Need some help

[flower]

Long story short for those who don’t know already:
My heater broke in half and shocked the tank, all my coral are dead and I am trying to save what is left…
I am worried about an ammonia spike from die off. I have a solution, but want to run it buy you guys.
Looks like my fish survived the electrocution, I don’t see any movement from the hermits at all and my shrimp are missing. I did spot the fire shrimp briefly. I found one serpent star dead. So die off is going to be from the rock critters and the now dead or dying CUC.
Will this work?
I have two 37g plastic garbage cans (FISH ONLY) I use them for water changes, I can put my rock in there and let it cure from die off. But that leaves my main tank with no rock. I can provide my fish places to hide with PVC pipe. If there is nothing left in the tank except the sand and fish do you think it will help them or do more harm? Without the rock the natural filtration will be gone, I have two canister filters running, and a skimmer that spits out micro bubbles. I have 4 power heads, I would have to put two in the tubs with the rock. I will use tap water for the tubs w/ rock I don't have enough time to gather enough RO from my unit.
While I am at it, let me ask…I have never had to cure rock before, I bought each piece locally already cured…how long would I have to let it sit in a tub to clear it of death?
Any advice is welcome, I really want to save the fish. They are eating but fearful and hiding in the rocks.

• Blue Hippo Tang
• Blue Spotted Kole Tang
• Lemonpeel Angelfish
  Fridmani Dottyback
  Golden Headed Sleeper Goby (sand must remain for him to live)
  2 Perc Clowns

 

[smartorl]

I'm probably wrong but my first thoughts were to move the fish into the trash cans and recycle the tank. I would think that removing the rocks would really trash your water quality by also disturbing the sand and could be more dangerous to the already compromised fish. Again, just my two cents.
If it was me, I think I would remove the old sand, replace with new, replace the rock and just allow it to cycle.
I am really sorry to hear of your losses and hope there are no more to add to the list.

 

[spanko]

Have you tested for ammonia? this I would do daily to see if you are getting spikes.
I would be more inclined to leave everything in the tank and if in fact you do get some spikes in ammonia bind it up with some amquel or like product and perform water changes to remove the bound up ammonia.
Let's see what others say.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by smartorl
http:///forum/post/3258361
I'm probably wrong but my first thoughts were to move the fish into the trash cans and recycle the tank. I would think that removing the rocks would really trash your water quality by also disturbing the sand and could be more dangerous to the already compromised fish. Again, just my two cents.
If it was me, I think I would remove the old sand, replace with new, replace the rock and just allow it to cycle.
I am really sorry to hear of your losses and hope there are no more to add to the list.

Thanks for your help…here is my problem with your suggestion:
There is no way to cycle the tank like you said. I can’t keep my fish in those tubs for that long. Rock yes, fish no. The filtration problems, the constant water changes and add the stress on the fish…So no, I can’t do that.
My sand is well moved around because of the sand sifter, so there is no danger of disturbing that. I mean the sand sifter makes huge mounds and I go and flatten it back out all the time on him. It is only about a two inch sand bed.
I can’t catch the fish without removing the rock anyway. I can’t afford new sand, nor replace all my rock, I don’t have the funds..this is a 90g tank. I can purchase about $100.00 worth of already cured rock from the LFS today…maybe I should do that instead of PVC pipe for the fish until the rest is cured, that would give them some natural filtration…
Again how long does it take for rock to cure?
Please stay with me and help me brain storm…I really need some help here. Just keep bouncing things off until something looks feasible.

 

[luvmyreef]

Flower, I have to agree with henry here. Have you tested for ammonia yet? The only thing I would add to his suggestion would be to remove all dead coral and inverts you find, and get lots of water ready for multiple changes.... Oh, and if there is no ammonia, keep an eye on nitrates and see if they go up...that way you know your bio filtration is intact..

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3258362
Have you tested for ammonia? this I would do daily to see if you are getting spikes.
I would be more inclined to leave everything in the tank and if in fact you do get some spikes in ammonia bind it up with some amquel or like product and perform water changes to remove the bound up ammonia.
Let's see what others say.

