Multitier Tank Stand Questions

florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Wow Randy so far looks really good, set up looks more for a research project than propagation for resale. When will you start with the hard installation? I cannot give you any reliable input on the structural integrity of the stand yet. But I have called in some markers with some cabinet makers I know.
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
Here's the diagram, I didn't get it either after I wrote it I haven't had much sleep lately either hopefully this will make more sense.
Edit: Just noticed I didn't get my 2x4's drawn very equally on both sides of the tank but all pieces are 2x4s
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2912843
Wow Randy so far looks really good, set up looks more for a research project than propagation for resale. When will you start with the hard installation? I cannot give you any reliable input on the structural integrity of the stand yet. But I have called in some markers with some cabinet makers I know.
Oh Joe, if only
Dead
thats what I would be right now if I started one more project. I'm afraid that at minimum hard instilation will have to wait till June (by then I'll be done with Firefighter I and EMT); The room where it may be going is in the basement, and it was originally designed as a fish room when its completed. I installed multiple sockets at each point at which a tank would be placed and ran PVC piping through the wall for a air supply. I figured on bottom counters/cabinates as the pedastols for all the tanks rather than individual stands. At the time it was designed I was heavily into Cichlids and only minimally interested in saltwater. The room was set up for a large tank 110+ (six foot base) with a below tank sump, two 30 gallon longs, a 55 gallon and assorted other small tanks. Hence why I happen to have a slightly large collection of tanks. Since then of course, my interests have changed. I'm afraid that the next few months are going to have to be focused on coming up with a hard plan and slowly purchasing the supplies for the system. Who knows though, maybe by the time I actually am ready to do the build, I'll have spent all the money I need to - it would be the first system I ever set up that didn't cost me a whole lot of money once I'd started
.
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2913051
Here's the diagram, I didn't get it either after I wrote it I haven't had much sleep lately either hopefully this will make more sense.
Edit: Just noticed I didn't get my 2x4's drawn very equally on both sides of the tank but all pieces are 2x4s
Gotcha John, I was focused on keeping the stand supports on size with the tanks, hadn't considered an overlarge stand - tunnel vision you know - you get an idea in your head and thats all you can see. That one of the things I really enjoy about the boards; lots of nice people willing to help you out and give lots of good suggestions.
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2913407
Gotcha John, I was focused on keeping the stand supports on size with the tanks, hadn't considered an overlarge stand - tunnel vision you know - you get an idea in your head and thats all you can see. That one of the things I really enjoy about the boards; lots of nice people willing to help you out and give lots of good suggestions.
Thought it made sense to do it that way especially since it looks like you are planning a cabinet on the side of stand to house the RSB containers and dosing system. You could actually take the stand above the top tank to incorporate the canopy into the stand also.
 
veni vidi vici

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2913416
Hey SB33, Quint and I were actually discussing the merits of liquid nails.
Here is my .2¢ on Adhesives.They are only going to be as strong as the surface they are applied to,and wood isint an ideal surface to bond to.IMO it dosen add much to the strength of the frame .I wouldnt rely on a adhesive to do the job of a nail or s crew.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Randy why not have your horizontal shelves sit on your vertical legs instead of tying them in then all your load is now on your legs and not in sheer
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
http:///forum/post/2913831
Here is my .2¢ on Adhesives.They are only going to be as strong as the surface they are applied to,and wood isint an ideal surface to bond to.IMO it dosen add much to the strength of the frame .I wouldnt rely on a adhesive to do the job of a nail or s crew.
Yeah I hear you on this one - I once listened to a building center employee who told me I could put up wainscoat using nothing but liquid nails - what a disaster! Had to pick some up off the floor, pull some back off the wall, sand it all off and start over
. After that I learned, liquid nails may help, but it doesn't do the job all by itself.
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2913873
Randy why not have your horizontal shelves sit on your vertical legs instead of tying them in then all your load is now on your legs and not in sheer
Hey Joe, I think that's what John was trying to get across - each horizontal shelf is supported by legs (I would call them cripple studs), and then screwed to the outter 2x4s. As you said, it should place the bearing weight on the shorter 2x4 pieces rather than on the s c r e w s - I was suffering from tunnel vision concentrating on creating a stand with support frames the exact size of the tanks
. With this design, I could actually use 3x4" sheeting on the outside rather than 2x4s to create more of a cabinet beside a cabinet look.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2913915
Hey Joe, I think that's what John was trying to get across - each horizontal shelf is supported by legs (I would call them cripple studs), and then screwed to the outter 2x4s. As you said, it should place the bearing weight on the shorter 2x4 pieces rather than on the s c r e w s - I was suffering from tunnel vision concentrating on creating a stand with support frames the exact size of the tanks
. With this design, I could actually use 3x4" sheeting on the outside rather than 2x4s to create more of a cabinet beside a cabinet look.
Exactly as long as your load is bearing on the legs( your 3/4 ply) and not dependent on the sheer strength of your fasteners you are good to go
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Alrighty then - basics on the stand are figured out, now on to the more serious questions. Any thoughts on flow rates and pump size? Each tank is a 29 gallon, and with another 25 gallon (as each would be plumbed into a seperate container), seems like we're talking about two 55g tanks, with sump, fuge, and rock chamber maybe another 30 to 40 gallons; so total system is around 160g. Sound about right? I'm running a quiteone 4000 on my 65g system now, it would be nice to stick with the same return pump, that way I can keep one extra on hand in case any of them go down. Thoughts on that size return pump? How about the t5 light? I looked into NOVA Extreme - but the 48" 4 bulb is no longer available. They make a SLR t5 with the same wattage, anybody have any experience with this one? 216w of light too much for a 12 1/2" deep tank; under the old division rule (which I know most of you don't use any more that comes out to about 7.5 watts per gallon. Thoughts or input
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
Randy I think a quietone 4000 would be fine on this system, I am guessing that the top of the highest tank will be aprx 5' so with that much head you are looking at about 600gph.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
WOW Randy this pump selection is going to be a project in and of its self. But my friend and coconspirator in the JoeRanugeum. Let the games begin.
Most people only select their pumps on gallons per hour. But flow rates give very little information as to whether or not they are suitable for your application. The flow rate given for pumps is the max rate by can produce when pumping water up a minimum distance. Usually one foot. The distance a pump is required to send water is, as we know head pressure. The flow rate that you want in your system has to take into consideration your plumbing. After flow rate we can determine head pressure once these two factors have been determined then you can select a pump that will best meet your demands.
So to tackle dynamic head pressure you need to consider vertical distance AND the pressure that results from resistance of piping/hoses, fittings and valves to water flow.
TDH=vertical (static) head +friction loss head due to pipe + fittings + filters + valves + other restrictions to flow.
Vertical discharge head measurement
You will have to start by measuring the distance from the top of the water level of the sump to the top of your tank. The reason for measuring the top of the water level in the sump is the water creates pressure on the intake of the pump thus helping it to move water upward. Once you have that distance. You need to decide what flow rate you will want through the system in order to calculate how much head pressure the plumbing, valves and fittings add
I hope you head is swimming (no pun intended) mine is. But if you get that vertical measurement and decide what flow rate you want. We can go forward.
Might be a good time to call upon the plumbing experts on the boards to join the fun
 
