Need advice setting up a filtration system

[trish&dave]

For our 120 gallon tank, we currently have a W/D filter with two 1" pipes flowing water from the tank to W/D. The W/D is in the laundry room about 5' from the tank. We are wanting to add a 36"x13"x16" sump that will be place on the stand over the W/D. The top of the sump will be approximately 4' above ground level.
I will have the option to drill the sump if needed. Below is an example of the sump and W/D. The W/D is drilled (if looking at the picture) in the front right with a 2" pipe connected to our dart pump. We also have a 1" drilled bulkhead that is ball valved off in the "toe" of the "boot". Not currently using and I am not sure what it was used for. We were going to use it and connect a pump for automatic water changes. I will try and send a picture of our actual set up later tonight.
Questions: Where would you drill if you had this set up? Where would you pull water from the W/D up to the sump? where would you return it to the W/D? Will I need 2 pumps or could I use a modified version of the pipe overflow to get it out of the sump down to the W/D? Would you just drill and have it flow down through a 1" flex tubing out of a bulkhead? What size pump to return?

 

[natclanwy]

I am waiting for pics so I can get a better idea what you are trying to do, but just for clarification what are you trying to accomplish by adding the sump? Are you going to put a refugium in the sump, or is it just additional water volume?

 

[trish&dave]

It will be set up as a refugium with figi mud, sand, cheato, and mangrove trees.

 

[natclanwy]

If it was me I would replace the wet dry with the sump since the refugium will have the same function as the wet dry without the maintenance and would be less complicated, but that is personal preference. Anyway to add this to your current setup with it being 4' above the ground I don't think it is feasible to take water from the DT directly to the refugium so it will have to come from the wet dry.
I would definitely drill two holes in the sump one on each side so that you can plumb the input into one side and flow across the tank to the drain and then back to the wet dry. You can control the level of the refugium by using a slip fitting on a stand pipe. To get water up to the refugium you could "T" of your return pump or use the other bulkhead fitting and install a second pump send water to the refugium, you won't need a very big pump since flow through a refugium doesn't need to be very high 200gph is way more than enough. The drain line should go back into the intake side of the WD to prevent air bubbles from being sent back to the DT.
You are going to have to be careful how high you run the water level of your WD since now you have two tanks draining to it if the power goes out. You may find that your WD doesn't have enough capacity to handle both tanks.

 

[trish&dave]

Thank you guys so much for the ideas! Now that I have pictures, hopefully I can get some additional feedback. Thanks to natclan, I think I know what I want to do, but I have several questions. As you will see in the picture, we have a dart pump (we actually just had a new one sent to us, but the same model) that runs a 1 1/2" pipe through the wall to a 3 way splitter. Two go to the overflow outflow and one to the middle of the tank behind our rock display.
When I install the new dart pump, I plan to put a ball valve (one that can be disconnected) half way from the pump to the wall. After the valve I was planning to add another splitter (should I use a "T" split or one that splits at 45 like a "y"?). Assuming use of a "y" split (reducing to 1"), I would then add some 1" pipe running to the back of the stand, add another 45 degree running up to the bulkhead fitting. I would add another ball valve to regulate flow if needed. Then add a 90 degree and connect to bulkhead.
I think that is the best way without adding another pump and would further regulate the flow to the tank (we currently are having a major sand storm in the tank, everything is soft plumbed so the tank is getting close to 3000 from the pump). Several questions:
-How much would the first "y" split regulate flow to the tank?
-Could I actually split it 3 ways and use one of the splits for water changes?
-Natclan, if I were to only use a refugium, would the dart pump have too much flow going through? It is rated at 3600 gallons and I really have very little head loss.
-Could someone provide a little more detail on how they might plumb the return back to the WD, any pictures or resources would be appreciated! I was thinking a pipe overflow that has a 45 degree in it to get it back to the inflow area (if needed, depending on the width of the tank).
The tanks has cycled and we are getting excited about adding some hardy softies into the tank. Just want to have the refug set up and running before hand. I have also added a picture of the display tank after my wife sends it(the rock work will be modified once we start the move from our 56, but the base is pretty set). The lighting is temporary until we are ready to make a the full move. I will be bringing another MH 250 and two 48" antics over and placing in our canopy that is not pictured. Opinions are appreciated and welcome. I added a picture of our 56 gallon as well.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!!! As many know, this is an exciting and nervous transition that you want to get right the first time. I am grateful for sites like this to help through the process!

