Morish Idol Rumors!

[shawnts106]

Ok, I have heard of these storys of where people have had Morish Idols for like a year and then suddenly next day without any sign of illness or fatigue or any stress signs at all just up and DIE... this doesnt make sense for a fish to just up and DIE.... I mean even with fish... you still see signs... like in tangs youll see Lateral line and Fin degeneration because of lack to seaweed for it to eat... why dont we see something simular with Morish Idols and their dietary lack...???...???
something just isnt adding up!... It should so signs of stress or something... if a fish is eatting fine one day and the next moring its dead .. something had to happen in the night... like.. it could have chocked on a peice of crushed coral.. or a fish attacked it in the middle of the night.. or it ate something poisonous durring the day.. like a fireworm or something!!!.. I DUNO!.. just just doesnt add up!
I think something else is to blame if a fish NO MATTER WHAT THE SPECIES just up and DIES the next day with NO warning of sickness or stress...
either water quality or a natural death or just chocking ... something other than a lame excuss of .. these fish just up and die... has got to be fault!....
does ANYONE agree with me here.... or am I just crazy... or ignorant??? please.. explain! :help:

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
Ok, I have heard of these storys of where people have had Morish Idols for like a year and then suddenly next day without any sign of illness or fatigue or any stress signs at all just up and DIE... this doesnt make sense for a fish to just up and DIE.... I mean even with fish... you still see signs... like in tangs youll see Lateral line and Fin degeneration because of lack to seaweed for it to eat... why dont we see something simular with Morish Idols and their dietary lack...???...???
something just isnt adding up!... It should so signs of stress or something... if a fish is eatting fine one day and the next moring its dead .. something had to happen in the night... like.. it could have chocked on a peice of crushed coral.. or a fish attacked it in the middle of the night.. or it ate something poisonous durring the day.. like a fireworm or something!!!.. I DUNO!.. just just doesnt add up!
I think something else is to blame if a fish NO MATTER WHAT THE SPECIES just up and DIES the next day with NO warning of sickness or stress...
either water quality or a natural death or just chocking ... something other than a lame excuss of .. these fish just up and die... has got to be fault!....
does ANYONE agree with me here.... or am I just crazy... or ignorant??? please.. explain! :help:
Thats the problem.
There is no explantion...unless someone were to do an autopsy.
But yes it has been confirmed...I also confered with many marine biologists and they have all witnessed this. They said they'll be swimming fine then go into like an epileptic seizure and sometime recup, but most times fatal...
They don't know what causes it.

 

[f1shman]

That is crazy. Maybe they play dead, not realizing that they will be taken out of the tank and thrown away lol.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by F1shMan
That is crazy. Maybe they play dead, not realizing that they will be taken out of the tank and thrown away lol.

Well if they can stop breathing for a long period of time, then that's a good trick.

 

[f1shman]

Indeed

 

[scubadoo]

This is the easily "spooked" reason for not attempting to keep ths animal. The end will come suddenly and swiftly, for reasons both known and unknown.
Better left in the ocean

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
This is the easily "spooked" reason for not attempting to keep ths animal. The end will come suddenly and swiftly, for reasons both known and unknown.
Better left in the ocean

Some will go on hunger strikes till they die..That's the known...Although it's still unkown why they do that...Some speculate that they are seperated from thier Life Mate they go into a depression...Idols Mate with another for life..
The unknown is why they seizure like that..

 

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by sw65galma
Some will go on hunger strikes till they die..That's the known...Although it's still unkown why they do that...Some speculate that they are seperated from thier Life Mate they go into a depression...Idols Mate with another for life..
The unknown is why they seizure like that..
Known reasons also simple fluctuations in water parameters. The point you bring out regarding mating is also the reason why small juveniles have a very slight incraese for surviving for a long period
Juveniles from Hawaiian waters also have a very slgiht increase in survivng long periods. The unknown reasons for hunger strikes make it truly an unkown as it cannot be attributed to disease, etc. It is an action of predictable unknown(s) with this animal.
Many unknown reasons for death. There is no answer for now.

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Known reasons also simple fluctuations in water parameters. The point you bring out regarding mating is also the reason why small juveniles have a very slight incraese for surviving for a long period
Juveniles from Hawaiian waters also have a very slgiht increase in survivng long periods. The unknown reasons for hunger strikes make it truly an unkown as it cannot be attributed to disease, etc. It is an action of predictable unknown(s) with this animal.
Many unknown reasons for death. There is no answer for now.

