My Babies Are Dying! Please Help Me!!

[imurnamine]

Okay, I'm sure that this question has been asked a million and a half times, but I'm just so torn up about this that I need a direct one...
I finished my tank 3 - 4 days ago. I'm using this kind of... refrigerated bacteria instead of the bacteria that is mixed in with the sand and stuff... I think that was my first uh-oh. Also, I have not yet purchased a Protein Skimmer; I was told that you don't need one immediately, that you can wait until about a month after you start the tank. Is that wrong...? Anyhow, that night I purchased two Damsels from *****. A domino and a striped. They were perfect. I go to ***** almost every day to look at the fish and talk to my friend who is the Aquatics Specialist there (she is juggling school now so she isn't available to me). I've learned a lot, but apparantly not enough. I did know, however, that the Yellow Tang is a territorial fish, and they particularly do not like their own species to share a small tank with them. I had watched over the last week, several tangs beat up a smaller one. He got to where he was dangerously thin, innards visable through his delicate skin. I got them to move him to a tank so he could be by himself; I came about every day to check on him. Well...
Two days ago, I bought him. My heart just couldn't take it anymore, to watch him in there by himself. Instead of paying $30 or so, the manager let me have him for $13 because I was so concerned with him and that he was hurt. I knew I couldn't get a refund or exchange, that isn't what I was concerned with. I just wanted to save him. I ended up watching him die for a day and a half. During the first day, he had propped himself against the side and just... breathed and moved his eyes. I immediately took a water sample back to my friend at *****. It tested positive for dangerously high levels of Ammonia. Fantastic. She said it was a 'spike' from the refrigerated bacteria I used, and that is why she never reccommends it. She sent me home with a chemical to treat it. I brought a sample back the next day (yesterday) before work. Everything tested perfect. After work I came home and found my dead Tang. For some reason I was absolutely devastated. I had my father bury him. I thought all of the death was over.
This morning I wake up and my Domino is dead. My Striped Damsel still looks fine, he's hiding in the little fake coral thing... I just want to know what is wrong... I'm so confused and I'm tired of crying over this... Please help me! If you think it would be faster, you can use AIM or MSN to get me.
AIM: Rikku Amagawa
MSN: Hooray_Brunette_Ballet@hotmail.com
Please help me, and thankyou!!

 

[hot883]

Ok, hello. To begin with, several things went wrong.
1. Your friend is not very knowledgeable on sw fish for selling you the stuff you bought.
2. Miracle bacteria in a bottle AND cycling with fish is dangerous (as you now see) and very cruel. Their gills are literally being burned.
3. Didn't catch what size the tank is or the filtering on it but a sick fish is NEVER smart (you cannot save them all) If you wanted to save them, stop buying fish at *****.
THEY JUST WANT YOUR MONEY.
Here's how to fix it.
1. stop buying crap from your friend
2. shouldn't be your friend if she is stearing you wrong
3. ask on here NOT ***** before you buy anything. We do not want your money, they do
4. read and read and read somemore before doing anything else. This will end up being a very costly hobby if you don't learn the basic rules.
5. Reasearch cycling on here.
Good luck

 

[imurnamine]

It wasn't my friend who sold me the refrigerated packet of bacteria, it was someone else. My friend is the one who told me not to get anything but the stuff mixed in with the sand, I didn't listen and now I'm paying for it. I had to use some sort of chemical in a bottle to kill the Ammonia. It is between a 30 - 35 gallon tank, and I have an undergravel filter powered by two powerheads... ... ...I'm sorry...

 

[hot883]

You need to get rid of the underground filter. they are outdated worthless pieces of junk. All they do is trap detrius and become nitrate traps.. I would take that out, start the cycle correctly with a raw shrimp and WAIT 4-6 weeks for the cycle to be complete. Only then add a fish one at a time waiting 2 weeks between adding one more etc. Take the dimensions of your tank ie. wxdxh= divide by 231= gallons. 12x20x48= 11,520 divide by 231= 49.87 gallons
You need to know exactly how many gallons so when you do water changes, dosing etc.
You will need to get a HOB (hang on the back filter rated for your tank size or larger and atleast 1 powerhead, those used for the underground filter are perfect to circulate water.

 

[imurnamine]

...Wow... I have spent SO much money already... actually, almost all of my money... So there isn't a way I could keep the undergravel filter, just for the heck of it...? I figured that I would have to get one of the filters that hang on the back sooner or later. I still have one fish left, he seems to be happy and healthy. But who knows how long that will last...?

