My sump is going crazy. help!
- Thread starter gio28
- Start date
posiden
Active Member
Who makes it?
I understand what they say it is rated at. However, they are never right it would seem. It is like they over rate them or rate them based on a full siphon use.
I would re-plumb it using 1.5" pipe leaving the bulkhead.
I would agree to disagree with the eairler post that flow through a sump doesn't really matter. It would all depend on what you have in there and then you would be running a refugium and not a sump. A sump is nothing more than another box of water with a pump and a heater. Even then 5-10 times flow with the better being 10 times, is what you want. IMO. Any more then that and you are just wasting. If you are running a DSB then "I" would do it remotely so that the flow could be slowed down to accomidate it. Also if you ever had any problems with it you can just shut it down. So IMO you should try to make this work and not throttle down the pump so much.
If you decide to just turn down the pump.....then put a T fitting in the return line to recirculate the water you don't want going up to the display, back into the sump. you will need a ball valve on this off take line so you can regulate the flow. This way the pump can run fully open causing no noise issues and no shortened life span.
I understand what they say it is rated at. However, they are never right it would seem. It is like they over rate them or rate them based on a full siphon use.
I would re-plumb it using 1.5" pipe leaving the bulkhead.
I would agree to disagree with the eairler post that flow through a sump doesn't really matter. It would all depend on what you have in there and then you would be running a refugium and not a sump. A sump is nothing more than another box of water with a pump and a heater. Even then 5-10 times flow with the better being 10 times, is what you want. IMO. Any more then that and you are just wasting. If you are running a DSB then "I" would do it remotely so that the flow could be slowed down to accomidate it. Also if you ever had any problems with it you can just shut it down. So IMO you should try to make this work and not throttle down the pump so much.
If you decide to just turn down the pump.....then put a T fitting in the return line to recirculate the water you don't want going up to the display, back into the sump. you will need a ball valve on this off take line so you can regulate the flow. This way the pump can run fully open causing no noise issues and no shortened life span.
posiden
Active Member
With it "going too fast, with lots of bubbles" makes me think it is pulling in and out of a siphon. Siphons run real fast.
My other thing would be for you to try a stockman stand pipe in there. It will help but without larger diameter pipe for the drain I don't think you will get there. Not quietly.
My other thing would be for you to try a stockman stand pipe in there. It will help but without larger diameter pipe for the drain I don't think you will get there. Not quietly.
posiden
Active Member
Here is a testominal on your OF. It is from dr. fosters. You have two 45's so you will be a little less then this statement,
quote;
Excellent Overflow Box. Always restarts without incidents. Have been using the PF-800 for 6 months and made it through 3 power failures no problem, not to say how many feedings when pump is shut off. Nice solid construction! Only thing I had issue with is they claimed up to 800 gallons an hour, I could only get around 450 with 1" pipe straight to sump
quote;
Excellent Overflow Box. Always restarts without incidents. Have been using the PF-800 for 6 months and made it through 3 power failures no problem, not to say how many feedings when pump is shut off. Nice solid construction! Only thing I had issue with is they claimed up to 800 gallons an hour, I could only get around 450 with 1" pipe straight to sump
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3137510
so what should i do since the only size drain it was made for is 1"PVC?
btw, thanks for all your help
Did you buy it new? You could exchange it for a bigger one. If you look they say "max flow" on the rating. Wet web has a posting on bulkhead sizes. I haven't read it I just glanced at it and they seem to think that a 1" bulkhead is only capible of like 350GPH. IDK about that. I am going to look more close at thier testing. I don't think they acounted for some things.
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3137512
and how can i fix the siphon problem?
You need larger drains. By going bigger in the pipe it will allow the water to run on the inside along the walls with air in the center keeping it quiet. Right now it is able to span the diameter and pull down if you will. Creating the splashing and air.
I just thought about it and do you have a 45 at the end of your drain run for that extra piece? If so, take it off. It isn't helping you any.
*Disclaimer* This is all my opinion.
