New additions I had to show off

[rookie]

I was looking up Respiration in the "Aquarium Sharks and Rays" book by Scott Michael. It says and I quote "Check the respiration of the animal, as indicated by opening and closing of its gill slits. If it appears to be respiring very heavily (two to three times the "normal" respiratory rate for that species) it may be suffering from a parasitic infestations of the gills or from oxygen deprivation. Be aware that the animal's respiration rate can be affected by factors unrelated to the animal's overall health, such as water temperature, the presence of food, or a threatening object (e.g. the aquarist's hand).
Hope this helps, if you don't have this book I would recommend it very helpful and full of helpful things.
Nick

 

[ac]

Nick,
I do have the book, and thanks for the info.
Tony,
I am running a UV sterilizer. The pj had a scared eye from the infection, but seemed to be much better. The coral catsharks had no marks. The amazing thing is the small one died within hours of getting her and the large one died overnight. Maybe the stress of moving. Anyway thanks for the help and suggestions.

 

[broncofish]

AC that sucks those sharks were nice. Yes they do make a Copper test you might want to pick one up. It could be coming from pipe fittings in your house, a rock or anything similar. Copper just screams out at me because The eels and your chromis could handle it, but Sharks and inverts would croak. Once again sorry and I hope you figure it out.

 

[ac]

Broncofish,
Would an ro/di unit filter out copper? I use ro/di water on all of my tanks

 

[broncofish]

I would think that the copper would be removed by the DI...test kit goes for about 13-14$ could be worth it just to make sure that copper did not end up in there some how....or check with that LFS see if they have everused copper in the tank that they were keeping those sharks in. Just seems strange those sharks died, and everything else is fine...has me baffled????

 

[turbo21]

from what i read, one the most important things with sharks is your salinity. what do you keep yours at?, and how long did you aclimate them for?

 

[novice150]

AC: Sorry to hear about your losses.
The fact that bonny fish are doing well in your tank makes me think that it's not bacterial. I'm thinking toxic chemicals or some form of electrical problem. I think you mentioned before that the tank is grounded... Is there any metal anything exposed to saltwater though? Hose clamps? Screws? How about submersible pumps? Are you using activated carbon? When is the last time you changed the filters in the RO? Have u ever checked the product water from the RO to ensure it's doing it's job properly? You mentioned rock... What kind of rock is in the tank? LR, base, lava? Is there adequate fresh air around/in the sump area? I'm assuming the top of your tank is closed (sealed) so just wondering if oxygen deprivation could be an issue. What specifically are your water parameters? Could you have a faulty test kit?
Sorry for all the questions... I'm just hoping we can help you get to the bottom of this. I also think a copper test kit is a good idea.

 

[ac]

Novice150,
The return pump, uv, and skimmer are all in the sump. There is also a metal heater. I just changed ro/di filters before I filled this tank up. I am not using carbon. There is not much rock in the tank. There's a couple of old LR pieces and a couple lava based. I have a copper test on the way, I should get it tomorrow. I really think oxygen depravation is the answer. My return pump is way undersized(new one tomorrow) and I just had a good size cyno outbreak in the sand. From what I've read cyno can deplete oxygen. The symptoms of the sharks were very labored breathing. I think the chomis are doing ok because they typically swim towards the top of the tank. I put a power head in to mix some air and the eel seems to be breathing easier since I did that. So I think I've narrowed it down. First I want to eliminate the copper question. Then I'm installing a new 3 fold bigger return pump. The water parameters: amonia 0, Nitrate was the lowest number on the scale above zero(I'm at work and don't recall the exact number) Ph 8.3, salinity was 1.022. I think the test kit is ok. I hope that answered your questions novice, I appreciate the help.