That was my first response, but I worried all night at work, I haven’t cried yet but I am close. I tested and yesterday showed .25 from the 0 reading a day earlier. I haven’t tested this morning yet, but I know its coming like a storm.
Amquel isn’t that good, it can’t handle the amount of ammonia I am going to have from dying starfish, snails, hermits and rock dwellers. I won't be able to keep up with that many water changes, it takes days to get enough water for one change.
My hermit crabs, hundreds of them are like frozen in place..they are not moving and haven’t moved from the spot they were in when I went to work last night. It’s weird, they are just hanging there on the side of the rocks and incrvices no twitching legs..nothing, no movement.
The LFS doesn’t open until 10:00 this morning. I want a plan in place when the door opens, then I am going to get busy...

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by luvmyreef
http:///forum/post/3258367
Flower, I have to agree with henry here. Have you tested for ammonia yet? The only thing I would add to his suggestion would be to remove all dead coral and inverts you find, and get lots of water ready for multiple changes.... Oh, and if there is no ammonia, keep an eye on nitrates and see if they go up...that way you know your bio filtration is intact..
Okay, I am going to go test right now...Nitrates won't hurt my fish, they can handle plenty...Be right back.

 

[luvmyreef]

Yeah, I was just looking on the web and found that several recommend stress coat for the fish after this happens. They said that the fish will be shy and hide while it tries to figure out what hurt it. But that most will recover. Not much info on the inverts....did you try to move/pick up any of the crabs? If they are dead, I would get them out of the tank...

 

[flower]

Stress coat, Gotcha! Thank You everyone so much!
Okay Ammonia has begun to raise..1.0
Nitrates are at 20
I saw one Hermit crab actually moving, he was trying to get the shell from his fallen comrade.
There are too many crabs to just reach in and grab a few, the rock blocks me, it must be removed, all the dead coral is attached to it. One little green star polyp is open…one in a sea of closed up colonies all around it. It was not open yesterday.

 

[meowzer]

OH FLOWER....I am sooo sorry for all this...BUT I also have to agree with HENRY (of course) I would be making as much water as you can, and keep some fresh sw made up too......be prepared for w/c's.....I think tearing apart the tank will just cause you more problems....(JMO)

 

[meowzer]

P.S. GET AMQUEL+

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3258379
P.S. GET AMQUEL+

My RO unit makes 3g over night, for a second refill takes almost all day. My LFS sells saltwater…$1.50 a gallon, I have $100.00 I can spend on the tank. Bills are paid, food is bought and there is gas in the tank to get me to work and back. Thank God I don’t smoke so I don’t need anything else till payday two weeks from now.
I can buy cured rock from the LFS. Dead coral is attached to all of my established rock. I fear wasting my money on LFS water, and Amquel, which is good for a small problem but not the massive one I am facing. I think the die off and ammonia spikes are going to be faster than I can fix it.
On a 90g tank my $100.00 is not going to go very far when buying water for $1.50 a gallon.
I could use city tap water, and chlorine remover to make some saltwater up. How much damage can using tap water do? And if I use tap, how hard will it be to rectify the poor water situation after the emergency is past?

 

[meowzer]

3g's overnight? that's not very much......I would keep it churning....LOL....
IDK Flower....I thought you were on well water and it was really BAD......Are you getting the city tap from a friend? If so, have you tested it?

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3258388
3g's overnight? that's not very much......I would keep it churning....LOL....
IDK Flower....I thought you were on well water and it was really BAD......Are you getting the city tap from a friend? If so, have you tested it?

My sister lives nearby with city water.
Walmart has water for .67 a gallon. I have two 37g cans...how big of a water change and how often should I try for?
Henry if you are keeping tabs on this thread:
Do I leave everything just as it is, and just get the Amquel and do the water changes? ...OR... Do I remove as much coral as possible and reach what dead inverts I can to rremove them?...help!

