My saltwater fish keep going belly up.

[sad fish]

My girls and I are very uneducated about our 55 gallon salt water tank. We can keep new fish for a few weeks and then one by one they die. We have had a blue damsel, a black and white striped damsel for quite a while now. We added a red and white striped lobster looking guy and a chocolate chip star fish a few weeks ago and they are happy. But at the same time we added a dot dash angel, a fish that was purple and yellow as well as a pajama fish and a tomatoe clown. The first two died in the night a few days apart and we removed the clown but I am guessing the girls were too rough because he didn't look well at all in the small tank and he passed within a day or so. I am seriously upset about the amount of money we have spent doing this in a trial and error type of way (as well as seriously embarrasing). But the worst is that my five little girls are devastated each time one passes away. It is quite the production at my house when they are found... I live in a small town and have been going to the same pet store for a while and then ventured out to a ***** about an hour and a half from home for some better help. We have been using the little dip strips to test the water and it always looks good other than the salt seems to be low. I have read on this site that we should be using a different type of testing for our water quality, can you tell me more about that? It seems that the damsels are living through some more difficult water conditions than the other fish can handle???? And what is this that I read about the possibility of stray volage in the tank? how do I test for that? I don't want to spend a bunch of money on this fish tank but it seems to me that we are at huge loss for knowledge! please help, we need to start with the basics.

 

[meowzer]

Welcome to SWF.....
can you tell us all about your tank.....size, equipment, age.....everything....a picture would help too
read all the top threads in the new hobbyist section
GET RID OF THE DAMSELS......they are devils

 

[rcdude1990]

hey and welcome. its best to do muchhhh research on this hobby before you go spending a lot of money on fish. as asked before, we need to know your tank specs.
also how did you acclimate the fish into the tank? did you just drop them in? did you do the drip acclimation process?
also i dont no if this is correct, but from my own experience, i would never buy more than 2 fish when going to the store. i did the same thing you did when i started and learned the hard way.

 

[sad fish]

we have a 55 gallon tank, we have a regular filter like you would see in a freshwater tank but the pet store said that it is sufficient. We do have a power head but I couldn't tell you any specifics, again it is what the pet store suggested. We have quite a bit of live rock and some added shells that we have collected on vacation. We do not have a protein skimmer and the pet store lady said that she did not think that we needed it and that she has seem them cause more harm than good. We have a type of sand in the bottom that was supposed to have live things in it to help our tank. The more I try to explain myself here the more I realise that we are just absolutely stupid about the whole thing, please forgive me. The tank has set up for at least 6 months and things have been pretty consistent BUT... the heater went our already! We had troubles with something tripping the circut breaker!! Can you believe it! I was so worried that we even spent the night at my in-laws for a night until my husband came back from out of town because I was worried about a fire (we live in a wonderful house but it is almost 100 years old). As I started plugging things in one at a time the heater started smoking and of course I unpluged it and removed it immediately. I thought that this would have been horrible for the fish but we did not have any trouble with them for at least a week if not more afterwards. So I am currious about the idea of stray voltage, how can I check for that? I should also mention that we have well water, good because there is no added anything and of course I'm sure it is more than healthy to drink but at the same time I don't know if there is anything in it that is hugely different than what the fish are used to. Could I just be causeing way to much stress on the fish? We just got a timer for the lights so that is consistent everyday and we have started feeding them very small amounts about three times a day. I have also been careful to change the filter at least once a month. The water looks clear and we let the snails do most of the cleaning. It is not in an area of direct sun so it doesn't have any trouble with any excess algae. I will try and take a picture with my phone and upload it. It is probably as dirty as it gets now so I will take a picture as is just so you can see.

 

[sad fish]

Here are some pictures, we have some happy guys for now, very active, eager to eat, etc. Our water temp is about 75 and I think that I read someone else comment that 70's was too low, so what should it be? I just feel awful because we have obviously gotten some really bad info and I am determined to never go back to THAT pet store and will make sure that I will stock pile even filters so we never have to go back there again. It breaks the girls hearts to go through this (not to mention the poor fish) and it is a huge waste of money. From what I am gathering we should not add more than a fish or two at one time and we should not keep the damsels. We also read that the tomatoe clown is moderatly agressive (after the pet store assured us that he was friendly of course). And when I look at pictures of other peoples tank they seem to have a blueish tint and ours of course is very drab. Is something very very wrong?

 

[sad fish]

oh, the power head says 550 on top. hope that helps some.

