More troops for Afghanistan?

zman1

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AWhttp:///forum/post/3142642As is Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, The U.S., afghanistan, Kuwait, Egypt, Somalia, Great Britain, India, and so on....I think Saudi Arabia sticks out due to its prominence in the history of the islamic religion....
al qaeda - wasn't in Iraq - they followed us there. They aren't in Iran either, remember Joe Liberman had to correct McCain when they were visiting Iraq together last year during a media interview. During campaign season....
911 - never forget
Saudi sticks out to me because:
1. Marwan al-Shehhi (from the United Arab Emirates),
2. Fayez Banihammad (from the United Arab Emirates),
3. Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
4. Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian),
5. Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
6. Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian),
7. Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian),
8. Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian),
9. Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian),
10.Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).
11. Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese),
12. Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian),
13. Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian),
14. Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
15. Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian),
16. Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
17. Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
18. Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian),
19.Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
I think there is a greater parallel with Japan than most liberals like to face. The belief that it is better to die for your god than to surrender and the belief that your own civilians can and should die for the cause. The Q'Ran states that Muhammed will return to to the rock in Mecca means that if it is destroyed then the Muslim faith loses all meaning. I'm not saying we should bomb it, but it would be the end of the dream of world conquest to usher the return of Muhammed. BTW, Israel has stated that if attacked with biological or nuclear weapons they have a couple nukes targeting Mecca and Answar Dam. Pacifism is the lack of enlightened self interest. Being afraid to do what it takes to live in peace and security isn't the absence of danger. Just the ostrich approach to defense.
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Thank you Mantisman. That was the point I was trying to make. Lets look at the situation in Afghanstan the General there is SCREAMING for 40 thousand more troops. Obama has had this request and is SITTING ON IT. Yet the Press is NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HIM. Bush would have been Cruxified by now by the MSM and the Printed Media yet Obama gets yet another pass. Sorry I have a very close friend getting ready for his 5 depolyment in 6 years to Afghanistan and he flat out told me either they get the troops or WE WILL LOOSE IN LESS THAN A 2 YEARS. You think the the attacks on 9/11 were bad if we loose in Afghanistan YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1http:///forum/post/3142662al qaeda - wasn't in Iraq - they followed us there. They aren't in Iran either, remember Joe Liberman had to correct McCain when they were visiting Iraq together last year during a media interview. During campaign season....911 - never forgetSaudi sticks out to me because:
1. Marwan al-Shehhi (from the United Arab Emirates),
2. Fayez Banihammad (from the United Arab Emirates),
3. Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
4. Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian),
5. Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
6. Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian),
7. Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian),
8. Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian),
9. Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian),
10.Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).
11. Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese),
12. Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian),
13. Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian),
14. Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
15. Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian),
16. Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
17. Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
18. Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian),
19.Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).

USS cole bombing 17 al qaeda members were arrested. The majority of which came from Yemen and Kuwait. of that group 2 were from suadi arabi...but had been born elsewhere.
The shoe bomber was British...and if you believe his info about American Airlines Flight 587, that shoe bomber was Canadian.
Of the 21 involved in the 1998 embassy bombings...Only 3 people (one of which is Bin Laden) were from Saudi Arabi. The majority of the rest were from egypt.
1993 WTC bombing...none of the participants were saudi arabian, with one of them being a U.S. citizen.
The foiled 2000 millennium bombing plot in the states contained no Saudi Arabian participants (this was a global plot which did succeed in indonesia)
Need I continue? Because I can....
In the grand history Of islamic Jihadist terrorists organizations, Saudi Arabians have a very small participation piece in the puzzle. The majority come from Egypt, Iran, and Afghanistan...With bits of UAE and Yemen mixed in....
 
zman1

zman1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3143025
Need I continue? Because I can....
3. Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
4. Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian),
5. Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
6. Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian),
7. Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian),
8. Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian),
9. Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian),
10.Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).
12. Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian),
13. Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian),
14. Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
15. Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian),
16. Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
17. Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
18. Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian),
19.Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).
I read them all, it's a long read through....
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...ovietafghanwar
NEVER FORGET
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3142863
I think there is a greater parallel with Japan than most liberals like to face. The belief that it is better to die for your god than to surrender and the belief that your own civilians can and should die for the cause. The Q'Ran states that Muhammed will return to to the rock in Mecca means that if it is destroyed then the Muslim faith loses all meaning. I'm not saying we should bomb it, but it would be the end of the dream of world conquest to usher the return of Muhammed. BTW, Israel has stated that if attacked with biological or nuclear weapons they have a couple nukes targeting Mecca and Answar Dam. Pacifism is the lack of enlightened self interest. Being afraid to do what it takes to live in peace and security isn't the absence of danger. Just the ostrich approach to defense.
The stone was stolen many centuries ago, this did not stop Islam. In fact they didn't recover the stone on their own. It was "mysteriously" returned to them. The stone has been broken in a number of seiges and wars as well. And later Pieced back together...No one knows what the stone is made of since it has never been allowed to be studied. so short of complete incineration....it wouldn't matter as the stone could be pieced back together once again as it has been in the past.
Short of a direct Nuclear drop ....regular bombings would not incinerate it I believe. and a nuclear drop on a religious site would give us a bunch of other world issues.....You think the economy is bad....just wait till we had sanctions levied on us and trade drastically reduced...especially our oil supply...
You guys need to think beyond the initial thought....
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by zman1
http:///forum/post/3143029
3. Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
4. Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian),
5. Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
6. Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian),
7. Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian),
8. Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian),
9. Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian),
10.Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).
12. Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian),
13. Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian),
14. Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
15. Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian),
16. Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
17. Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian),
18. Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian),
19.Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).
I read them all, it's a long read through....
http://www.historycommons.org/timeli...ovietafghanwar
NEVER FORGET
If you look at the Hijackers a bit more deeply, you will see many of them fought in the bonian and chechnya wars...were al qaeda did a lot of their recruiting. Others lived in the poor underdeveloped province that borders Yemen (Yemen seems to have more influence in this region even though it is technically saudi arabia).
of the saudi Hijacker only 3 do not fall into the above listed categories.....So the connection with terrorists and jihadists is not just Saudi Arabia......It is a lot deeper than that...so to place the blame at the feet of saudi arabia would not be giving the entire picture....
 