The only one i've seen kept in captivity longer than a year was a guy who lived in Hawaii on the beach and pumped water in from the ocean and back, into a huge tank...He had them for 5+yrs

 

[shawnts106]

I am honestly THRILLED TO DEATH on this topic... I have really got some GOOD comments made here and NO flaming or rude words at all... this is excelent... thanks to everyone for this!
also, there is some of the BEST information IVE READ YET in this small thread than what I have read in COUNTLESS books!
so lets start!
There is no explantion...unless someone were to do an autopsy.
exactly my thoughts.... but no one has done so!
But yes it has been confirmed...I also confered with many marine biologists and they have all witnessed this. They said they'll be swimming fine then go into like an epileptic seizure and sometime recup, but most times fatal...
Hum.. this is quite interesting.. My guess is lack of O2... they do come from turbid areas... so there is alot of dissolved O2 in the water... maybe captivity doesnt offer that load of O2 exchange they may need.... however then that doesnt explain the ones that live deep.. up to 600feet down.... but do they collect these or the ones from the reef???? more than likely its the ones higher up in the water column...
something to think about!
Well if they can stop breathing for a long period of time, then that's a good trick
yup... ... lol, the MORISH OPPOSUM! haha!!!
Better left in the ocean
agreed... but if they are going to continue to catch them.. might as well TRY to save them... or at least give them a longer life than a week in a collection tub... I mean lets all get realistic here... the suppliers are not EVER going to stop collecting them.... just not going to happen!..... because there will always be that hobbiest or that public aquarium that wants one!
Some will go on hunger strikes till they die..That's the known...Although it's still unkown why they do that...Some speculate that they are seperated from thier Life Mate they go into a depression...Idols Mate with another for life..
I think this is the most logical reason yet... and MOST INTERESTING... I mean, what other fish mate for life???? lol, GUPPIES! hahahahaha.... ok nevermind!
this is truely an interesting idea.... concidering the smaller ones tend to do better!!! and I would say that possibly close to 100% of the caught adults have a partner... and the younger idols like smalls 3 to 4 inches dont.... this does make perfect sence!!!
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Known reasons also simple fluctuations in water parameters. The point you bring out regarding mating is also the reason why small juveniles have a very slight incraese for surviving for a long period
IMO, I wouldnt bet any money down on the water flucs... I have seen and heard of people keeping them in nasty dirty 55 gallon tanks... so water quality is definatly on the low possibility scale....
The only one i've seen kept in captivity longer than a year was a guy who lived in Hawaii on the beach and pumped water in from the ocean and back, into a huge tank...He had them for 5+yrs
Probably because of the fresh unendless supply of microfauna and such... also, water quality would be excelent and very stable... so this is another peice of the puzzel!
I have chose to get one.. and have purposly made it a SMALL MEDIUM because of the lesser chance of it having a partner... plus today I picked up a BUTT LOAD of sponges... that grow on reefs... that is... the higher part of the reef.. some Blue sponge, Purple and white.... all these are good starters to try and help it along... plus my tank has a refugium so there is an unendless supply of scuds and mysis scrimp and such in the tank... plus my water quaility is superb... and I try and keep everything as stable as possible... and have now UPED my maintainence since the comming of my Idol this friday!.... so excited... and have went and bought clams, plankton, shrimps and such to help just that much more!

 

[sw65galma]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
plus today I picked up a BUTT LOAD of sponges... that grow on reefs... that is... the higher part of the reef.. some Blue sponge, Purple and white.... all these are good starters to try and help it along... plus my tank has a refugium so there is an unendless supply of scuds and mysis scrimp and such in the tank... plus my water quaility is superb... and I try and keep everything as stable as possible... and have now UPED my maintainence since the comming of my Idol this friday!.... so excited... and have went and bought clams, plankton, shrimps and such to help just that much more!

Although sounding like good intentions....besides the sponges...The other stuff is like getting a vegitarian steak, chicken and pork...He probabably won't touch the clams or shrimp...and how is he gonna to eat plankton?
I don't think the o2 level has anything to do with it

 

[f1shman]

sw65, thats crazy. Poor idol misses there spouse

awww lol. Wonder what would happen if you had them with their mate? 100+ years? lol. Also how long do moorish idols live in the ocean?

 

[ophiura]

If they could be sustained on the obvious foods, then it would be easy to keep them. I know the one I worked with ate frickin' EVERYTHING. Total pig and was given everything and anything. Big belly. Beat the snot out of other fish. Survived tank crashes that killed triggers! And just up and died, quite suddenly, 'bout a year later. Didn't stop eating, didn't show obvious signs of anything. Just dead. You may not believe it, but I saw it.