 

[trish&dave]

The more I think about it, if I am filling the refugium with water that is already flowing from the WD that is mixed with the refugium water, does that make much of a difference? When I add a Skimmer, should I place the skimmer in the first section of the refugium? I know the skimmer is supposed to be before the refugium.
Just continue thinking about it, I am really looking forward to some opinions even if it is to suggest a completely different set up than I am thinking. I am still relatively new at this, so I will listen to ANY advise.
Thanks!

 

[trish&dave]

Lots of views, no one out there with any suggestions???? Please.

 

[natclanwy]

I am working on some other stuff at the moment so I haven't read through your reply completely but that I would post a couple things so you didn't think I forgot about you.
3600gph IMO is too much flow for a refugium,
Here is a suggestion, given your setup and since you already have the pump I would use the dart for a closed loop, and ditch the WD (you can incorporate one into the fuge if you like using live rock) and just have the fuge with a inexpensive dedicated pump such as a quiet one 3000 or 4000 or other similar pump to move water through the fuge and back up to the tank.

 

[trish&dave]

Thank you natclan! I was looking into the closed loop yesterday. I have an opportunity to get a 75 gallon tank for $40 and was thinking of using that for my refugium.
-With two built in overflows, would that be too much for a refugium?
-How would I get water out of the tank for the closed loop?
-Would I use the overflows for the closed loop and something else for the refugium?
-If I have a closed loop, could I use my outflow as flow to the sump and the drain for the closed loop? Just have the two 1" going into a 2" pipe, then back out to the tank with no storage?
I was looking at Vini Vidi's set up for his 125 and was thinking of doing something similar to that for the closed look, just worried about our built in overflows (2 located on the back wall) and getting the flow around those without blocking anything.
So many questions, sorry! Like I said, I just want to get this right before moving anything into the tank. I hope to get the final plumbing done this weekend, so anyones opinions are appreciated!!!!! Thanks so much for your time and help!!!!

 

[natclanwy]

Here are my suggestions:
Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2663274
Thank you natclan! I was looking into the closed loop yesterday. I have an opportunity to get a 75 gallon tank for $40 and was thinking of using that for my refugium.
-With two built in overflows, would that be too much for a refugium?
The overflows will only flow as much as what is returned to the tank from the return pump. With built in overflows you don't have to worry about the pump capacity until you start to push more water than the overflows can handle.
-How would I get water out of the tank for the closed loop?
The cleanest way is to drill the back of the tank for your outlets and inlets but you could also use pvc and a couple of 90's to make a suction tube that would hang over the edge of the tank.
-Would I use the overflows for the closed loop and something else for the refugium?
You will want to use the overflows for the refugium. Only really need one for the fuge but I think you would end up with a microbubble problem if you tried to use one or both of the overflows for the closed loop.
-If I have a closed loop, could I use my outflow as flow to the sump and the drain for the closed loop? Just have the two 1" going into a 2" pipe, then back out to the tank with no storage?
Can't picture what you are asking here, if you are asking about pumping water to the sump it won't work you will end up with a flood.
I was looking at Vini Vidi's set up for his 125 and was thinking of doing something similar to that for the closed look, just worried about our built in overflows (2 located on the back wall) and getting the flow around those without blocking anything.
His design looks great definently don't see any issues with it and I don't think your overflows will be much of an issue might have to skip the returns in those two corners or move them one one side or the other of the overflow.
So many questions, sorry! Like I said, I just want to get this right before moving anything into the tank. I hope to get the final plumbing done this weekend, so anyones opinions are appreciated!!!!! Thanks so much for your time and help!!!!

 

[trish&dave]

Thanks again natclan! I am going to go with the closed loop. After more research, I again have more questions.
-The dart pump is rated at 3600 gph, will the set up you mentioned "pvc with a couple of 90's" be enough to feed 3600 gph (I know there will be head loss and reduction due to 90's) for the closed loop?
-The input for the dart is 2", should I feed it with two 1 1/2" pvc pipes and a couple of 45 degrees going into a "y" then into 2" pvc?
-Any ideas on design?
SO MANY DECISIONS!!!

What do you think: Keep the WD and use that as my water source for the closed loop and use an overflow design similar to melvsreef's 29 gallon to feed the refugium using our mag 9 going back to the tank with a SCWD? or ditching the WD using the water source above and feed the refugium with our built in overflow?

