Need help - How much is TOO much on MH's

[bj]

I'll post this here as well. Got conflicting answers from a few different manufactuers - imagine that ? I have: 110 gal tall - 30" tall X 18" wide X 48" long. Canopy same and is 6" deep. This will be a primarily corals very few fish. I asked if 250W and 10000K bulbs would microwave my hood and glass. One responded saying I should go with 400W 10000K bulbs instead, 1 said I needed a taller canopy and fans, and the last guy said I should do PC's. All I would like to know is whether the (2) 250W 10000K's would do what I need efficiently, but effectively, or do I pay $120 more for the 400W's ?
(I also could get (2) 250's 6500K and (2) 65W 7100K PC's with remote ballasts for the same $$$)

 

[q]

It really depends on what corals you want to keep in selecting wattage.
6 inches is prety close to the water though. Would the bulbs be 6 inches from the water or is that the height of the canopy. If that is the canopy height that would put the bulbs around the 4 inch mark which is too close IMO.
List the corals you want and wait for Adrian to give a response. He has the most MH experience that I know of.

 

[wamp]

250 watt would be just fine over your tank.. in fact more than enough.. you could even go to 175 watt and still keep anything you wanted. Stony corals like a lot of lot but if you like alot of leathers like i do you could even just run VHOs.. But Me, I have halides (3-175 watt) over my 180.

 

[bj]

Wamp are you running just the the 3 175's on your tank and if so what 5500, 6500K ? you don't feel it necessary to add the actinics for the color ? That would save a lot of $$$

 

[accurate]

i have a mh canopy with 2 175 german 10k and 2 40 watt actinics I had mine about 6inches from my glass and the only thing that happened is lots of algae and the glass tops had to be cleaned more often is seemed cause the heat from the light seemed to bake the salt and algae to the glass. Just my exper.
i just moved, reset my tank and now have my mh suspended. i can get to my tank easier w/o having to lift the canopy and worry about lights in the way.. I have the mh on a separate timer than the actinics so the act come on for about 1 1/2 hours befor and stay on about that long after the mh go off.
Enjoy!!

 

[accurate]

i have a mh canopy with 2 175 german 10k and 2 40 watt actinics I had mine about 6inches from my glass and the only thing that happened is lots of algae and the glass tops had to be cleaned more often is seemed cause the heat from the light seemed to bake the salt and algae to the glass. Just my exper.
i just moved, reset my tank and now have my mh suspended. i can get to my tank easier w/o having to lift the canopy and worry about lights in the way.. I have the mh on a separate timer than the actinics so the act come on for about 1 1/2 hours befor and stay on about that long after the mh go off.
Enjoy!!

 

[bj]

Are you "mounting your ballasts to the cabinet itself or just laying them inside ?
I also saw something about a "new" E ballast for the hallides. Cooler running temp and lower amp draw.
Anybody have those yet ????

 

[reefcrazy]

i have 2 175mh 10k plus. the plus is a blue light that this bulbs put out i also have 3 40w no bulbs two atinics and one 18k daylight. on my 72g bow that is about 20in deep. i have a home made canopy that i made my self and the bulbs are 12in high from the water, i don't use a glass top. i'm tinking about removing the no bulbs and adding two 110 vho or two 96w pc. any one with any suggestions let me know.

 

[ironreef]

depends on what you keep. 250w in a 30" tank I would have at leasts. But your canopy is only 6" I wouldn't keep my light that close. I would have them at least 5"+ away from the water. By the time you have reflectors and the bulb it will be closer.Allow 4" for bulb which put your lights @2" to close . So if you want halides you will need a taller canopy and fans are always good especially for summer. If you keep you canopy I would use 4 110w vho Ice cap 660. But if you want sps and clams I would get another canopy and get at least 250w. If you aren't using any vho with the 250w then you won't want 6.5k which has the most par. i would opt for 400w 20k which look good without actinic. But if heat and power bill is an issue 250w 10k is okay but you still may want to suppliment with at least no lighting actinic

 

[adrian]

Like mentioned above, it really depends on what kinds of corals you want to keep, 250s would be enough for most corals, like mentioned above you could get good results even with only 175s, but I would suggest at least the 250s which will give you a wider range of choices as far as coral. I have my halides all mounted about 4" off the surface, as far as heat I dont have a problem, I have fans on the sump and in the canopy and I dont use glass covers, but Im starting to think that the light would be have a better spread if the bulbs were mounted about 8" off the surface. Which brings us to your hood, you have the same problem as I This coming week Ill be replacing the 2 175s and 1 250 over my 75 gallon with 2 400s. In order to elevate the new 400s Ill be adding sides to the canopy, these sides will add about 8"-10" height to the canopy which will not only elevate the lights, but will also allow more room to get into the tank and much better air circulation since the front and back will have will be open. So dont feel as your hood will limit you to florescents, you can always madify it, or if possible hang it from the ceiling. Keep in mind lighting is one of those areas you want to put as much thought as possible into, its expensive, but its twice as expensive when you buy it twice Do you know what types of corals you are interested in? HTH

 

[bj]

No I am not sure on which types of corals I will eventually go with BUT, I know I do not want to spend $450 - $550 now, and find out a year from now that I SHOULD have spent $600 or 700 and done it right the 1st time. Thats why I am trying to be careful. I have figured out that based on the feedback from this site that I need a taller canopy so I can get the fans in. I just hate getting all of these different answers from the light dealers. I stopped listening to "most" of the LFS' long ago. But you guys are helping so please keep it coming !!!