 

[novice150]

AC: Here are a few more thoughts...
I realize you know a thing or two about sharks, so I wont get into the whole electroreception issue. However, I personally believe that allowing any metallic object to come into contact with the salt water, could cause problems. This is especially true when keeping sharks. In addition to metallic objects, any type of electronic device which is submerged in water, could potentially be an issue.
If it were my tank, I would at the very least remove the metal (titanium I suspect) heater. I would even take it one step further, by moving the pump and UV out of the water. You mentioned that you had grounded the tank... May I ask how you went about this?
I'm still curious about the air flow in your sump area. Is there any type of fan to bring fresh air in? I feel this could exaggerate to the oxygen deprivation issue, even with the upgraded turn over rate. What is your weekly evaporation rate like? How about temp?
My final advice, would be to remove the lava rock (I've just never trusted it) and do a large water change in addition to all/any of the other modifications you make.
HTH

 

[saltfisher]

Sorry about your loss!!!! How did you acclimate them? I lost a baby leopard due to not acclimating right. My water was fine, too.

 

[ac]

Novice150,
I have a grounding probe in the sump. There is no fan in the sump area for fresh air, its quite a large area with the back open. But a fan would be an easy addition. I have a euro-reef 8-3 skimmer in the sump. The temp is a little high about 80 degrees, which I know doesn't help the oxygen content of the water. I'm hoping to test the copper tonight if the test kit arrives today and eliminate that possibility. Unfortunately moving pumps out of the sump would require a complete redesign of the systems plumbing, so I'll consider that as a last resort. There is very little evaporation, about 2 gallons a week, the tank is a tenecor and has pretty tight covers. I'm still leaning towards and oxygen problem considering how fast the sharks died. How do you heat your tank if you don't have a heater in the water? With the size of the tank most heaters of the needed wattage are metal. Again thanks for the ideas and suggestions.

 

[ac]

Saltfisher,
I aclilmated them over a 45 minute time span. I brought them home in a bucket and slowly added tank water then netted them into the tank after the 45 minutes. Thanks for the ideas and condolences

 

[grouperhead]

AC, have you talked to the lfs about this? Bo

 

[ac]

Bo,
Actually the only thing I've discussed with them is the use of copper in their tanks. I guess I feel this is my screw up. I can't tell you how bad I feel about losing these two beautiful animals. The money sucks too, but I didn't get into saltwater to save money as I'm sure you and everyone else in this obsession knows.

 

[novice150]

AC: Is the grounding probe by chance made of metal too? The reason I asked about the evaporation, is that the lower the evap, and more temp the water retains, the less the water is being oxygenated. Simply put, if the water is not evaporating out, then not much air is getting in. Just for reference, my 150 evaps around 5-6 gal per week. Maybe you could try leaving the doors on your stand open, and see what affect that has on temp and evap.
To be honest, I don't use heaters on any of my tanks. I am by no means saying this is the only way to go. But it has worked well for me. We did at one point use two glass heaters on my parents 300, but took those out as well. They kept getting stuck in the "on" position and over heating the tank.
If you feel better using a heater, I would suggest using a few glass heaters over a metal one. Even titanium is not impervious to salt water, and will eventually break down.

 

[ac]

Again, Thanks to everyone who has helped me with this. I feel pretty confident I'll get to the bottom of this with some adjustments to my system. Thanks for all of the support and hopefully in the not to distant future I can show you some healthy sharks swiming in the tank.

 

[nicky1.8t]

nice my bro just picked up a shark i think its the same as yours its very cool

 

[reeferdude]

Did you use RO to mix your saltwater? I know in my town the tap water is filled with copper and even taking out all the chlorine wont kill the copper.

 

[ac]

Reeferdude,
Yes I use ro/di water for all of my tanks. Thanks for the idea. I just got home and I'm installing a new return pump 3 fold larger than my original pump. I guess I didn't realize how undersized the original pump was. I'm also going to test for copper in case there's some other source. I do have one question, if you do find copper and eliminate the source how do you get rid of what's in the tank?

 

[ac]

Just an update, the test for copper came out zero.