 

[shawnts106]

And just up and died, quite suddenly, 'bout a year later. Didn't stop eating, didn't show obvious signs of anything. Just dead. You may not believe it, but I saw it.
See... this is exactly what Im talking about.. there has to be another reason... this just doesnt make sence... fish just dont up and die.. I DONT CARE HOW rare/hard to keep it is.. they ussually show signs of weekness.... that or it was a sudden death, like a poisoning or chokeing on a peice of rock or CC... Ive seen fish do this...
He probabably won't touch the clams or shrimp...and how is he gonna to eat plankton?
I have heard of people putting this AquaYums in a clamshell.. and they have picked and ate them... just another food for it to try, if it doesnt the Angels and tang and damsels will!!!
Plankton.. the food, you know... its not like Phyto or something like Cyclop.. its like... tiny red shrimps.. made by Hikarii.. I THINK.... I forget.. just the name is plankton... so this is just another food... I got mysis shrimps, brine and such... also got some squid, Marine Cusine, Emerald Entree, and such.... excuse the spelling.... anyway!
these are just items for him to try.. if he wont eat it the other fish will... plus I have TONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS OF SCUDS and FIREWORMS and MYSIS SHRIMP in my tank swimming around everywhere.. even in daylight... these guys are in NO SHORT SUPPLY.. and its possible he may eat these....
just trying foods... should be in my Friday.. soooo, Ill take some pics and such for everyone to see him... while hes still here!
If he wont touch that.. what DOOOO you recommend???? what did you do to get yours to eat??? OH I also got some NORI.. of course.. dont know if they eat macroalgaes or not.. but trying never hurt!

 

[ricks280]

wel guys, just my little input re morish iive spent a bit of time with a lfs and i mentioned the issues re the above, he suggested not to keep this fish unless they are kept in groups of 3 plus (security is a big thing with these fish)the bigger the numbers ,the greater their survival. no concrete warranty but it does make sense :thinking:

rick.

 

[shawnts106]

Thanks for that Rick.. sounds logical.. very interesting.. although.. I do not want to get in over my head... my tank really doesnt even suppose to house ONE... so we will just try one for now... Im getting a MED... or supposed to be a MEDIUM.... wanted a sm/med... but Im getting a medium.. so maybe he or she will be a bit brave haha!

 

[jlem]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
.. I do not want to get in over my head... my tank really doesnt even suppose to house ONE... so we will just try one for now... Im getting a MED... or supposed to be a MEDIUM.... wanted a sm/med... but Im getting a medium.. so maybe he or she will be a bit brave haha!
After all the stories of Moorish Idols dropping dead and nobody but the lucky few (very few ) keeping them alive I can see why you think keeping a fish that you are not even sure how to properly keep it is funny. I mean keeping a fish that probably will die in a short time is very funny

. I read through the whole thread and had to re read when I read that you still plan on getting one

 

[f1shman]

Originally Posted by shawnts106
See... this is exactly what Im talking about.. there has to be another reason... this just doesnt make sence... fish just dont up and die.. I DONT CARE HOW rare/hard to keep it is.. they ussually show signs of weekness.... that or it was a sudden death, like a poisoning or chokeing on a peice of rock or CC... Ive seen fish do this...
Well thats kind of embarssing, you just completely said something adn then completly disregarded it a second later. "fish just don't up and die" then you said "they usually show signs of weakness" USUALLY = not ALWAYS. There is a missing link with this fish and no offense, but don't pretend to be an expert on all types of fish and tell us that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a fish to just "up and die". It has happend to many so its not impossible and I doubt everyone moorish idol decides to commit suicide at one year in a tank... So just be open-minded and learn. And I've read the other huge post and you said your tank isn't even suited for one, so why are you getting one?

 

[shawnts106]

stories of Moorish Idols dropping dead and nobody but the lucky few (very few ) keeping them alive I can see why you think keeping a fish that you are not even sure how to properly keep it is funny.
I dont think its funny.. the HAHA at the end was more referring to the fish acctually being "brave"... as in giveing human characteristics to an animal... not really "funny" nor ammuzing.. just a filler word...
There is a missing link with this fish and no offense, but don't pretend to be an expert on all types of fish and tell us that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a fish to just "up and die".
Sorry you think that.. oh and dont worry I wont pretend to be an expert... I AM ONE! .. lol, ok just a bit of joking.. nevermind!... No am no expert... nor do I pretend to be one... I dont know where on earth you got that from!...
It has happend to many so its not impossible and I doubt everyone moorish idol decides to commit suicide at one year in a tank... So just be open-minded and learn. And I've read the other huge post and you said your tank isn't even suited for one, so why are you getting one?

No I dont think that these fish commit sucide either... I am openminded.. dont know where your getting that im not either.... also, yes thank you for reading that post.. and no my tank "by your standards and everyone elses on this thread" isnt suited for one... the ONLY TANK IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE that is suited for this fish is the OCEAN.... ... My little drop of water is not... or is a 300gallon "drop of water" either.. because they die just as quick in that size tank as if you could get one to live in a 75 gallon.... or a 55 gallon..... they "all" as you say seem to die in a year anyway... they are a "rent a fish" ... so im going to try and rent to own... if you get my point???
the Goniopora Corals are "rent a coral".. Im RENTING TO OWN!... get my point #2???

 

[f1shman]

bravery is not only a human charcteristic