 

[trish&dave]

Anyone? Please help! I built the closed loop, just need to know what to do for flow to the dart pump. Would two 1 1/2" overflow pvc set ups be too much, not enough? The return will have two 90 degrees, one out of the pump and one at top of the tank. Head loss will be approximately 5 feet. Should I mount the dart higher to reduce head loss? The closed loop is 1 1/2" going down to 3/4" for the flow.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2667397
Anyone? Please help! I built the closed loop, just need to know what to do for flow to the dart pump. Would two 1 1/2" overflow pvc set ups be too much, not enough? The return will have two 90 degrees, one out of the pump and one at top of the tank. Head loss will be approximately 5 feet. Should I mount the dart higher to reduce head loss? The closed loop is 1 1/2" going down to 3/4" for the flow.
2-1.5" supplies for the dart are plenty.Glass-Holes.com has an overflow box designed specifically for the dart.However i chose to go the cheaper more efficient way that didnt involve any more work.If you decide to drill the tank i would turn the two 1.5"pipes into 2"at a Tee immmediately via reducer bushings.The Dart pump has a 2" suction side and a 1.5" discharge,i have been told by a few people with some experiance to go with 2" on the discharge side as well and then reduce pipe as close to the tank as possible.I waited until i got to my manifold on top of my tank until i reduced again at the modular line.This will give you maximum flow out of the dart.I also bult a rack for the pump so i only have 24" head.The pump rocks,its quiet and efficient.

 

[trish&dave]

Well, I got most of the closed loop and DIY overflows dry fitted and the overflows drilled (I will post pictures later this evening). I drilled 1/4" holes 1" apart for a total of 10" on all four sides. This is connected to a slip fit then another 6" into a 90 then into a "t" fitting that is capped by a reducer down to a 1/2" female and inserted a

[hr]
for suctioning. Does that sound like enough holes?
Once over the tank I have increased the pipes from 1 1/2" to 2". The right side (if facing the tank) will go straight down to a "y" fitting where the left side will connect via a 45 degree. This will then go down to a 90 degree and into the pump. Since I already had a 1 1/2" regulator (one that can be disconnected), I will be taking the outflow to the closed loop the whole way using 1 1/2" pvc.
What is the best way to connect the closed loop to the tank? Veni, I see where you had a few pieces of wood, is that temporary or what you plan to use? Due to my canopy, I had to shorten my CL where it will not fit directly on the edges of the tank, so I would definitely appreciate any recommendations!
Thanks again to those who commented before!

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2668799
Well, I got most of the closed loop and DIY overflows dry fitted and the overflows drilled (I will post pictures later this evening). I drilled 1/4" holes 1" apart for a total of 10" on all four sides. This is connected to a slip fit then another 6" into a 90 then into a "t" fitting that is capped by a reducer down to a 1/2" female and inserted a

[hr]
for suctioning. Does that sound like enough holes?
Once over the tank I have increased the pipes from 1 1/2" to 2". The right side (if facing the tank) will go straight down to a "y" fitting where the left side will connect via a 45 degree. This will then go down to a 90 degree and into the pump. Since I already had a 1 1/2" regulator (one that can be disconnected), I will be taking the outflow to the closed loop the whole way using 1 1/2" pvc.
What is the best way to connect the closed loop to the tank? Veni, I see where you had a few pieces of wood, is that temporary or what you plan to use? Due to my canopy, I had to shorten my CL where it will not fit directly on the edges of the tank, so I would definitely appreciate any recommendations!
Thanks again to those who commented before!
You have pictures of what you're trying to do with a closed loop. Typically people drill into the tank, with a bulk head and directionalize the flow, with pvc or lockline. Personally for a 56 gallon tank a 3600 gph pump is going to turn the tank into a sand storm, unless it is being split several times.
I'm also a fan of the wet-dry approach, it allows for mechanical filtration. something that we tend to overlook. The problems are as mentioned before the upkeep nessasary to keep the water params in check.

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by trish&dave
http:///forum/post/2668799
What is the best way to connect the closed loop to the tank? Veni, I see where you had a few pieces of wood, is that temporary or what you plan to use? Due to my canopy, I had to shorten my CL where it will not fit directly on the edges of the tank, so I would definitely appreciate any recommendations!
Thanks again to those who commented before!
I fit my CL manifold on top to fit in tight.My plan for support is to take 2" pipe and cut it like spacers to wrap around the 1-1/2" side outlet 90s and Tees to for support.

 

[trish&dave]

Thanks for the response stdreb, but this is actually for a 120 gallon. The 56 pictured is our current tank. Below are some pictures as promised. More to come.

 

[trish&dave]

Here are some pictures of the tank with some temporary rock work. The base will stay mostly the same. I have some excellent curved rock in the 56, pictured above, that will create some more caves. The top of it was just thrown together.
If you look closely, you can see my overflows for the closed loop. They are in the middle of the tank between the built in overflow. Any chance of painting the PVC before hooking it up? I would like to paint it black.

 

[veni vidi vici]

SWEET!

 

[stdreb27]

So did it work? And did you get it to start? You'll be surprised how much pressure is in those pipes so make sure the pumping is secure.