my experiment with sugar dosing.

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by RotaryGeek
http:///forum/post/2735109
Ok i can understand bacteria, but i thought i was supposed to get white stringy like bacteria. I didn't see anybody else mention getting a pink colored bacteria. As for what my levels are, can you take a stab at that? I can't really tell, best as i can see its imbetween 40 and 80 ppm still.

I got pink/red stuff, mostly in my sump filters and it was noticeable in my skimmate. I didn't have any problems with it accumulating in my display. My nitrates were never that high though.
 

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by Sly
http:///forum/post/2735539
Whenever I had nitrate problems in the past I would trace it down to some deficiency in the system and correct it. IMO, sugar dosing is just a cover-up for a real problem. But it can have its uses to temporarily lower the nitrate long enough to keep your livestock alive until you find the source.

This is the best use of sugar dosing imo. I do know people that sugar dose rather then do more regular water changes or because they don't have live rock and those are the main 2 reasons to dose regularly rather then as a quick fix.
 

spiderwoman

Active Member
Have you thought about changing your testing kit to a more accurate one? API is OK for fresh water, but I noticed that my results with SW were not as clear and accurate. I use Salifert for everything and I know I can trust the results. Also you could have your LFS check the levels (in front of you) to be sure that your levels are correct.
 

rotarygeek

Member
i guess your not, not too many people with experience in sugar dosing. i have had my water checked at my lfs too, and it is always the same no matter what test kits i use. ill be ordering a reef .aster test kit on payday though.
 

rotarygeek

Member
Ok well this morning my levels actually seemed worse. nitrates stll looked around 80, not imbetween 40-80. I dosed again and ill keep an eye on it. Also the pink algea is definetly growing. Its covering the middle section of my sump pretty quickly.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
I would not dose with sugar personally. I've read on another popular forum (can't mention the name here I think) a lot of people had their tanks crash many months later after dosing with sugar. It's still a new thing, nobody really knows what effects it'll have months or even years down the road.
My adivse is to find out why your nitrates are so high in the first place. Then reduce them with a good protein skimmer, a fuge with a deep sand bed and chaeto, an good flow in your main tank. Also make sure you have enough LR.
 

rotarygeek

Member
Originally Posted by RCreations
http:///forum/post/2736865
I would not dose with sugar personally. I've read on another popular forum (can't mention the name here I think) a lot of people had their tanks crash many months later after dosing with sugar. It's still a new thing, nobody really knows what effects it'll have months or even years down the road.
My adivse is to find out why your nitrates are so high in the first place. Then reduce them with a good protein skimmer, a fuge with a deep sand bed and chaeto, an good flow in your main tank. Also make sure you have enough LR.
Well i think the nitrates are from lack of water changes and i think other people feeding my tank while im not around. I have a protien skimmer, a fuge with cheato, and good flow in my tank. I have about 65 pounds of live rock. Some of it was base rock when i got it, but its pretty covered now.
 

sly

Active Member
Does your fuge have sand in it? I have seen that by having a shallow sand bed in a fuge that you will have nitrate issues. This is because the sand allows too much oxygen through and the bacteria can't grow. If you have a shallow sand bed in your fuge, try adding some more sand until its at least 4 inches deep. In a month your nitrates will then probably go down on their own.
From what I've seen, red slime is caused by two things... low salinity and high nitrates. If you are using a hydrometer, get a refractometer. Your salinity may be lower than you think... And if you have a shallow sand bed in your fuge, make it deeper. Clean out your prefilters if you have any. Remove the sludge that builds up on the bottom of your tank and only use reverse osmosis water. If you are going to skimp on water changes then you can't skimp anywhere else...
 

aztec reef

Active Member
Stop the sugar, coffe,creamer, vinegar, vodka, kaluah supplements..Do alarge WC, feed less And focus on delivering great water chemistry through the weekly-biweekly WCs (ro/di)..
 

fau8

Member
Once again reviewing the whole process:
1 water changes are the only thing that will fix your issues with that high a nitrate level.
2. the sugar dosing is specifically targeting the nitrate levels and there are many more elements in sea water that need to be replenished. (which is also why waters changes are important).
3. you have still not checked your phosphate levels which is a major contributor to algea growth
4. if your phosphate levels are higher than .3 your cheato will not grow and thus it can not remove any nitrates.
5. you have to determine why your levels are so high. is it to much feeding or the lack of water changing or both.
how long has it been since your last water change?
how much, how often, and what are you feeding?
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Based on your pictures, your chaeto is way too small to really impact the high nitrates. My adivce is to add a 4-6" sandbed in your fuge, add more chaeto, make sure you have a good flow going through it and do lots of water changes to lower the nitrates. Once they are low, your deep sand bed and chaeto will be able to maintain it that way. But you still have to do regular water changes, no way around that.
 