 

[hardcrab67]

Ok, well I take it you've cycled your tank for 4-6 weeks. My ammonia was still high after a month and I put ammonia chips in the sump for a week to remove it. Did you do a water change after your tank cycled? Most recommend a 50% water change, but no less than 20%. They say don't buy any weak looking fish, Tangs especially. I didn't listen either. Bought a Sailfin that was small and getting beat up by the bigger assorted tangs. He was recovering and just flipped out one day and died. Your going to have this, even if you take all the precautions. Your tang probally was starving to death and to far gone to recover in a new tank. My tank was 6 months old then and thought it was established enough, but they are grazers and you have to supplement seaweed and algae for them in the tank. Take it slow, do alot of reading, and give you tank a week w/o adding anymore fish. I've read that a live sand bed w/ undergravel filter is going to clog your powerheads, so you might want to do routine cleaning w/ your bi-weekly water changes. Cheer up, thats why you got in this hobby, isn't it. :joy:

 

[hardcrab67]

Money what's that?
Oh, that green stuff I give my LFS every week or two

 

[unleashed]

first off it wasnt the bacteria that killed your fish it was your lack of cycling too new of a tank to be harboring a tang in for sure most likely even the damsels.the bacter vital or other types sold are not meant to be used as an instant cycle.this even with a little boost still takes time.patients is the key to a successfull tank.I use bacter vital to boost the cycle of all of my tanks but it still isnt ready for a good month or so.I highly agree with the above post pertaining to the advice your freind is giving you is not in your tanks best interest.all tangs need an establish enviroment and are much too fragile for anything less that perection of water stability and quality.it was not the bacteria that killed this fish it was the fishes natural reaction to improper care at the beginning from the pet store then into a newly cycling tank.i suggest refraining from tangs and other more delicate species for at least 6 months of your tank being set up.there are plenty of articles and pages throughout the internet to research species and proper care and treatment of captive fish.i highly suggest researching everything prior to purchasing in the future.although this sight can be very helpful and informative dont limit your research to us alone.good luck with any future fish you plan on keeping.

 

[imurnamine]

Thankyou for your advice, unleashed and hot. Oh my, is THAT your tank, hardcrab? It's GORGEOUS! ...No one around here really does saltwater, so I don't have really anyone to come over and help me... Everyone tells me something different. I'm just still so confused... All I really want is a mated pair of Clarkii clownfish and a Coral Beauty
Angel... *Sigh*

 

[rustyj]

Originally Posted by ImUrNamine
Thankyou for your advice, unleashed and hot. Oh my, is THAT your tank, hardcrab? It's GORGEOUS! ...No one around here really does saltwater, so I don't have really anyone to come over and help me... Everyone tells me something different. I'm just still so confused... All I really want is a mated pair of Clarkii clownfish and a Coral Beauty
Angel... *Sigh*

I understand what you mean about having so many different oppinions. What you need to learn is what is really going on biologically and the different choices you have in dealing with those environments/conditions. I can only recomend that you buy a reputable book that explains the process and how they delt with. Undergravel filters are inexpensive and if used correctly can be effective. Other types of hang on filters are inexpensive too and work well but one thing that i have found is that establishing a balances system with live sand, live rock (you dont need the 1lb per gallon that is typically recomended, you can do very well with half that estimate as long as you DONT overload your tank). Also, the size of your tank is an issue. The smaller the tank the harder it is to keep stable. And of the four major books that I have read about the aquariums is that the specific value for PH, temp and other chemical levels (except ammonia and nitrite) are not as important as keeping it in a steady state. Fish can adapt to different water conditions, it does place stress on them but once they have adapted they will do fine AS LONG AS THE PARAMETERS REMAIN THE SAME. Just go get a good book like the Conciencious Marine Aquarist or a like book and you will understand what you need to do to create and maintain any size aquarium you want (hopefully now you will listen to the experts and not the sales person). Good luck and tell your local ***** to stop killing tropical fish.

 

[hardcrab67]

Thank you, I try. A friend of mine once said" They'll all tell you something different(LFS), depending on what day of the week it is" and I have to agree w/ him> Now your friend is studying marine biology, is not going to tell you something incorrect. LFS employees on the other hand need to be researched through conversation. Do they own a salt tank or is this a summer job. Age isn't a givin, just because an old man tells you, it might be his PT job, not his passion. This Internet is a wonderful tool. Read a couple different views on the same subject from that form your on reasoning, if you can't that just means you have to research the subject further. Good luck and keep swimming!