scopus tang

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2915237
WOW Randy this pump selection is going to be a project in and of its self. But my friend and coconspirator in the JoeRanugeum. Let the games begin.
Most people only select their pumps on gallons per hour. But flow rates give very little information as to whether or not they are suitable for your application. The flow rate given for pumps is the max rate by can produce when pumping water up a minimum distance. Usually one foot. The distance a pump is required to send water is, as we know head pressure. The flow rate that you want in your system has to take into consideration your plumbing. After flow rate we can determine head pressure once these two factors have been determined then you can select a pump that will best meet your demands.
So to tackle dynamic head pressure you need to consider vertical distance AND the pressure that results from resistance of piping/hoses, fittings and valves to water flow.
TDH=vertical (static) head +friction loss head due to pipe + fittings + filters + valves + other restrictions to flow.
Vertical discharge head measurement
You will have to start by measuring the distance from the top of the water level of the sump to the top of your tank. The reason for measuring the top of the water level in the sump is the water creates pressure on the intake of the pump they by helping it to move water upward. Once you have that distance. You need to decide what flow rate you will want through the system in order to calculate how much head pressure the plumbing, valves and fittings add
I hope you head is swimming (no pun intended) mine is. But if you get that vertical measurement and decide what flow rate you want. We can go forward.
Might be a good time to call upon the pluming experts on the boards to join the fun
Wow! Ok then, I'll have to take some measurements and do some figuring over the weekend - any suggestions on plumbing experts? I've got several DIYers here in Sheridan that will be more than happy to help with this little Gem I'm sure, once I get all the kinks figured out.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Google this.......
head loss calculator
Go to the first result.
Down on the right side are a few more useful calculators too.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Randy my very good friend, I must make you aware. You have wakened the sleeping half a brain monster. I don’t know if you were able to get any info from Henrys suggestion (God I hope you did) but I am in the process of gathering data on friction head in feet per foot of different schedule PVC pipe (40, 80) at various flow rates in gallons per hour. If you can tell me which schedule pipe you are using it will cut the work load ½..
Also if you have a vague idea on what you will need ball valves, gate valves, 90d elbows, 45d elbows, sweeps, street ells and tees. I get work up some numbers as well.
Duhh talk about tunnel vision I COULD USE THE ID of the pipe
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2915477
Randy my very good friend, I must make you aware. You have wakened the sleeping half a brain monster. I don’t know if you were able to get any info from Henrys suggestion (God I hope you did) but I am in the posses of gathering data on friction head in feet per foot of different schedule PVC pipe (40, 80) at various flow rates in gallons per hour. If you can tell me which schedule pipe you are using it will cut the work load ½..
Also if you have a vague idea on what you will need ball valves gate valves, 90d elbows, 45d elbows, sweeps street ells and tees. I get work up some numbers as well.
Duhh talk about tunnel vision I COULD USE THE ID of the pipe
HA! Makes you wonder what the heck Joe does to keep food on the table doesn't it Randy? He seems to have a large amount of time on his hands. He must have "PEOPLE"!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top