Must be election time 'cause we need to drug test welfare people!

It’s election time again, which means we get to hear the wonderful idea of “make all people on welfare take drugs tests, and if they fail they don’t get benefits!”. On a very, very, very basic level, this sounds wonderful. But on a very, very, very basic level; so does communism. Let’s take a look at what it would actually accomplish. How would we do that you ask? We do that by looking at someone who has already tried it: Florida.
From the Miami Herald: “The findings — that only 108 of the 4,086 people who took a drug test failed. The numbers, confirming previous estimates, show that taxpayers spent $118,140 to reimburse people for drug test costs, at an average of $35 per screening. The state’s net loss? $45,780. “That’s not counting attorneys and court fees and the thousands of hours of staff time it took to implement this policy,” Newton said. The law also didn’t impact the number of people who applied for benefits.”
And there you have it. A little over 2% of people failed the drug test and had their benefits taken away, while over 97% of the applicants did not, costing the state and its taxpayers $35 per drug test; or $118,140.
Secondly, let’s look at the actual 2% who did fail the test. The thought process is that if you take away the only money these people have, then they will no longer have the money to use drugs. Really? This clearly sounds concocted by some old white guy in congress who has no idea how drugs work in the real world. You know what happens when people don’t have money for drugs? Oh what’s that? You thought they just stopped taking drugs and went and got a job at Popeyes Chicken? Not quite.
When people are addicts, and they no longer have money, that’s when the crimes start. First it’s usually just petty theft of actual cash. If that’s not working, then just sell everything you already own, or anything you can lift from friends and family. Then the next step is stealing TV’s, computers, car stereos and the like of strangers to resell for money to buy drugs. Maybe they are just better with a .45 caliber so they go out and stick up someone who they know has drugs, or better yet; they try and hold up an actual drug dealer. Then the murders start, and the pay pack for murders… Yeah, it’s a really pretty picture that’s being painted here.
Also, let’s not forget about the fact that though some of these people do use welfare funds for drugs, most of these people also have children at home. Even if 80% of that money is going to drugs, the 20% that doesn’t, pays for rent, food, shelter, etc for their kids. I know most people don’t care about five black kids in the hood who’s mom is a crackhead. The problem is, if you kick them into the streets, guess what they start doing? You guessed it. Street drugs. So as you can see, it’s a viscous cycle.
I’m not saying that I like the idea of people using my tax dollars for their drug habit, because I don’t; at all. However, you have to be a little smarter than just looking on the surface, because as you have just read, it’s a lot deeper than that.
I’m 31 years old, and I can tell you two things with almost complete certainty. Marijuana, compared to other “drugs” and alcohol is much less dangerous, and two; the United States multi-billlion dollar “war on drugs” isn’t working. So we ought to start by decriminalizing pot, and then completely restructure our plan of attack on drugs that really do kill (the cocaine, heroin, crack of the world). How we go about that, I have no idea. What I do know however, is that the current system isn’t working…
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I think that you are overgeneralizing and stereotyping. By your logic, someone that pays for marijuana out of their welfare check gets cut off they are going to go kill a drug dealer for money to buy the drugs from... another drug dealer? I don't know if you know it or not, but most people who smoke marijuana are the most laid back people on the planet. Most people who smoke marijuana don't typically get onto more "hard drugs" that could cause someone to loose their mind and go kill somebody. Even those people who are on hard drugs usually can't disguise it and typically have a support system in place to help them overcome an addiction. Now, the people who you are talking about who are hard drug addicts with five kids - typically have their children taken away by CPS and placed in foster care - which is government funded. That's more like the minority of hard drug users that you are talking about.
You don't think for one second that the government doesn't make money off of the drug trade? Remember our troops protecting poppy fields in Afghanistan? Drugs are big business... just like guns.
 

reefraff

Active Member
We need to end cash payments of any kind. That ends the concern over what they spend the money on. If they want to trade the food they are provided for drugs or smokes what are you going to do? At least it would make it harder.
I am not particularly found of stoners and by stoner I mean people who spend most of their day loaded. Used to work a profession where 20 something guys dominated the field and a lot of them toked it up. I got sick and tired of picking up their slack. Even so I would be all in favor of legalizing MJ. It's no worse than booze and and the economic benefits make a lot of sense.
 