 

[sad fish]

sorry for the random responces here but... we did acclimate the fish slowly, not as perfectly as I have read on here that others do but I let the bags float in the top of the tank for 15 minutes or so and then started slowly adding water from our tank, maybe four or five times over another half hour and then let them go in our tank. They really seemed fine and all seemed to get along for a while. I really think it has something to do with the quality of our water. Unless the damsels could have taken that long to cause trouble. I did not notice any fins with damage or anything like that. We are not regular with water changes like others have described and of course they need to be done... but what is it that is happening in the water that requires a change? Can it be measured? Please forgive me for asking such remedial questions, I know this all sounds bad to ask but I am just thankful that you all are online and can laugh in the privacy of your own home, lol

 

[rcdude1990]

trust me the more questions, the beter you understand, so dont be afraid to ask. im not a pro but i do hav some idea with this hobby. im a student and i havent payed much attention to my tank in while, but now im getting back into it. your pet store is obviously clueless. a protien skimmer cant cause any harm and it is recommended for all saltwater tanks. yea the damsels are a little aggresive, and the tomato clown is most likely aggressive (i use to have one and took him back to store the next night) i wouldnt be able to answer the temperature of the tank because i forgot, i just looked at my tank and its at 77 degrees.
do you have test kits and a refractometer? a refractometer measures your salintiy (salt level) in the tank, and looke into the ph test nitrite and nitrate tests.
water changes are a definite must to maintain a healthy tank. not sure as the technical medical reason why to do a water change, but i like to think as, your fish poop and pee in the water and the filter doesnt gather allll of it, so with a weekly water change your taking out some water and replacing it with fresh new water. like i said ive been away from my tank for a while (maybe 6 months) and now im looking to get back into the game. the first thing i notice is that my water is a little bit cloudy, possibly due to all the missed water changes. it might sound like a hassle, but if you think about it, you take 45 min out of your day to change the water and clean the glass, itll make your tank look great.
well water im not 100% sure about as i have no clue about water, but i just recently purchased a RO/DI unit, which takes my water from the sink spout, puts it through a series of filters and putouts fresh RO water, which due to much research, is the BEST water to use. do what i did and invest in this unit, it will probably be the best thing you could buy.
i started out with a 55 gallon and thanks to this website and much help from everyone, i upgraded to a 125 gallon tank. the one thing i learned do, IGNORE THE PET SHOP PEOPLE!! they just want your money, any questions at all, dont be afraid to ask here!

 

[wartooth1]

Have you checked your tank's PH, ammonia, and nitrate levels? PH can be adjusted with buffer, ammonia can be lethal if too much is present but the bacteria in your tank should "eat" it until its at 0, and nitrate can be deadly as well if it gets too high. Nitrate levels always rise and the only thing you could do about it is do a water change on a somewhat regular basis.
Hope that helps.

 

[flower]

Hello, welcome to the site.... Boy, you have lots of help already but..I want to add some advice as well.
The lobster looking thing is a coral banded shrimp. The damsels get so evil when they mature, they will bite you drawing blood, and they will kill any other more timid fish you put in the tank. Meowzer is right, get rid of them.
You need a lab type master test kit, the strips are a waste of your money. The temp should be at least 76 to 78...70 is way too low, my cold water seahorses like it at 74.
Test your:
PH
Nitrate
Ammonia
Nitrite
Calcium
Phosphates
Alkalinity
The saltiness of the water should be between 1.023 and 1.026 on a hydrometer...
Well water is no good for fish. You need RO water (reverse osmoses) you can get that at the grocery store or walmart. The well water may not be treated by the city, but it has impurities and metal traces your fish don't need.
From now on, when you do a water change use the RO water to mix the saltwater. Eventually you will remove the well water from your system. The more electric gadgets that you use the more you chance stray voltage. Old equipment is the usual cause. It sounds like your heater was no good to begin with, but it must be replaced, your tank is way too cold.
The surface of your water is too calm...point the power head up to aggitate the surface. Saltwater has less oxygen than freshwater, and it gets it's needed oxygen from the surface.
What I think is killing your new fish...any of the list below.
The damsels
the water temp
your well water
adding too many fish at one time.
Do you know about top off? The water evaporates but the salt does not. You mark your tank at the right water level and as it evaporates you add enough RO (freshwater) to the tank to go back up to the original water level line. A water change is when you remove saltwater and replace the exact same amount of new mixed saltwater in exchange, making sure the SG is the same.
Hope this helps

 

[njbillyv]

Welcome,
Read this:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/390214/snakes-tips-and-tricks-for-new-hobbyists
Also, find a good fish store and take them a water sample and have it tested.
Good Luck!