 

[wastedincome420]

Hey Bj
Don't feel bad. I'm in the same boat. I bought a used Oceanic 105g setup with matching hood and stand bout 4-5 months ago and still don't have it running yet because I'm trying to wait and do it ALL right the first time. I run in to same questions/problems as you when it come to adding MH to my hood. The "stock" Oceanic hood is only 6" tall(it currently has 4 48" VHO bulbs w/2 IceCap 660's), well after getting feed back bout hoe high to mount MH's, my plan is to make a additional hood to mount the MH's and place it "on-top" of the stock hood, add a hinge to the back and I think it'll make for a nice hood.
Take a look at "Mr.Salty"'s web-site my plan is close to his, but the center will taller then the rest to mount the MH's and reflecter.
Well I hope that you can make some sense of this
Good luck
Wastedincome420

 

[bj]

Hey Adrian, what are you going to do with your old 175 hallides and the 250 ? Want to sell them ?

 

[adrian]

If only all new reefers had the patience yall have, its a great thing that yall are taking the time to research everything and "do it right the first time" My old 175s are going to be mounted on soft coral propagation tanks, and the 250 will be used on a Montipora tank, I could use the extra $, but I would only end up replacing them all in a years time Have you looked into PFO? They make about the best retro fit kit out there and their prices aint bad either. There are also some DIY plans on the web, one entilted make your own MH for $100. I ve done a few DYI haldies, but these days I prefer to spend a little extra on a retro kit. Lighting is going to be expensive no matter how you do it, but it dosnt have to cost a ton, I just bought all new lights for my 75 including an electronic VHO kit with bulbs, and 2 400 watt 65K MH with reflectors for less than $500 By the way Im about to go outside and stain my "canopy upgrade", it came out really nice, and it cost me about $10 and took a half an hour to put together, beats buying a new hood, Ill post some pics when its installed.

 

[bj]

For anyone who hasn't taken the time to look at Adrian's tank - you should do that - its well worth the time.

 

[bj]

Question - Can you buy the Electronic ballasts from a lighting store and use them on the hallides ? The temp difference seems to justify the extra expense - but if an electronic ballast is not going into the cabinet or the canopy itself - lets say the basement - then why would it have to be special made for saltwater ? Assumming same output and everything else ?

 

[adrian]

As long as the ballast will run the bulbs, although there are not that many electronic ballasts available for MH. Ive never had an issue using tar ballasts to run MH, VHO on the other hand is different, you can burn your hand on my VHO tar ballast, and the bulbs run almost as hot as the halides which is why im replacing it with an electronic ballast. From what Ive heard the e-ballast is the best choice for halides if you want to use an electronic ballast. HTH

 

[lilmojo79]

I have a DIY 250 watt Metal Halide running on my 65 gallon right now. It was about $80-$100 and only took probably 2 hours max to make it. I put the ballast and capacitor(I hope that is how it is spelled)in a metal electrical box. It sits on top of my hood. Anyone can make one of these with novice electrical skills, I chose to make one because I am a student and cannot afford to spend $300 on a PFO ballast. It has been running 8-10 hours a day for about two weeks with no problems. I don't have any heat problems from it, and I don't even use a fan. The bulb is approximately 11 inches from the surface of the water so the distance probably helps a ton. I am going to add a fan before summer just in case the summer heat causes problems.

 

[ironreef]

PFO ballast is @$165?? Somewhere there. its a retro= reflector,socket,a bulb6.5k??, and wired ballast. PFO ballast you can get @$80. They are fair prices. Halides electronic isn't perfected you won't save much if any. Depends on the bulbs most magnetic runs more effiecent per Sanjays lighting test. Electronic voh Icecap is the only way to go

 

[bj]

Is there any kind of distance from the bulb considerations for where the ballasts (regardless of type) can be away from the bulb and still generate the current necessary to start the bulbs ? I wish to mount the ballasts (likely PFO's -thanks to Ironreef) in my basement directly underneath my tank. Total distance probally less than 15' ????
On another note I really want to thank all of you for the responses, its been a great help. This is a rather large investment and it helps to get unbiased input.