toussaud

New Member
I have been a long time reader/lurker of this site for over a year really, and this thread made me sign up with the site (great sign up feature BTW, not long and drawn out)
anyway, this is a hot button topic for me as I am a recovered drug addict. Drug addict would be a miscatogorization, not all drugs, just crack cocaine. I don't have an issue with any other drugs. Just to get this out the way now I have been clean for over a half a decade and this is a previous life, but at a point i had a thousand dollar a week habit easily.
Now I say all that to say, I have seen this battle with my own eyes, I have seen how it goes down in the streets and I could not possibly be a stronger proponet of this idea to make people on welfware get drug tested.
At it's basic premise, i feel that when you request the money from the taxpayers, you give up the right to mandate what you want to do with the money; the money should come with stipulations. Not even tough ones. I don't feel it's unjustifed to ask a welfare check person to not spend the money on drugs.
But that's not the real why I am for it. I have seen, a woman with 2 kids in the house get a 600 dollar ebt payment, sale it for half price to get 200-250 dollars worth of dope and come home with 30-40 dollars worth of food for 3 people for a freaking month. it's heartbreaking to watch. over and over again. and after a few days they have to hustle and scheme just to eat. And we aren't talking about good food just whatever you can get.
My policy would be this.
One failed drug test, mandatory AA meetings 2 times a week for 6 months
Second failed drug test, manatory impatient treatment which is 30-45 days, mandaotry outpatient treatment for up to 6 months, manatory AA meetings for one year 2 times a week
third failed drug test =bye
After the third failed drug test, they would not actually be kicked out of the program, they just wouldnt' get any money. if they can pass a weekly random drug screen for 1 year they are qualifed to get the money again if need be.
Also, something else, people relaly only get clean when they go to jail beucdsase that's the only time you are forced to do soemthing. for me it was getting pulled over with a baggie in the car, i had to go to drug court and that changed my life, been clean sense. if not for that i don't know where i would be. A lot of these people, unless they commit a crime will just fall threw the cracks. this is another way to catch people.
this 10000% needs to happen
 

toussaud

New Member
Quote:
We need to end cash payments of any kind. That ends the concern over what they spend the money on. If they want to trade the food they are provided for drugs or smokes what are you going to do? At least it would make it harder.
actually it wouldn't. they really don't do cash payments now, they give you a card and just load money onto it at midnight on the first of the month. it's not actual cash or an actual check at least where i am from it's not.
the way it works is that the going rate on the street is 2 for 1. so if i have a food stamp card with 200 dollars on it, either i can call a dealer and let them buy 200 dollars worth of food with it for 100 dollars worth of drugs, or you have friends who aren't using who just want to get some cheap food. even a few years after i was clean i would still get calls to see if i wanted some 2 for 1 deals, you pick them up, take them to the store, you get what you want, they pay for it,k you give them half.
a person with a card can usually get money in a matter of hours
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure what to think of the mandatory drug testing thing. They instituted this in FLA a couple of years ago and the % of welfare recipients testing positive was pretty minimal. Now, my feeling is that drug testing is as much a deterrent to applying for welfare to begin with then anything else. Those on drugs mostly are not going submit to a test because it will be positive, so they choose not to be on welfare.
Unfortunately, those on welfare are mostly single women with children so, the children really feel the pinch. However, I do believe that the social generosity from which public welfare sprang, in many cases, does more harm then good for those who make a life of being on welfare.
 
First of all, that's awesome you have been clean and sober for that long. It proves there are people out there who can do it, and you are one of them!
That being said, your three point plan would be very effective for sure. However, the costs would make it impossible to implement. Sending someone to 30-45 days of treatment followed by six months of outpatient treatment would cost tens of, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient. Now if you ask me, there are ways to pay for it by cutting tax breaks and pork, but that's a pipe dream in the current American bueracracy.
I think Reef nailed it on the head. You want to allocate funds? Perfect. Put stipulations on it, period. You get a housing allowance. You get a FOOD allowance, which actually means food (not alcohol and cigarettes). You can't simply hand someone $600 a month and expect them to use it on "good things", that's a joke.
 
If that 2 for 1 thing is real, and I have no doubt it is... start sending in feds to pose as "buyers" who want to trade 2 for 1's. When and if you get caught, say bye bye to your benefits. Once that happens, and people know it's happening, I bet it would certainly slow things down...
 