1" pipe has an ID of like 3/4". You need 1" min ID (1 1/4" pipe) to flow 600GPH. If I were in your position and I could, I would exchange the HOB OF Single for a dual 1". (I am not mentioning drilling your tank as you would have already, if it were an option) I would run that or I would mod it so I could run a Herbie system with it. It shouldn't be hard to mod in a Herbie.
http:///forum/post/3137510
so what should i do since the only size drain it was made for is 1"PVC?
btw, thanks for all your help
Did you buy it new? You could exchange it for a bigger one. If you look they say "max flow" on the rating. Wet web has a posting on bulkhead sizes. I haven't read it I just glanced at it and they seem to think that a 1" bulkhead is only capible of like 350GPH. IDK about that. I am going to look more close at thier testing. I don't think they acounted for some things.
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3137512
and how can i fix the siphon problem?
You need larger drains. By going bigger in the pipe it will allow the water to run on the inside along the walls with air in the center keeping it quiet. Right now it is able to span the diameter and pull down if you will. Creating the splashing and air.
I just thought about it and do you have a 45 at the end of your drain run for that extra piece? If so, take it off. It isn't helping you any.
*Disclaimer* This is all my opinion.
1" pipe has an ID of like 3/4". You need 1" min ID (1 1/4" pipe) to flow 600GPH. If I were in your position and I could, I would exchange the HOB OF Single for a dual 1". (I am not mentioning drilling your tank as you would have already, if it were an option) I would run that or I would mod it so I could run a Herbie system with it. It shouldn't be hard to mod in a Herbie.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3137517
ohhh, ok i totally understand the problem now. so it really cant do what it says...esp. with my restrictions on it. i need a smaller pump that will do around maybe 400GPH tops...which will also work out good for my sumps main purpose as a fuge w/ DSB and chaeto.
Bingo.
400GPH with head loss. Maybe the Via Aqua 1300. You could then throttle it down just a bit if needed.
http:///forum/post/3137517
ohhh, ok i totally understand the problem now. so it really cant do what it says...esp. with my restrictions on it. i need a smaller pump that will do around maybe 400GPH tops...which will also work out good for my sumps main purpose as a fuge w/ DSB and chaeto.
400GPH with head loss. Maybe the Via Aqua 1300. You could then throttle it down just a bit if needed.
gio28
Active Member
my pipe has 1" ID and 1 1/4 OD. i already glued the the pvc on the box so it is stuck for good. do you think it will be able to do say...450 GPH if a cut off the pvc close to where is glued and used a vinyl tube to go into the sump (eliminating the angles and ball valves and going in a more vertical position)
then my return pump would do 400GPH max?
lol im sorry for bugging you...thanks!
then my return pump would do 400GPH max?
lol im sorry for bugging you...thanks!
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3137547
lol i didnt catch that post in between...so yeah either the 1300 or 1800. i am gonna keep the pump hard plumbed and it has about 2 1/2 ' of head loss to account for...so maybe the 1800 and i'll throttle a tiny bit if needed.
Well I thought you were running 1" pipe. DOHH.
How far are you draining? 2 1/2 feet of head?
http:///forum/post/3137547
lol i didnt catch that post in between...so yeah either the 1300 or 1800. i am gonna keep the pump hard plumbed and it has about 2 1/2 ' of head loss to account for...so maybe the 1800 and i'll throttle a tiny bit if needed.
Well I thought you were running 1" pipe. DOHH.
How far are you draining? 2 1/2 feet of head?
posiden
Active Member
I thought about it some today and I have what I believe to be a better way. If I were in you position this is what I would do.
Take out the foam block, leave the plumbing you have now alone. I would drill a hole in the side of the OF box for another bulkhead. You can DIY the bulkhead or buy one it is up to you. I would 90 right off the side into a hose barb fitting. Using vinyl tubing and zip ties I would chase the tubing down the existing drain pipe. Fire up the pump fully open and then start closing off the ball valve on the drain. This will force the drain into a siphon. I would close it off so it just can't handle the flow rate so that the other drain just kicks in with a trickle. That's it. You will be creating a Herbie type drain inside your little OF box.
From the drain side of the box you will have added a slight bit of security that was not there before. The drain will be silent with the pump running full tilt. If somthing should happen to the main drain the other will kick in more and make noise alerting you of a problem with the system. I would hope that the desingers of the box would have made it possible for the teeth to handle the full 800GPH that they rate the box for. If not then you will need to remove ever other tooth.