sloglo

sloglo

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3141741
Iraqm I truly careless about at this point...we did what I thought was needed to be done...removal of hussein and his regime....everything after that didn't matter to me really....However the compassionate side of me felt we should stay in Iraq and help rebuild since we were the cause of their destruction and many of those people just want to be left alone.
Afghanistan to me is a different theatre. I am still pissed at Bush for half assing that job. We went in afghanistan to get Justice. The Taliban were and are huge supportters of terroism and terrorists. Especially to those responsible for the deaths of over 3000 americans. I don't care if hold afghanistan and turn it into a democracy. However we do not leave until the taliban is nothing but a forgotten group of corpses. And we have Bin Laden served on a dish.
That war is about justice for the innocents.....ours and the average citizen of that country...a year and a half ago the country was relatively quiet....now it is scaling back up for several reasons. Nato and the U.N. have scaled back their troops. We are trying to fill the vaccuum, however nato/UN also had us go defensive......which is stupid considering we never had a solid hold on the situation. Once we went defensive that was the turrning point. We bacame to worried about collateral damage/innocent bystanders. No wonder we haven't truly won a significant war since WW2. In that war we ponded our enemy into submition and absolute defeat. If you weren't helping us you were against us......Now, we worry about citizens that aren't helping us......half the time they are supportting the enemy...yet we are to be concerned over their safety. Until we as a nation are willing to view a war in this fashion again, we will never win another one....neither will any western country for that matter.....I can't think of a NATO/UN joint effort that has succeeded under those conditions or even any of the so called "peace keeping" missions......
Give them the troops if they need them...but at the same point, take the gloves off and let us fight with both hands instead of with just one......if we don't do this, all the trops we stationed around the world won't matter. Afghanistan is not like Iraq where they have natural resources and infrastructure already to help show the locals a potential future.
So my point is this...did we really mean it when we (as a collective whole) felt we needed to get those responsible for and gave aid for 9/11 to bring justice o for the people that were cruelly slain on that fateful day as innocent civilians. To me justice has no price tag in this regard. Maybe I need to change my avatar to remind some people....
Editted to add this. Excuse the mispellings...Afghanistan and 9/11 are a touchy subject I get passionate about...and don't take the time to even semi proof read or spell check....but the post gets out my point.
awww boohoo, cry me an ocean, im all sensitive...wuss
 
sloglo

sloglo

Member
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/3141741
Iraqm I truly careless about at this point...we did what I thought was needed to be done...removal of hussein and his regime....everything after that didn't matter to me really....However the compassionate side of me felt we should stay in Iraq and help rebuild since we were the cause of their destruction and many of those people just want to be left alone.
Afghanistan to me is a different theatre. I am still pissed at Bush for half assing that job. We went in afghanistan to get Justice. The Taliban were and are huge supportters of terroism and terrorists. Especially to those responsible for the deaths of over 3000 americans. I don't care if hold afghanistan and turn it into a democracy. However we do not leave until the taliban is nothing but a forgotten group of corpses. And we have Bin Laden served on a dish.
That war is about justice for the innocents.....ours and the average citizen of that country...a year and a half ago the country was relatively quiet....now it is scaling back up for several reasons. Nato and the U.N. have scaled back their troops. We are trying to fill the vaccuum, however nato/UN also had us go defensive......which is stupid considering we never had a solid hold on the situation. Once we went defensive that was the turrning point. We bacame to worried about collateral damage/innocent bystanders. No wonder we haven't truly won a significant war since WW2. In that war we ponded our enemy into submition and absolute defeat. If you weren't helping us you were against us......Now, we worry about citizens that aren't helping us......half the time they are supportting the enemy...yet we are to be concerned over their safety. Until we as a nation are willing to view a war in this fashion again, we will never win another one....neither will any western country for that matter.....I can't think of a NATO/UN joint effort that has succeeded under those conditions or even any of the so called "peace keeping" missions......
Give them the troops if they need them...but at the same point, take the gloves off and let us fight with both hands instead of with just one......if we don't do this, all the trops we stationed around the world won't matter. Afghanistan is not like Iraq where they have natural resources and infrastructure already to help show the locals a potential future.
So my point is this...did we really mean it when we (as a collective whole) felt we needed to get those responsible for and gave aid for 9/11 to bring justice o for the people that were cruelly slain on that fateful day as innocent civilians. To me justice has no price tag in this regard. Maybe I need to change my avatar to remind some people....
Editted to add this. Excuse the mispellings...Afghanistan and 9/11 are a touchy subject I get passionate about...and don't take the time to even semi proof read or spell check....but the post gets out my point.
awww boohoo! Cry me an ocean
Iam sesnsitive...wuss, grow a pair
 
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