My QT keeps killing fish 6 chromis 1 clown

[jshepherd]

I will admit I am new to saltwater but have read and read and read.
My main tank is a 150 g rr that has been running for 6 weeks now. It has approx 200 lbs of live rock half of the live rock was bought locally and was out of a tank running for 6 yrs and was never out of water for more than a few minutes.
After 6 weeks I have never seen a cycle and I test every day or two. I have had some snails crabs and 5 emeralds in the tank since week 3 and a blenny at week 4 as well as a coral banded shrimp and cleaner shrimp last week. All are doing fine. I may have a sally or what I thought was a molt maybe was not and 2 pepermint shrimp seem to be missing.
sg1.023
temp 77.5
dkh 10 api and salifert
calc 360 api
mag 1290 salifert
ammonia 0
trites 0
trates 0
phos 0 -.25
So I decided I would set up a new qt tank. It is a 29 gallon new tank aqua clear 70 filter ,stealth heater, maxijet 600ph and approx 30 lbs live rock and a sponge from the main tank. I also used 20 gallons of water from the main tank and the rest new with io salt. I do have a ro di setup as well. I let the tank run for a few days and got 3 chromis from the lfs. I assumed the tank would not cycle with all of the stuff from the main tank but I still checked it daily. I also did a few 30% water changes after deaths and 10% every few days. I tried a red sea ammonia kit as well but it shows .25 ammonia but then again I tested fresh clean saltwater and it still showed .25 so I assume it is not accurate.
Now the bad.
First one chromis died then another so I wondered if they were just not healthy from the lfs. I then purchased 4 more online and 2 were very very small and were the first to go and then another 2 at random. I still had never seen any ammonia,trites or trates at all. I then went to another lfs and paid way to much for what they said were true clowns and I think they were actually false. They were doing great and have been in there with the one chromis for 12 days and were always together both were fairly small. Tonight I just went to check on them and now one of the clowns is dead

I found him under a rock half eaten. Now I am thoroughly upset and just want to quit

I do not understand what is wrong. There is one emerald in the qt tank taking care of some bubble algae that was on some of the rocks but nothing else. The rocks I put in were some of the 6 yr old ones that have been in a tub of fresh heated saltwater for 6 weeks with a powerhead and weekly water changes.
At this rate I assume I will lose the last 2 this week and be back to square one. I was so happy they were doing good I was just about to place an order for zoecon selcon and some rods food.
Please help me understand and feel free to ask me any questions.

 

[michaeltx]

How did you acclimate the new fish to the QT tank?
you state the readings of the main tank but what are the readings of the QT?
also a QT really shouldnt have any rock in there or inverts its a place to treat for disease and watch for diseases?
Did you see anything with the fish that didnt seem right? color, eating, fighting, aggresive, spots anything like that?
It really sounds like your QT is doing what it supposed to do keeping main problems out of the main tank now we got to rule out anything in the QT that might be causeing a problem,
Mike

 

[jshepherd]

the Qt tanks readings were
temp 78
sal1.023
ph 8.4
Amm/Trit/trate 0
I put the rock in there knowing that if there was a problem I would have to pull it out to treat.
I acclimated the first ones using the drip method then the last ones using the bag float then add 1/2 cup ever 4 minutes till the bag was full then empty half the bag and do the same until full.
It is pretty cold here and the drip method left the water very cold in the container so I thought this could have harmed them.
They were eating great and looked great as well. I have hi res pictures so I could study them better. I was using omega one flakes nothing else. I do have a carbon bag in the aqua clear as well. The chromis looks ok but not the other clown looks to be losing his color around his mouth.
I am tempted to get him out and put him in the main tank even though it has only been just under 2 weeks.

 

[michaeltx]

I dont see anything that just jumps out as a trigger for the deaths.
your salinity is a little low IMO and needs to be closer to 1.025-1.026 but 1.023 isnt bad for a fish only tank so that would be a factor IMO
I am going to move this over to the disease and treatment forum maybe you will get a few more suggestions on what might be causeing the problem.
Mike

 

[jshepherd]

Since there is only the blenny and the inverts in the main tank should I just at least put the clown in before he dies? I am making a fresh batch of water right now but it will be morning until it is done. The clown is making laps in the 29 and looks to be losing color fast.. this sucks.
I will try slowly bringing it up to 1.025 I was afraid to get to close to the high end on a small tank due to now having an ato like the big tank.
thanks for the late night help.