 

[icedtc]

Good Morning Sadfish,
Sorry to hear about all of your troubles with your tank! It sounds like it may be best to sit down with a pad & paper and write down a checklist of weekly maintenance that should be done in order to help you fish live a healthy life. I am new to the hobby myself but am quickly learning that without proper care and upkeep you will not only be wasting time & money but definately losing more fish too.
How old are your girls? Maybe you can make it a weekly activity to do as a family. The checklist would include such things as: daily temp. checks, salinity checks (with a refracometer not a hydrometer as they are quite unreliable), weekly cleaning on the filters, inspection of your fish to ensure they are healthy, etc. etc. The list doesn't end there but are really things that will need to be done so you don't waste more $$, get more frustrated, and have your girls finding nemo floating on top.
Like other have stated...do not trust many fish stores and that especially goes for ***** type stores. At least around me in NJ...the last time I went in there the poor clown fish all had ick and beat up fins and the store workers still had to problem trying to sell them. Things like this can not only kill those fish but cause an outbreak in your tank.
You will definately need to get a stable temperature in your tank and make sure your salinity stays stable as well. I am going to try and stay with 15-20% water changes bi-weekly and as Flower said...you also need to top off your aquarium with fresh water to account for evaporation.
Here is the honest truth: There are a lot of things you will have to do in order to get a hold of your tank and ensure a safe, stable environment for your fish. These things will cost $$ and take up time. Be sure you have the time, money, and willingness to do this or more bad things will happen. I'm not trying to sound mean in any way but want to point this out to you...as I am learning this myself and I don't even have any fish in my tank yet! This hobby takes $, time, and a lot of love.
From reading this thread, here is what I would do. First off...read all of the amazing stickies on this forum which will really help you learn the basics of what needs to be done to provide a safe environment for your fish. Don't add any more fish until you are sure your temp is stable, your salinity is stable, and your tests all come into safe parameters (ph, ammonia, nitrate, etc. etc.). Get into a daily routine and mark things on your calendar or cellphone reminder list like: water changes, clean filters, top off tank, etc. Once everything is safe, only add 1 or 2 fish at a time if you can. This will keep your fish less stressed and not overload your tank.
I wish you the best of luck and this is a great community we have here. If you have the dedication we can help you get your tank back into shape!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedtc http:///t/390550/my-saltwater-fish-keep-going-belly-up#post_3459516
How old are your girls? Maybe you can make it a weekly activity to do as a family. The checklist would include such things as: daily temp. checks, salinity checks (with a refracometer not a hydrometer as they are quite unreliable), weekly cleaning on the filters, inspection of your fish to ensure they are healthy, etc. etc. The list doesn't end there but are really things that will need to be done so you don't waste more $$, get more frustrated, and have your girls finding nemo floating on top.
Hi, the one and only thing I will disagree with you on...the refractometer. It is a nice gizmo and very accurate, however a hydrometer is perfectly fine to use to match the SG of your tank with the SG of your changing water. I used a little Red Sea hydrometer for 8 years without fail. I did purchase a refractometer when the Red Sea hydrometer was ready to be replaced. There is no need to go out and purchase a gizmo that costs upward of $50.00 when a $6.00 hydrometer will work just fine. Keeping the SG stable is all you need to do...so as long as that little arrow remains in the right spot, you are good to go.
The ONLY time you absolutly must have a refractometer is if you are doing hypo on your fish for ich. That procedure requires on the spot calculations. I never even heard of a refractometer until I came on this site, the LFSs do not carry them ( I have over 8 stores around me and not one carries them)...they have to be ordered online.

 

[icedtc]

Flower,
Good call, I have just heard that if you can...buy a refractometer as it is more accurate than a hydrometer. I got mine from my LFS in NJ. They sell the $10 hydrometers, $50 refractometers, and $100 digital refractometers. I guess it just depends on your LFS.
But I didn't mean it to sound like you cannot get away with a hydrometer just from the majority of the stickies here and from the discussions I've had at a few local LFS, they seem to rely more on the refractometers.
Either way Sad Fish as long as you can maintain a stable SG of your water....your fish will love you for it!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedtc http:///t/390550/my-saltwater-fish-keep-going-belly-up#post_3459546
Flower,
Good call, I have just heard that if you can...buy a refractometer as it is more accurate than a hydrometer. I got mine from my LFS in NJ. They sell the $10 hydrometers, $50 refractometers, and $100 digital refractometers. I guess it just depends on your LFS.
But I didn't mean it to sound like you cannot get away with a hydrometer just from the majority of the stickies here and from the discussions I've had at a few local LFS, they seem to rely more on the refractometers.
Either way Sad Fish as long as you can maintain a stable SG of your water....your fish will love you for it!
You are such a sweetie, I always worry about how someone will take being disagreed with, it's hard sometimes because we can't see each others faces.....If only we all the money it takes to run the perfect system. I fianally have a phosphate reactor on both tanks as of yesterday..LOL, now the skimmer on the 56g had conked out. I can't win. I keep saying I want to buy coral, but I have spent a small fortune on equipment replacement..

