Need Help w/Snail Poop & Vac. Sand

[tirtza]

Hello! I have 1 large Mexican Turbo Snail that eats A LOT (it does an excellent job keeping the rocks very clean! Unfortunately it also poops A LOT! The droppings look like little black mouse turds. It could be from one of the other creatures in the tank, however the only other things in the tank are 3 large hermit crabs, a Lawn Mower Blenny, and 2 clown fish. Is it possible the droppings are from one of them and not the Mexican Turbo?
Most importantly how do I get rid of those droppings?
Is there something that will eat them that I can add to my clean up crew?
I'm new to saltwater, however in the past I have had freshwater tanks. I never had a problem vacuuming gravel, but I'm having a lot of difficulties vacuuming the sand. First of all, I keep sucking up lots of sand every time I try to vacuum it. Second, the snail (or what ever type it is) poop doesn't get sucked up all that much when I try to vacuum it up. I seem to only move the sand around and end up burying the poop. What should I do!?!
I would greatly ANY advice anyone can provide! Thank you so much!

 

[btldreef]

Sounds like blenny poop. You can siphon them with a turkey baster. What it really sounds like, is that you need more snails/hermits/shrimp/clean up crew.

 

[xcali1985]

Im general I believe algae eater have bigger stools. I wouldn't be worried about that. Mine usually breaks up with flow as they do their business. I agree with BTL that it's simply a clean up crew size issue.
What size tank is it ? How much live rock? How many inches of sand? Provide these details and we can assist on letting you know the correct amounts you should have.
Also I don't think I have ever seen my snails "poop"

 

[tirtza]

It's a 29 gallon Oceanic BioCube (a couple of modifications to the filtration were the addition of a protein skimmer, a bag of Purigen, a bag of Chemi-Pure Elite) I have great water quality. ph at 8.2, Ammonia at 0, Nitrite at 0, and Nitrate between 0-5. I test the water every other day, including the specific gravity using a refractometer. I keep the salinity at 1.025 and the temp. at 79-80 degrees using a digital thermometer. The lights are on a timers, scheduled to turn on the Actinic Blue Florescent lights on at 3 pm - 10 pm, and the white fluorescent lights on at 4 pm - 9pm. The total time for lights = 7 hours per day. The LED moonlights are on all night as well.
The CUC consists of 3 large Scarlett Hermit crabs, a Mexican Turbo snail, and 2 small Nassarius snails. There's also a 'mystery' hermit crab (I'm not sure what type?)
What would you suggest I add to the CUC?
I'm considering (in order of preference)
- 1 Serpent Star Fish, I really like the idea that they are such "tremendous scavengers" (I don't know if this includes LMB droppings though?)
OR
- 1 or 2 Peppermint Shrimp (I've read they are 'Coral Safe', however I've also seen threads on SWF where people have had problems with them eating their coral, I don't have coral right now but I'd like to add some when the tank is more mature)
OR
- 1 Cleaner Shrimp (although these seem to be more interested in cleaning the fish as opposed to the actual aquarium) It could be useful though!
So what do you all think? Ideas, comments, and suggestions are truly appreciated!!

 

[tirtza]

I'm not quite sure how much live rock, and the sand bed depth depends on the area. Here's a few pictures of the aquarium (it's only 2 1/2 months old).

 

[btldreef]

For your size tank, this is what I'd have for a CUC:
2 Skunk Cleaner shrimp or 1 Fire Shrimp
1 peppermint shrimp (2 if I did the 1 fire shrimp)
7 Nassarius snails
5-7 Astrea snails (or just all Trochus snails)
5-7 Trochus snails
3 scarlet hermits (since you already have some in there)
5 cerith snails (or 3 more nassarius snails)
Add slowly and see how things go. Your tank is new, so don't add all the CUC at once.
edit: We were talking about your blenny in another thread, this shot definitely makes him look like he's thin

 

[xcali1985]

Time for some algae sheets. At least every other day.

 

[flower]

Large hermits are a problem. You should not be vacuuming sand, Nassarius snails will keep the sand nice but the hermits kill snails. My peppermint shrimp never bothered a thing.

 

[tirtza]

I am so glad to hear that I shouldn't be vacuuming the sand! Thank you so much Flower!

I thought it seemed strange when I read that I should 'vaccum the sand', especially since it's live sand and vacuuming seems like it would mess with the bio-filtration and damage all of the good stuff that's living in it. I've only tried vacuuming the sand twice (once last week and once about a month ago) and both times I thought it was a bad decision. Luckily my actions didn't mess with the bio-filtration!
It's shame that large hermits are a problem, those 3 are really entertaining. I only have three fish in the aquarium (one LMB and two clowns), but I find myself looking to see what kind of antics my crabs are up to. The LMB likes to occasionally sit on top of them and take bites of algae off the shells. I have lots of extra shells in there for the Scarlett's, and they haven't messed with my Mexican Turbo. How are large hermits a problem? I thought they were reef safe etc..??
I'm certainly getting some algae sheets today, thanks for all of the fantastic advice!