 

[michaeltx]

the only problem that I could see is that if the clown and chromis is being effected by some sort of disease or parasite adding them to the display tank could effectively infect the main tank.
have you looked into the tank at night? its a long shot but take a red lens flashlight or red light of some sort and look in the tank and see if there is anything on the fish at night. there are some cirinoid isopods that attack at night. You can also tell if there is something else that might be preying on them at night. just a though anyway and trying to rule things out.
not a problem on the late night thing that what the board is here for
Mike

 

[sepulatian]

have you looked into the tank at night? its a long shot but take a red lens flashlight or red light of some sort and look in the tank and see if there is anything on the fish at night. there are some cirinoid isopods that attack at night. You can also tell if there is something else that might be preying on them at night. just a though anyway and trying to rule things out.
I was thinking this as well.
First one chromis died then another so I wondered if they were just not healthy from the lfs. I then purchased 4 more online and 2 were very very small and were the first to go and then another 2 at random. I still had never seen any ammonia,trites or trates at all. I then went to another lfs and paid way to much for what they said were true clowns and I think they were actually false. They were doing great and have been in there with the one chromis for 12 days and were always together both were fairly small. Tonight I just went to check on them and now one of the clowns is dead
How many have you had in the tank at one time? Can you post a time frame list for when each were added and when each died? Have you double checked your test kit? It is odd that you were testing every day and still have not shown any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate with these various fish going into a new 29, even with the rock in there. At the very least nitrate would show. Hang in there. For now, do not move the clown and do not add any more fish to the 29. If you could post some pictures of these fish, that would be great.

 

[jshepherd]

How much ammonia would it take to kill so many? The api kit after setting for an hour may be at .25 max but at the 5 minutes it was dead zero.
Should I leave the lights on and try to set the alarm for a few hours to change 10 gallons out? It is only at 2 gallons now. I guess I could pull the rocks out to eliminate the possibility something is coming out and killing them and just change the water daily to keep ammonia down right. I am not sure if the bio medi and sponge are enough for 2 small fish. I am sorry I am trying to learn and thought I had it under control.
I am trying to stick to my guns and not put anything in that hasnt been qt'd for 3 weeks except the blenny but it was the only one and for some reason I thought they were safe. Both the clown and the chromis are swimming laps non stop. I do not know what that means either.

 

[michaeltx]

what equipment do you have on the tank.
swimming laps could be a sign of stray voltage in the tank?
Mike

 

[michaeltx]

Originally Posted by jshepherd
http:///forum/post/2605752
How much ammonia would it take to kill so many? The api kit after setting for an hour may be at .25 max but at the 5 minutes it was dead zero.
it doesnt take much but it does take alittle bit of time for ammonia to effect them.
Should I leave the lights on and try to set the alarm for a few hours to change 10 gallons out? It is only at 2 gallons now. I guess I could pull the rocks out to eliminate the possibility something is coming out and killing them and just change the water daily to keep ammonia down right. I am not sure if the bio medi and sponge are enough for 2 small fish. I am sorry I am trying to learn and thought I had it under control.
I would do daily water changes if there is any sign of ammonia
I am trying to stick to my guns and not put anything in that hasnt been qt'd for 3 weeks except the blenny but it was the only one and for some reason I thought they were safe. Both the clown and the chromis are swimming laps non stop. I do not know what that means either.

leaving the lights on 24/7 is bad on the fish and really isnt a good idea I would keep it on a normal lighting schedule.
Mike

 

[sepulatian]

Any ammonia is harmful to fish, especially when they are new, but that may not be all that is going on here. Are the fish's gills red at all? Stray voltage is a possibility. Do you feel a tingle when you put your hand in the tank?

 

[jshepherd]

First try uploading pic

 

[sepulatian]

Test for voltage. The fins are clamped. They are definitely looking stressed here.

 

[jshepherd]

I am trying to test but I am a dc car guy. What is the proper method to test for a/c ? Sorry i would research it if I had a few miuntes. For now I unplugged everythung

 

[michaeltx]

do they look any better once everything is turned off?

 

[jshepherd]

I never felt any type of tingling.
They are both still swimming pretty fast. here is a close up I just took. Hard to catch him while he is swimming.
I have about 5 gallons almost ready with 2 heaters cranking to get it to temp.

 

[sepulatian]

It would take time for them to calm down, but I also think that if it were bad then you would feel it. You may want to plug the heater and power head back in at least. It may help to leave the light off.

 

[jshepherd]

tested water. Main tank has grounding probe 0v
jack dempsey tank 26v fish are doing great though
Qt tank 33v
I took a piece of aluminum welding rod and ran it outside into the ground now it is at 0
Is he aluminum ok until the morning? I didn't want to put copper in the tank. Also should I change out what water I can before i go to bed?
Again many thanks

 

[jshepherd]

Much to my surprise the chromis and clown are still alive this morning, not sure I am

I may pull the rock out in hopes the bacteria is enough in the aquaclear 70 so I can eliminate that variable. Also the emerald is in there and he is huge and thinking back he has been in there the whole time. Do they ever attack fish? One of the tiny chromis died with no marks on him though and one started swimming crooked and upside down so I actually pulled him out before he died.
For my reference can anyone tell me if this is a true or false clown? It was sold as a true but I do not believe a thing they say.

 

[michaeltx]

yes emeralds can attack fish sometimes larger than them the are preditory and if something presents itself they will take advantage of it.
as far as true or false I cant remember to me they look pretty close and I am horrible at iding the 2..
Do they look better this morning since you grounded out the tank. I think you found your problem with the 33v going through there some fish can tolerate it more than others and saltwater are very sensitive to any changes and things in the water.
Mike