 

[smartorl]

Given the circumstance, I would fully agree with Henry as well. Remove as much of the dead things as possible. I'm not sure how the others feel, but I would probably consider adding to my CUC to aid in the cleanup of those dead ones you can't reach in the rocks, just thinking out loud. That could also put a strain on the bioload, so I don't know.......
I think removing the rocks sounds good in theory but you are going to stir up alot of trouble, literally. There is alot of "stuff" under the rocks and in the sand that will be released into the water column, I think that would just be too much for the fish.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by smartorl
http:///forum/post/3258391
Given the circumstance, I would fully agree with Henry as well. Remove as much of the dead things as possible. I'm not sure how the others feel, but I would probably consider adding to my CUC to aid in the cleanup of those dead ones you can't reach in the rocks, just thinking out loud. That could also put a strain on the bioload, so I don't know.......
I think removing the rocks sounds good in theory but you are going to stir up alot of trouble, literally. There is alot of "stuff" under the rocks and in the sand that will be released into the water column, I think that would just be too much for the fish.

Do I have to remove the dead coral?..the zoa on the rocks are like concrete. To remove the coral means removing the rock anyway. I made two big caves, removing one piece means removing it all.
Oh…I just got finished last week or so removing the rock and rearranging it, to get my Yellow Tonga out of reach of the sand sifting goby dumping sand on it…Also before that I had to get a Huge Green brittle star out because it was eating my shrimp…so the rock has been disturbed not too long ago. It isn’t like it has been sitting undisturbed for years.
I really don’t think removing the rock will do any harm, I just really need to make a decision here. Time is ticking…water is getting ready…the store opens soon.

 

[luvmyreef]

Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3258376

Stress coat, Gotcha! Thank You everyone so much!
Okay Ammonia has begun to raise..1.0
Nitrates are at 20
I saw one Hermit crab actually moving, he was trying to get the shell from his fallen comrade.
There are too many crabs to just reach in and grab a few, the rock blocks me, it must be removed, all the dead coral is attached to it. One little green star polyp is open…one in a sea of closed up colonies all around it. It was not open yesterday.
So, it sounds like some made it! And if one polyp is open, I wouldnt give up on them either. Zoas are hardy flower, I would leave them..Your ammonia spike is probably from the other dead things. Your biofiltration might be able to handle it if you can remove what dead things you can find. And what you cant find, your bristleworms will.... And Instead of buying saltwater, go to walmart and buy distilled water, its cheaper and safer than tap...and I would get a bottle of "cycle" its good bacteria and I think it will help you.just my 2 cents.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by luvmyreef
http:///forum/post/3258395
So, it sounds like some made it! And if one polyp is open, I wouldnt give up on them either. Zoas are hardy flower, I would leave them..Your ammonia spike is probably from the other dead things. Your bioload might be able to handle it if you can remove what dead things you can find. Instead of buying saltwater, go to walmart and buy distilled water, its cheaper and safer than tap...and I would get a bottle of "cycle" its good bacteria and I think it will help you .just my 2 cents.

The cycle sounds like a great idea. I really hope you are right about the corals, my poor sea fan is just a black skeleton, a small corner held on until this morning…now it’s 100% black, so I will not get a frag from it like I had hoped.
The Xenia is disappeared altogether. The GSP pulls off easy..should I leave it too? My leathers (lettuce, cabbage and yellow Tonga) any hope for them, they are giving off a slime..they have to live to be that angry right?

 

[luvmyreef]

I would def. get the sea fan out. You could watch the GSP and see. The leathers are iffy, would watch them too. My guess is that your ammonia is from dead inverts, and some coral. My friends tank crashed after hundreds of little stars died.. I would def. get the bottled "cycle", it can only help. In emergency situations like this, it is very useful. And I have used it for years, with no problems.

 

[beaslbob]

I would leave the lights on 24 hours so the algae can expand to consume any ammonia spike.
I would also add macros to help.
If you do see signs of stress on the fish, I would measure both the total and free ammonia then only treat the tank with ammonia locks for the dangerous free ammonia.
I would them let the tank heal itself.
One good thing is that the fish are not showing signs of distress.
So hopefully things will settle down in a few weeks.
Of course, I would stop using heaters also.
my .02