 

[xcali1985]

Hmmm.... While its 100% true you should not vacuum a deep sand bed. I however, am a firm believer that you should vacuum shallow beds at least once every other month. The main reason you don't vacuum a deep sand bed is to not disturb the nitrogen cycle, because it needs a oxygen free environment to complete the process.
With a shallow sand bed the presence of oxygen is there, preventing this process from taking place... I have always vacuum my sand bed as it is only 1.5" plus I love the white sand look.Some people simply stir there sand beds which I do once a month.
Everything in my tank seems to be healthy and thriving.
I would also vacuum a deep sand bed before a tank move also. It's going to get stirred up anyways. When I moved my tank. I vacuumed the sand bed every other week the month before and again when I moved the tank. It still had a diatom bloom and mini-cycle. I can only imagine what it would have been if I didn't clean it.
I'm pretty sure never vacuuming your sand leads to old tank syndrome also.
Anyways, to each his own... There is no one way to run a tank....
Thoughts...

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tirtza http:///t/388343/need-help-w-snail-poop-vac-sand#post_3424819
I am so glad to hear that I shouldn't be vacuuming the sand! Thank you so much Flower!

I thought it seemed strange when I read that I should 'vaccum the sand', especially since it's live sand and vacuuming seems like it would mess with the bio-filtration and damage all of the good stuff that's living in it. I've only tried vacuuming the sand twice (once last week and once about a month ago) and both times I thought it was a bad decision. Luckily my actions didn't mess with the bio-filtration!
It's shame that large hermits are a problem, those 3 are really entertaining. I only have three fish in the aquarium (one LMB and two clowns), but I find myself looking to see what kind of antics my crabs are up to. The LMB likes to occasionally sit on top of them and take bites of algae off the shells. I have lots of extra shells in there for the Scarlett's, and they haven't messed with my Mexican Turbo. How are large hermits a problem? I thought they were reef safe etc..??
I'm certainly getting some algae sheets today, thanks for all of the fantastic advice!

LOL...not vacuuming the sand and not cleaning off rocks was the main attraction to saltwater tanks for me, the SW critters actually do their job.
Large hermits and regular hermits crabs are different critters, I imagine the larger the shell the bigger the hermit can grow. So I suppose it's a matter of just how big are we talking about here?

 

[btldreef]

Hmmm.... While its 100% true you should not vacuum a deep sand bed. I however, am a firm believer that you should vacuum shallow beds at least once every other month. The main reason you don't vacuum a deep sand bed is to not disturb the nitrogen cycle, because it needs a oxygen free environment to complete the process.

With a shallow sand bed the presence of oxygen is there, preventing this process from taking place... I have always vacuum my sand bed as it is only 1.5" plus I love the white sand look.Some people simply stir there sand beds which I do once a month.

Everything in my tank seems to be healthy and thriving.

I would also vacuum a deep sand bed before a tank move also. It's going to get stirred up anyways. When I moved my tank. I vacuumed the sand bed every other week the month before and again when I moved the tank. It still had a diatom bloom and mini-cycle. I can only imagine what it would have been if I didn't clean it.

I'm pretty sure never vacuuming your sand leads to old tank syndrome also.

Anyways, to each his own... There is no one way to run a tank....

Thoughts...
I occasionally stir my shallow sand beds, really only the top layer though. But I have a ton of nassarius snails, which really help keep it clean. Anything that is deeper than 4", I leave alone.

 

[tirtza]

My sand bed is about 1.5 -2 inches (more shallow in some parts and less shallow in other parts), there is strong water current that moves the sand around and creates natural rises and dips in the sand. I'll start stirring the sand around once a month as was suggested plus add some more Nassarius to my CUC.
Flower - The Scarlett Hermits (or at least the shells they live in) are about 2" long. Is this size considered 'large'? They are all 3 currently exploring and trying to move into the new/bigger shells that I just put in there yesterday.
BTLDreef - Thank you sooooooo much for your advice on the CUC!

I'm certainly going to follow it just as you had prescribed

• 
  I am very slowly adding the CUC.
• 
  I purchased 3 more Nassarius snails today (two small 'pea size' and one 'dime size'), the guy at the LFS said that there are actually different types of Nassarius snails...is this accurate?
• 
  I also purchased 2 Peppermint Shrimp (I know you suggested only one, however I read "They are also easy to breed, getting 2 peppermint shrimp is an automatic match and they'll have baby larvae which feeds the corals in the tank". (Premium Aquatics Website) It's not that I necessarily want more Peppermint shrimp, but I thought the baby larvae would be a great treat from my fish and eventually coral.
  My CUC now consists of 1 Mexican Turbo Snail, 5 Nassarius Snail, 2 Peppermint Shrimp
  I still plan on getting the two Skunk Shrimp you suggested but they seem kind of pricey and so I think I should a wait a bit. There weren't any Skunk Shrimp on SWF.com and at Premium Aquatics website they were $19 each. At my LFS they were $39.99 each!! As much as I love to support my LFS (even though the prices are always more costly (sometimes waaaay more costly), I think I'll definitely have to order them from a website when I get them.