The saftey we added is only good for the one side. So the chance you were going to take on the inlet to the U-tube will be the same. No ideas on that one yet. I drew up a picture on my bench at work and took a pic of it with my phone but I can't get the computer to read my SD card right now. So, I will come up with another way to get you a scetch.
What do you think? You like the idea?
Take out the foam block, leave the plumbing you have now alone. I would drill a hole in the side of the OF box for another bulkhead. You can DIY the bulkhead or buy one it is up to you. I would 90 right off the side into a hose barb fitting. Using vinyl tubing and zip ties I would chase the tubing down the existing drain pipe. Fire up the pump fully open and then start closing off the ball valve on the drain. This will force the drain into a siphon. I would close it off so it just can't handle the flow rate so that the other drain just kicks in with a trickle. That's it. You will be creating a Herbie type drain inside your little OF box.
From the drain side of the box you will have added a slight bit of security that was not there before. The drain will be silent with the pump running full tilt. If somthing should happen to the main drain the other will kick in more and make noise alerting you of a problem with the system. I would hope that the desingers of the box would have made it possible for the teeth to handle the full 800GPH that they rate the box for. If not then you will need to remove ever other tooth.
The saftey we added is only good for the one side. So the chance you were going to take on the inlet to the U-tube will be the same. No ideas on that one yet. I drew up a picture on my bench at work and took a pic of it with my phone but I can't get the computer to read my SD card right now. So, I will come up with another way to get you a scetch.
What do you think? You like the idea?
gio28
Active Member
thats genius! i really like the idea!
thanks for going so detailed, it really helped me. my only concern is if something overflows or is kinda unstable (in terms of flow). besides that it seems like it would work great.
for the simplicity i like the stockman, but for all other reasons i like yours. if flow becomes an issue ( i only want 10X turnover) i will try your idea out.
thanks for all your help.
as far as pump size i need to stick with via aqua for my return cause that is the way my return pipe is designed. idk to go with the 1300 or 1800.
thanks for going so detailed, it really helped me. my only concern is if something overflows or is kinda unstable (in terms of flow). besides that it seems like it would work great.
for the simplicity i like the stockman, but for all other reasons i like yours. if flow becomes an issue ( i only want 10X turnover) i will try your idea out.
thanks for all your help.
as far as pump size i need to stick with via aqua for my return cause that is the way my return pipe is designed. idk to go with the 1300 or 1800.
posiden
Active Member
Originally Posted by gio28
http:///forum/post/3138359
thats genius! i really like the idea!
thanks for going so detailed, it really helped me. my only concern is if something overflows or is kinda unstable (in terms of flow). besides that it seems like it would work great.
for the simplicity i like the stockman, but for all other reasons i like yours. if flow becomes an issue ( i only want 10X turnover) i will try your idea out.
thanks for all your help.
as far as pump size i need to stick with via aqua for my return cause that is the way my return pipe is designed. idk to go with the 1300 or 1800.
No worries, that's why were here right?
Well you have a 58Gallon right? I would go for the 1800 myself. If you had to you could mod the return line like I mentioned eariler. The only place I can see an unstability issue is the teeth on the display side. Bu then like I said, just remove every other one. Can you tell me how big the slots are in the teeth? Also, how many slots there are, and how deep they are?
On the stockman idea, I had a thought on that too. I am unsure of it though. I would like to build it and test it out first before I recomend it. How far below your display is the sump?
http:///forum/post/3138359
thats genius! i really like the idea!
thanks for going so detailed, it really helped me. my only concern is if something overflows or is kinda unstable (in terms of flow). besides that it seems like it would work great.
for the simplicity i like the stockman, but for all other reasons i like yours. if flow becomes an issue ( i only want 10X turnover) i will try your idea out.
thanks for all your help.
as far as pump size i need to stick with via aqua for my return cause that is the way my return pipe is designed. idk to go with the 1300 or 1800.
No worries, that's why were here right?
Well you have a 58Gallon right? I would go for the 1800 myself. If you had to you could mod the return line like I mentioned eariler. The only place I can see an unstability issue is the teeth on the display side. Bu then like I said, just remove every other one. Can you tell me how big the slots are in the teeth? Also, how many slots there are, and how deep they are?
On the stockman idea, I had a thought on that too. I am unsure of it though. I would like to build it and test it out first before I recomend it. How far below your display is the sump?