 

[icedtc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/390550/my-saltwater-fish-keep-going-belly-up#post_3459549
You are such a sweetie, I always worry about how someone will take being disagreed with, it's hard sometimes because we can't see each others faces.....If only we all the money it takes to run the perfect system. I fianally have a phosphate reactor on both tanks as of yesterday..LOL, now the skimmer on the 56g had conked out. I can't win. I keep saying I want to buy coral, but I have spent a small fortune on equipment replacement..
Flower,
I have definately learned 1 thing from internet forums...no matter what the question...there will be disagreements haha. It's silly when people get mad at one another over it, afterall we are all here because we enjoy the same passion .
I hear you on the $$ aspect. With my 92 gallon tank I got it was supposedly coming to me "reef ready". Then it arrives with a light with 2 of 4 bulbs broken, no sand or rock, 1 powerhead that was too small, a return pump 1/4 of the proper size, and a "sump" that consisted of a 5 gallon bucket of bioballs and a 1/2" hose lol. Reef ready it was not! $1,000.00 (and about 1 month later) I finally have my sand and live rock in as of last night! Thank God it's tax return season!
Sorry to hijack the thread Sad Fish but I can promise you 1 thing...although we may disagree on the forum from time to time we most certainly will give you better advice than 99.9% of all ***** employees .

 

[beaslbob]

The banded coral shrimp and starfish can be dangerous to the fish. You might want to consider returning for store credit.
I would highly recommend you add macro algaes like chaetomorphia or even caulerpa prolifera. What I did with my 55g was cram in a 1/4" square plastic grid lighting diffuser for dropped ceiling about 3" in front of the back glass. Then I added 2 4' 2 tube flourescent light fixtures 6" behind the tank point forward. The macros were placed between the back glass and the eggcrate and protected there to grow and condition the tank. With 6500k lights the macros thrived and nitrates dropped to 0 in a few weeks. Phosphates a few weeks later.
The macro algae will balance out and stabilize operation consumeing the fish waste and carbon dioxide while returning oxygen and fish food.
just my .02

 

[southern wolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sad fish http:///t/390550/my-saltwater-fish-keep-going-belly-up#post_3459486
The more I try to explain myself here the more I realise that we are just absolutely stupid about the whole thing, please forgive me.
That is not true. Stupid people don't come ask for help... they think they are doing it correctly and just keep going. Quite frankly... I think your quite smart for seeking help in understanding something you were having problems with. Matter of fact... that is why I am here myself. To learn so I can have a quality salt tank.
Welcome to the site and the guys and gals here can get you on the right track.

 

[icedtc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Wolf http:///t/390550/my-saltwater-fish-keep-going-belly-up#post_3459593
That is not true. Stupid people don't come ask for help... they think they are doing it correctly and just keep going. Quite frankly... I think your quite smart for seeking help in understanding something you were having problems with. Matter of fact... that is why I am here myself. To learn so I can have a quality salt tank.
+1
The "stupid" thing would be to just buy fish every few weeks and replace them after they mysteriously die. You took the first step and came to a great forum where people with years of experience can help. Hopefully it will not only help you but get you even more interested in the hobby. Then you can your daughters can have years of fun together gaining knowledge while keeping your fish safe and happy.

 

[sad fish]

thanks everyone for all your help. I went into my local pet store today, looked at the shelf for a little bit and walked out. I really really wanted the master test kit and a refractometer but I contained myself, with held my money and came home to order it online. I will anxiously wait 7-10 days for my stuff. I know that ***** has gotten a bad name but the ***** that we went to seemed to know what they were talking about. They were concerned about the fish that we had already purchased that could be agressive (from the other pet store) and urged me to bring in my water to be tested. Someone mentioned that the starfish and shrimp could be harmful, how do you mean?