 

[imurnamine]

Okay. I can't really afford anything (not even a book right now), I spent my last bit of money on groceries yesterday... I'm going to try and keep my last little Damsel alive...
I'm really confused about protein skimmers. There are two that I've been looking at. The first one is a SeaClone, and the other is a Berlin Airlift 60. The Seaclone for my size aquarium is $90 - $110, and the Berlin Airlift is $40. But, I know that with the Berlin Airlift, you have to buy a... motor or pump thing? What exactly do I need to have to make the Berlin one work? What can you guys suggest to me?

 

[namas05]

Some ***** have ok stock Most do not.
Secondly your tank is too small for a tang, even when your water is good don't buy a tang as your tank is too small and the fish will suffer.
Secondly don't take your water to the pet store to test. Buy the test kits and test yourself.
And always test before you buy the fish not after it is dying in your tank.
***** people don't know near as much as they think they do. And only know what their manager told them.
And the mangaer only know as much as his boss told him. Very few actually have done any reading or have any kind of fish background.
Stick to getting advice from people that have made all the mistakes in the past and can help you from making the same ones.
This is a great source of information. And like stated earlier we don't want your money.
But if you insist on throwing it away we will take some.

 

[imurnamine]

Hehe, I'd may as well have already flushed my money down the potty. I will DEFINATELY be getting a hang-on-the-back filter, but I really need to get that Protein Skimmer sometime soon, but as I said above, I still don't know which of the two available to me is better.

 

[theappe]

To be honest with you...if money is an issue this hobby isnt for you because I love it but man it drains you. And I wouldnt really suggest ***** as a source of information. You really need to change your setup for a more saltwater friendly kind. Like all the above posts said this hobby is all about research. you can check out the faqs here!! GOOD LUCK and dont give up!

 

[imurnamine]

The only reason that money is an issue is because I just got kicked out and am getting accustomed to living on my own in the city... Things will get better, I know they will... Things wouldn't be so hard if I wouldn't have already started this tank...

 

[sagxman]

I recomend getting the HOB filter before the skimmer. You're skimmer won't do much until you are completely cycled anyway.
Take out the undergravel filter. Put on a HOB filter (they're not that expensive for your size tank) and use the power head from the old filter for water movement.
What type of substrate do you have? I'm going to guess crushed coral. I can just see that as being *****'s recomendation. I'm hoping you have live sand. You should also get some live rock. On a budget you could probably get 10-15 lbs. of live rock and 15-20 lbs. of cheaper base rock. It will become live after a while. Keep your one damsel since he's still alive but DON'T put anything else in there until you have completed your cycle. Get a test kit and make sure your amonia, and nitrites are at 0 before doing anything else.
Then you can slowly add another fish or two and a skimmer after you save more money.

 

[kquang]

hey, i've read the seaclone isn't a very good skimmer but there are some out there who have gotten it to work with a few mods. I've seen the Berlin Airlift at ***** and even though it is cheap...it doesn't look too good to me. I recently purchased a Coralife Super Skimmer for under 100 shipped. I've read good reviews about this skimmer. If you can spring for the money....I heard AquaC Remora is a top notch skimmer. Also, if money is tight but you still want a good system then you can buy used items. I bought about 65 lbs. of live rock, a cleaner shrimp, and many extras for 100 bucks off someone. Good luck and welcome to the hobby.

 

[sagxman]

I have a seaclone and can't complain. I have not done any of the mods. It just takes some patience and adjustment to make sure the flow rate is correct. It beats the Skilter that I was using. I turned that into a HOB refugium.
Of the 2 that ImUrNamine mentioned, I think I would go with the Seaclone that comes with the powerhead. For the money I don't think its horrible. But I still the the HOB filter is the first priority.

 

[some1fishy]

Imurnamine,
Heres a quick "free" tip for you. Since you have internet access try researching on "about" dot com and backslash saltwatertanks. You will get a variety of step by step info on a variety of subjects. Including the nitrogen cycle. That is, if finding tihs info on here is difficult to navigate.
As everyone here has stated, research first, buy second. Regardless of how tempting a fish is. LFS' and even the pet co is in it for the money regardless if your friend is there or not. If you think you have no money now, wait until you have that "reef" bug. Not trying to scare you, but EVERYONE on here will tell you it will be an expensive but rewarding hobby.
Good luck and research til it hurts!!! :happyfish