Must read this thread if you care about fish

[m0nk]

Everyone definitely has a different opinion of what their fish mean to them... and there isn't always a lot that people can do to change someone's mind if they don't seem to care too much about the choices they make. People do seem to be more conscientious the longer they're in the hobby, and care more about their fish as well as the wellbeing of other people's fish and the fish in the wild.
That being said, NO TANGS IN 55G TANKS!

 

[dse]

Originally Posted by m0nk
http:///forum/post/2838285
We can only aspire to the as conscientious as possible in this hobby. In fact, the hobby overall has done a great job promoting awareness of the plight of the oceans.

Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2838299
I think about that too sometime. Is it wrong for us to keep these fish in such small boxes? Yeah, a BIG box is better than a small one but it's still a box. Going from the ocean to an aquarium has to suck. If I was a fish, I wouldn't want to be stuck in a glass box, no matter how good an environment is created.

Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/2838354
i ask my dogs to pay the electric bill all the time.i just get a stupid look.
free house and food what else could they ask for?
maybe if we didnt take them out of the sea it would be overpopulated
my fish look happy.

Originally Posted by big
http:///forum/post/2838636
It is a good moral question to ask.........
But I think my few fish and my two dogs too are all happier here than living in the wild......... if they feel happness......

At least I am pretty sure my LMB is happy..... He likes to be hand fed..........
actually the hobby has kept a large ammount of species alive. and has declined the population of some species but whilst there is fish trawlers we are doing good by keeping as they killing off every type of fish/turtel/coral etc etc etc etc and most of all we have to make fake reefs because of the trawlers dameges. so insted fight against the trawlers and lets make them use a blummin fishing rod!!!!

 

[mboswell1982]

and, we need to fully support people like the crew of the sea shepherd from the show whale wars!!!!!!! if you havent watched that show, id suggest you watch it

 

[salt nate]

Bottom line of me posting this thread
1) You people who hate others that put "too big of fish" in too small of tanks know this: there are many people out there who HATE YOUR GUTS for even putting fish in tanks at all and they think that you are immoral and ignorant. So dont be like them and think of yourself as better, or more responsible, than someone else who puts a tang in a 75 gallon tank. We all have beliefs and convictions(at least most of us do, I hope) and there are 2 sides to every argument.
2) If you care about the size of fish vs. the size of your tank, somewhere deep down-- you too, wonder if this is "right".
I think that our hobby is beautiful and I will always be into it, but there is a part of me that will always wonder: Do my fish hate their life because of me?

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by salt nate
http:///forum/post/2839389
Do my fish hate their life because of me?

Yes they do. Let me tell you something that no one wants to accept. The act of keeping fish in aquariums is inherently cruel, regardless of the size of the tank or the quality of the equipment. We are not environmentalists, we are selfish human beings exploiting nature for our own amusement.
What do you think the average life span is of a fish in the ocean? I'm going to suggest, even with predators lurking, that the average is at least 10-15 years.
What do you think the average life span is of fish in aquariums? I think I'm being extremely generouse by suggesting that it may be 4-6 months. And this is not even accounting for all the fish that die in transit, at the LFS, or from some other indirect consequence of this hobby.
We are not doing any service for our fish. We should, however, do the best that we can since we already subject them to such inhumane conditions.

 

[salt nate]

wow crimzy! let it all out

I been a vegetarian most of my life and consider myself a lover of nature and animals. I didnt even think of this side of sw fish keeping until I already had my 3 tanks.
The way that I make myself feel better is by knowing how much I am teaching my 2 young sons about science, the ocean, and how I am growing their love of the ocean and the life that inhabits it

 

[stanlalee]

I asked myself this question many of times and I concluded that off the selfish things man does keeping fish isn't that big of a deal. Statistically we do MUCH MUCH more harm ordering a seafood platter at red lobster than we do keeping ornamental fish. I'm sure some animal once lived where your sitting right now. I'm sure most of us would like to give them a nice stress free life with easy meals free of grouper and giant hawkfish ambushes for their troubles of entertaining us. I'm sure this industry continues to exist for the same reason most unneccessary industries exist....somebody's getting filthy rich.

 

[ponyta810]

i think of it this way, if i a single person quits this great hobby my lfs will still keep fish in horrible conditions i think that i save them from the lfs and in the wild the reefs are open to much more pullotion in my tank they have to worry about filtration temporarly turning off from a black out like 3 times a year i mean keeping a gropuer in a 55 gallon is cruel but it wil still be done

 

[blackjacktang]

My marine Biolagy teacher said it is Iligal to keep corals.