Xcali1985 - I just got some algae sheets for my LMB today. I'm going to try and anchor a square inch between a couple of rocks and see how it works out. Hopefully he'll easily find it and eat to his little hearts content.
I've also added my 4th fish

It's a Fire Fish, and I'm sure I over paid for this guy as well ($17.99 vs $11.99 at SWF.com) I know I should support my LFS (because it's really good one, and all of the guys that work there are very helpful), I just wish their prices were a little more consumer friendly...lol
Thanks everyone for your help and advice, I don't know what I'd do without you! If you have any more suggestions or advice please feel free to PM me or add to the thread! Ya'll are the best help a newbie could possibly get!

 

[xcali1985]

When I had a LMB I would tie down about a 2" x 3" algae sheet to a rock and let him go to town. By the end of the day it was gone. My wrasse played a part in that also. The mystery wrasse seems to love to eat it also.

 

[reeferchief]

I have super fine sand in mine. When I do water changes I blow all the crap off the rocks and some gets siphoned up while the rest falls in the sand. At the end I stick the hose toward the sand and if you are already draining water you just hold the hose about an inch off the sand and it should suck up all the crap sitting on the top layer of sand without sucking too much sand up. Works pretty well for me and if you suck up too much sand (which I have) I usually siphon water from display tank into buckets. This way any sand sucked up is not lost you can jsut scoop out of the bucket and back into tank, minus the crap!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reeferchief http:///t/388343/need-help-w-snail-poop-vac-sand#post_3425091
I have super fine sand in mine. When I do water changes I blow all the crap off the rocks and some gets siphoned up while the rest falls in the sand. At the end I stick the hose toward the sand and if you are already draining water you just hold the hose about an inch off the sand and it should suck up all the crap sitting on the top layer of sand without sucking too much sand up. Works pretty well for me and if you suck up too much sand (which I have) I usually siphon water from display tank into buckets. This way any sand sucked up is not lost you can jsut scoop out of the bucket and back into tank, minus the crap!
Hi there,
That "crap" is coral food, and good for the tank and the CUC feeds on it. If you had your power heads adjusted correctly you wouldn't be building up enough "crap" to blow off the rocks and land in the sand. How big is your tank and how many power heads do you have running? You should not have to siphon sand ever. Crushed coral is another issue, that acts a great deal like gravel and sometimes needs to be cleaned.

 

[tirtza]

Thanks for the tip Flower, It's possible the 'Output Discharge Nozzle' isn't adjusted correctly. I can easily move it up or down, what direction should it be pointing (towards the middle of the water column, bottom, or top?) The water pump (this is what you mean by 'power head' correct?) is the one that came standard with the Oceanic BioCube 29 G. the pump flow rate is 243 gph (920 L/H)
I also have a protien skimmer in the tank as well. I most certainly won't be siphoning any more sand! It's wonderful to know that I don't have to, because it really was a hassle and such a mess!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tirtza http:///t/388343/need-help-w-snail-poop-vac-sand#post_3425239
Thanks for the tip Flower, It's possible the 'Output Discharge Nozzle' isn't adjusted correctly. I can easily move it up or down, what direction should it be pointing (towards the middle of the water column, bottom, or top?) The water pump (this is what you mean by 'power head' correct?) is the one that came standard with the Oceanic BioCube 29 G. the pump flow rate is 243 gph (920 L/H)
I also have a protien skimmer in the tank as well. I most certainly won't be siphoning any more sand! It's wonderful to know that I don't have to, because it really was a hassle and such a mess!
I'm not familiar with the biocube. A power head is a gadget that you attach to the wall of your tank and it draws water in and pushes it back out creating circulation. It isn't a part of the filter output.

 

[tirtza]

Okay...here I was thinking I finally had somewhat of a handle on things and then wham!...I realize there is a really important piece of equipment I haven't been using!! When you mentioned the term 'power head', I honestly thought you meant the pump that's part of the filtration.
After some reading/research I finally understand what a power head is, and why they are used. I even learned where I should place one (on the opposite side of the return) in my aquarium. I also learned that I need one that is 15 - 20 times the volume of my tank. My tank is a 29 gallon (but I should take into consideration water displacement from the rock and sand that's in there).
I read a bunch of posts and it seems like a VorTech would be the best option (but it's waaaaay out of my price range) so I'm thinking of going with a Hydor Koralia 425. What do you think? Does anyone have any other suggestions or thoughts on this?
Ps. Why such a huge price difference in the vortech and koralia??

 

[reeferchief]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/388343/need-help-w-snail-poop-vac-sand#post_3425204
Hi there,
That "crap" is coral food, and good for the tank and the CUC feeds on it. If you had your power heads adjusted correctly you wouldn't be building up enough "crap" to blow off the rocks and land in the sand. How big is your tank and how many power heads do you have running? You should not have to siphon sand ever. Crushed coral is another issue, that acts a great deal like gravel and sometimes needs to be cleaned.
My tank is a 65G 3' long....unfortunately I only have one power head at the moment that is about, just lower than middle of the tank angled off the front glass and blowing toward the opposite side of the tank... I need to get another powerhead...