rotarygeek

Member
Yeah guys i get it, water changes are the way to go. Im doing this to prove to myself whether sugar dosing works or doesn't work. Im not so much worried about having the high nitrates, becuase there really isn't anything in my tank that is too terribly effected by them. I promise i won't come on here blaming anybody but myself if my tank crashes. Besides, without experimenting, nothing would change. No new ways of doing anything would ever be discovered. I understand everything you are telling me and i appreciate your input, good or bad, but the experiment will go on till i decide whether it works or not.
Now on to todays results.
Nitrates= 80-160 ppm again. I did feed a whole cube of frozen mysis shrimp yeterday. I think im going to try thawing them then rinsing them for a while and see what that will do.
Ph= about 8.0
I also tested my tap water for nitrites and nitrates, and didn't find either. I retested after that and still didn't find any. Seems like everytime i feed frozen cubed food my nitrates jump up.... im starting to see a pattern here. Im still feeding about a 1/4 sheet (2x2) of sea algea, and my lawnmower blenny is still not eating any. The pink algea doesn't look to have grown any in the last 24 hours either. I know im not looking for immediate results so ill just keep testing and waiting a while longer. I dosed another 3/8 tsp sugar today.
On a totally different side note, i have noticed since i got my air conditioner fixed and have control over the temp in the house again, my evaporation has slowed down to about a half gallon a day. Pretty low for a 55 with a sump if you ask me. Im sure its becuase i have the lid on the canopy closed and the doors to the cabinet closed too. But its just another observation i made.
 

aztec reef

Active Member
what are your expectations of sugar????
Nitrates are in your tank already , Not in your new-ly mixed salt water...
First figure out whats causing your Nitrates & other impurities in water column .
If anything, adding sugar to an out of whack water chemistry its making it worse..
The only proven ways of gettig rid of trates is via Waterchange and organisms comsuming it, such as macroalgeas and denitrifiying bacterial colonies...If u lack in any of those then you might as well call it the sweetest wild gooze chase..
The remaining cures are still open for discussions...
 

rotarygeek

Member
If that was the case, nobody would have had any luck at all with sugar/vodka/vinegar dosing and it would have died before the second person saw it. This process must work otherwise there wouldn't be huge threads on another site where lots of people have done it and had good results with it. In fact, i haven't seen anybody who has had a bad experience with sugar dosing yet. Not saying they aren't out there and that this is fool proof and perfectly safe, just that with all the research i have read, and people i have talked to about this, nobody has shown me a link to anybody having their tank crash becuase of dosing with sugar. Even the people who have posted in this very thread who have done it didn't say anything about having bad effects on their tank. It has shown to work effectivly at reducing nitrates and phosphates, and plenty of people still disagree with this process, and that was my purpose for this thread in the first place. Many people have either never heard about it, or brush it off as something only idiots do and that the absolute only way to have low nitrates is with a dsb/macro/waterchanges. I made this thread to bring this to the attention of the masses of people who are either skeptical at best (like me) or just plain didn't know this existed in the first place, becuase if this works, i see no reason why people should discriminate against this process just becuase it isn't the norm. I understand it isn't very well researched just yet, and its still an imerging technique, but without people to try it and actually moniter results and compile them for someone to analyze, it would die out and never become a viable way to reduce nitrates and phosphates. Sorry if I came off rude there, but im tired of people hinting at that this will not work and that i should stop and resume nothing but waterchanges. I understand that as of now, water changes are the best way of doing pretty much anything, but im not a closed minded person, and this hobby is still growing leaps and bounds all the time, but without experimenting nothing will change and we will forever be stuck with weekly or monthly water changes (not that they are bad, becuase they are a great way to get trace elements and anything else that isn't added directly to the tank). I am just trying to spread this possibly very usefull information to the mass of people who don't know about it for them to make there own judgment on. But for every one person who has done this and had good results, there is 100 closed minded people who have some reason why they don't like it even though they haven't tried it, and won't try it just becuase its not a proven method. Again, sorry if i sounded rude, but i had to say something.
 
R

rcreations

Guest
Nothing wrong with experimenting as long as you know the dangers and are willing to risk loosing everything in your tank. In fact, like you said, it's good because it can prove whether your tank will eventually crash or not.
 

sly

Active Member
Test your frozen food for nitrates. I have seen several brands of frozen food that have nitrates in them. I'm willing to bet that you are simply pouring nitrates into your system...
Consider making your own food. It's cheaper and you know exactly what's in it (no preservatives including nitrates). I use shrimp, algae, scallops, clams, some RO/DI water and a little garlic juice and put them into a blender then pour it into a small ice cube tray.
p.s. Holy wall of text Batman!
 

rotarygeek

Member
how would i go about testing my frozen food? thaw it in a cup and test the water it was in? and yeah sorry about the rant, jus seams like more people are against change even if its good. anyways /rant.
 

moneyman

Member
Originally Posted by RotaryGeek
http:///forum/post/2727467
fortunetly i have a skilter 250 that functions better as a way to introduce air to my system than as a skimmer..
Did your skilter pull out much more gunk after you dose sugar? If not, stop dosing sugar and upgrade your skimmer.
Dosing sugar/vodka w/o a good skimmer is a disaster waiting to happen. All you are doing is reduce the oxygen level and mask the nitrate/phosphate in the water column in bacterial biomass.
 

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
http:///forum/post/2737970
what are your expectations of sugar????
The only proven ways of gettig rid of trates is via Waterchange and organisms comsuming it,

Dosing sugar definitely works, I guarantee that it reduces Nitrates.
 

prime311

Active Member
Originally Posted by RotaryGeek
http:///forum/post/2738133
how would i go about testing my frozen food? thaw it in a cup and test the water it was in? and yeah sorry about the rant, jus seams like more people are against change even if its good. anyways /rant.
I guess I missed where you said you didn't have a protein skimmer, thats kind of a bad problem. You should get a skimmer and then you might not even need to use sugar. I don't know why your nitrates are so high, sky high like that doesnt make any sense. I have a feeling your tests are bad are something is seriously messed up in your tank.
 
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