 

[spinylobster]

Originally Posted by salt nate
http:///forum/post/2838912
spiny,
yeah, you do look a bit scary in your avatar, I think thats probably it.
The possy you bring(behind you) probably doesnt help either

yeah.

I think if you are in this hobby you have love for fish and the sea. Now I do harvest food from the sea in a responsible law abiding way, and some may say thats cruel, hell I feel bad as well, but its all the circle of life right??! I believe by me taking a few fish home, as well as every piece of garbage I find on the ocean floor I am doing the reef community a big favor. Like I said b4 I think the fish we keep in our tanks have it better than in the wild, I dont think they look out the window "like in nemo" and wish for something better. If they had that kind of thought process they would be smart enough to swim away when I jump in the water with a

[hr]
!

 

[legion]

are you serious? Look if you eat you are killing something. If you do this aimlessly you are a killer. Being a reasponsible aquarist is good and actually promotes and one could argue will help the reef(very long term). Aquacultured coral/fish is the way to go, if you can. Trade with people, and do a good job so that your system thrives and doesn't just survive. This is a world full of ISSUES, some more time dependent than others. Since I stared posting here, even saltwaterfish has greatly expanded fraging, aquaculture, added ORA to there sales, etc... Most of use care a great deal for our tanks, which is why we all have spent about 18 billion more dollars in this hobby than we originally thought we would.
Bottom line, take care of your tankmates and help other hobbyists do the same

 

[spinylobster]

I dont know why the last word in my comment go edited. So in case you are wondering waht I put.. It is the same as "underwater shooting mechanism"!

 

[spinylobster]

Originally Posted by Legion
http:///forum/post/2841979
are you serious? Look if you eat you are killing something. If you do this aimlessly you are a killer. Being a reasponsible aquarist is good and actually promotes and one could argue will help the reef(very long term). Aquacultured coral/fish is the way to go, if you can. Trade with people, and do a good job so that your system thrives and doesn't just survive. This is a world full of ISSUES, some more time dependent than others. Since I stared posting here, even saltwaterfish has greatly expanded fraging, aquaculture, added ORA to there sales, etc... Most of use care a great deal for our tanks, which is why we all have spent about 18 billion more dollars in this hobby than we originally thought we would.
Bottom line, take care of your tankmates and help other hobbyists do the same
So I take it you are a vegetarian.. So I will not argue that cause it will go nowhere! Right? However to call me a killer is wrong. I follow laws put forth by the state to RIGHTFULLY haverst food for myself and my family. Nothing goes to waste. Also, many years back they put a ban on Goliath Grouper, mainly because they are too big and stupid for there own good and people were killing them for sport only. Since the ban the have almost single handedly destroyed many of the large reefs here in florida because they have no natural predators. So in a couple years you are going a season open back up to get the population back in order, so who is the bad guy when it comes to savin the reefs?

 

[zshain012]

even if the fish has everything they need and want they still might not be happy. It's like the old saying,"Just because you're rich doesn't mean you're happy"

 

[spinylobster]

So I believe I am arguing with myself!

Sorry legion I misread you post and thought you were calling "me" a killer!
You are right we all need to do are part, and I apologize for jumping to conclusions, however what I said is true. So goodnite all its been a long day!

 

[falsepercula26]

this is like discussing politics and religion....makes for bad company .,If anything does the fish "think" its being mistreated? hardly, they barely remember what part of the tank they just came from!lol. we as species enjoy entertainment weather it be fish in a bowl or a bull and a matador! PETA will hate you anyways...j/k

 

[zshain012]

Originally Posted by FalsePercula26
http:///forum/post/2842012
this is like discussing politics and religion....makes for bad company .,If anything does the fish "think" its being mistreated? hardly, they barely remember what part of the tank they just came from!lol. we as species enjoy entertainment weather it be fish in a bowl or a bull and a matador! PETA will hate you anyways...j/k
word

 

[mboswell1982]

dude, PETA believes that all domesticated animals, from frogs and turtles to horses and cows, need to be killed because they are not part of the natural order

 

[falsepercula26]

PETA- People for the ethical treatment of animals.....hardly an orginzation that condones killing animals domesticated or otherwise....

 

[stdreb27]

It can't be so bad, when set up properly, my fish have no preditors, an abundance of food, perfect water conditions. All they have to do is play all day long and eat.