toussaud

New Member
Quote:
First of all, that's awesome you have been clean and sober for that long. It proves there are people out there who can do it, and you are one of them!
That being said, your three point plan would be very effective for sure. However, the costs would make it impossible to implement. Sending someone to 30-45 days of treatment followed by six months of outpatient treatment would cost tens of, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient. Now if you ask me, there are ways to pay for it by cutting tax breaks and pork, but that's a pipe dream in the current American bueracracy.
I think Reef nailed it on the head. You want to allocate funds? Perfect. Put stipulations on it, period. You get a housing allowance. You get a FOOD allowance, which actually means food (not alcohol and cigarettes). You can't simply hand someone $600 a month and expect them to use it on "good things", that's a joke.
a normal residential treatment facility.. I’m not talk stuffing about the stuff you see on TV.. is going to run you between 5 and 10 thousand dollars per stay. lol i went 3 times i should know. that's pretty bottom of the barrel but they work.
and on top of that, the ones like that, have special rates in place with the state and federal government to send all their people there.. the state might send 15-20 people there a month between men and women and the feds will send 2-4 a month.. They might pay 60-70% of the total bill but it's still a license to print money for the important treatment facility
I’m not your prototypical drug addict, I’m a pretty successful entrepreneur and even now outside of AA/NA only a hand full of people know I had a problem, I was an extremely high functioning addict. I actually had to pay my bills myself which is how I know how much they are.
While I’m on the subject, they are nothing like you see on TV. first you got to share a room with like, usually 4-5 other people it's like an open room with 4-5 beds in it. that's not that bad you get used to it. but i mean, 5000 thousand for what?
a normal... Tuesday in a residential treatment facility goes as follows.
6:am wake up
6:45: breakfast
8:00 prayer /meditation
8:30 first group
10:30 second group
noon: lunch
12:30 third group
2:30 forth group
5pm dinner
7pm someone from AA comes in and you have a in house meeting. Every once in a while you all get in a van and go to an outside meeting
10:30 lights out
and mind you these groups are all tought by the same guy it's not like you have this huge staff. the food they serve is very fatty and cheap, i put on 15 pounds when i went at least every time. i hated that. more than anything it just gets your system clean and you can get out and do what you need to do.
anyway, my point simply being "hundreds of thousands of dollars" is lala land money
however on the other hand,
1. lol you ever considered the fact that they need welfare int he first place is beucse they are on drugs lol? you clean them up then it's a positive ROI
2. prisons cost approx. 21,000 a year to house an inmate and 70% of all county prisoners are there on drug raps
so really.. Which is more expensive
The drug rehab racket is the biggest wool over the public’s eyes in the country. you guys have no clue. lol
 

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Why not drug test everyone that gets booked into jail, if that person has benefits and tests positive, then why cant you take benefits away? Why not take benefits away from offenders first?
 

reefraff

Active Member
Druggies, Hang em all!!! As I sit here looking at the tiny bag of "medicinal herb" a friend got from a medical supplier he knows for me. I tried the stuff back when I was a kid and didn't like the feeling. But I want to see if it does anything for the nerve pain. If a hit or two does the trick without getting high I'll have to go get the card but I don't want to go through all that just to find out I have to get loaded for it to work. I'd rather just continue to live with the pain. If I have to get goofy for it to do anything I'll go back to scotch rocks LOL!
For the record I am going into this thinking it isn't going to work.
 

mantisman51

Active Member
And the answer to my question is: because anyone removed from welfare is more than likely a lost democrat vote. Ah, the politics of dependence.
 
If assault rifles aren't a problem, why not just ban them? That way we're only removing the few "bad eggs" who use them for killing.
 
And the answer to my question is: because anyone removed from carrying an assault rifle is more than likely a lost republican vote. Ah, the politics of dependence.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393422/must-be-election-time-cause-we-need-to-drug-test-welfare-people#post_3499972
Druggies, Hang em all!!! As I sit here looking at the tiny bag of "medicinal herb" a friend got from a medical supplier he knows for me. I tried the stuff back when I was a kid and didn't like the feeling. But I want to see if it does anything for the nerve pain. If a hit or two does the trick without getting high I'll have to go get the card but I don't want to go through all that just to find out I have to get loaded for it to work. I'd rather just continue to live with the pain. If I have to get goofy for it to do anything I'll go back to scotch rocks LOL!
For the record I am going into this thinking it isn't going to work.
I have a friend whose using medical marijuana for his neuropathy and pain issues. He occassionally smokes it, but primarily purchases the food products. He tells me he gets no "buzz" because his brain is tuned into it masking out his pain. It does however allow him to sleep better. He's also more complacent right after "smokin' a doobie", but he doesn't act like he's loaded or totally wasted at any time. Of course the effects are different for each person. If it doesn't work out for you, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393422/must-be-election-time-cause-we-need-to-drug-test-welfare-people#post_3499987
I have a friend whose using medical marijuana for his neuropathy and pain issues. He occassionally smokes it, but primarily purchases the food products. He tells me he gets no "buzz" because his brain is tuned into it masking out his pain. It does however allow him to sleep better. He's also more complacent right after "smokin' a doobie", but he doesn't act like he's loaded or totally wasted at any time. Of course the effects are different for each person. If it doesn't work out for you, I'll be happy to take it off your hands.

LOL! It's just a pinch. My friend explained to the guy "He tried it a few times years ago and didn't like the high so don't give me any real high octane stuff, I don't want the guy to freak"
I am discovering I am tending to eat to take my mind off the pain. Getting the munchies aint gonna helpLOL!
My brother has used for 40 years. He got gutted in a knife fight years ago and has used MJ since that time for pain. Just a hit worked for him although he still gets loaded too LOL! We'll see what happens. I'll have to go on a gun buying spree if I go for it cause I aint going to lie on the yellow form. Got to stock up first :)
 

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393422/must-be-election-time-cause-we-need-to-drug-test-welfare-people#post_3499980
And the answer to my question is: because anyone removed from carrying an assault rifle is more than likely a lost republican vote. Ah, the politics of dependence.
See, this is the divide between left and right. Firearms are protected by the Constitution-pesky ol' rag that it is. Illegally voting IS NOT! But, you still want to protect it just the same, though. Right?
 
Top