without the temperature and a look-up chart. If someone asks about Salinity I know right away, if it's not 35 - 37ppt then it's not right.

 

[rbaby]

Ok so I should get like 5 gallon buckets...put some of my RO tap water in there...put in the salt all in room temperature and just mix like crazy? What if the salt doesn't dissolve? I also forgot to mention that our RO Filter at home, my parents put salt in it...but very very trace amounts...should i take this into consideration?
Should I put an aquarium heater in there too to keep it at 72 F? A powerhead to keep the salt from settling at the bottom? Are cups-per-gallon a reliable way of measuring though? Do those salts let you know how many OUNCES would be best or do they just tell you so-and-so cup per so-and-so gallon?
Maybe instead of mixing so much I can put really powerful powerheads in there...do you recommend this? This'll make the mixing much easier for me and make sure that I don't leave a dead spot.
Also, is there a digital salinity tester other than the plastic floater thing? Mine is so unreliable it's not funny. I have to try up to 10 times before it does anything remotely close to measuring my salinity.
I'm a baker so I always don't go with cups whenever I measure...I always with the ounces. Thanks again guys, you guys are great.

 

[bang guy]

Your RO will remove any salt from your house water softener. Or, are you confusing a water softener with an RO unit? Water softeners do not produce pure water.
All of the salt will dissolve. If there's stuff left on the bottom it won't be salt but reference my "precipitate" comment from above.
Use the heater to warm the water to your tank temp a couple hours before adding it to the tank. 72F is too cold to add and too warm to mix IMO.
A powerhead will circulate the water just fine. It will make CO2 available while the water mixes and allow Ammonia to dissipate.
A TDS meter can be used to test salinity.

 

[a short]

If you dump all your salt in a small amount of water for easier mixing then add the rest of the water it makes the PH drop way low. Learned the hard way. Like Bang said, screws with the chemical comp.
I do 1 Gal. week water changes and just sit my jug in a sink of hot water with a thermometer in it and dump it in when its proper temp. Easier than an extra heater for me.

 

[leona]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
Has nothing to do with quality.
Refractometers measure refraction only, not any other qualities of the water.
The amount of salt in the water changes the refraction of the water in a predictable manner and therefore the Salinity can be directly measured.
The density of the water also affects refraction but only slightly. ATC refractometers adjust for density automatically so that the Salinity will be accurate for all reasonable reef temperatures.
The Specific Gravity of saltwater is an attribute of both temperature and Salinity. So, any Salinity scale on a measuring device can only be accurate at one specific temperature. Typically this is 77F. Therefore, the typical ATC refractometer will show the actual Salinity of the water but the Specific Gravity scale is not accurate at reef temperatures.
Personally, I don't believe S.G. should ever be discussed on a reef forum. It is not an important measurement. Salinity is very very important though.
For example, the oceans of the world vary in S.G. from 1.022 to 1.035. The most productive oceans in the world (not tropical) have a S.G. of 1.035 and a Salinity of 35ppt. The most diverse tropical reefs have a S.G. of 1.023. Know what the Salinity is? 35ppt....
My advice is to keep your Salinity at 35ppt or 36ppt and not waste time with Specific Gravity.
When someone asks me if their S.G. of 1.023 is too low, all I can say is "I Don't know". There is just no way of Knowing if it's low without the temperature and a look-up chart. If someone asks about Salinity I know right away, if it's not 35 - 37ppt then it's not right.
what about if your doing hyposalinity on ich invsted fish and the S.G needs to be wright on?

 

[bang guy]

Wrong. S.G. doesn't have to be right on.
Salinity has to be right on, it needs to be 14ppt. S.G. is irrelevant.

 

[leona]

i knew this hyposalinity thing confused me for a reason. Maybe I should just stick to copper treatment but then again that's not good for the fish either.
Leona

 

[bang guy]

Hypo is really good for permanently curing Ick.
Copper is much more stressful.

 

[big911dog]

Bang, thanks for all your info! I learn TONS just sitting back and reading ur advice. This is a GREAT thread on salinity vs. SG.

 

[rbaby]

Thanks a lot for your help guys.
Bang, I believe our water filter at home is an RO unit that's combined with a water softener.