New (well almost) 29 gal FOWLR - also need advice please.

keimaxbode

New Member
Hello,
I'm new to saltwater and after reading through forum have realized that I've already made quite a few mistakes by listening to my LFS. I purchased my 29 g used and am on a limited budget, which indicates my first mistake, thinking I could do this on a limited budget.

I set up my tank, based on LFS advice, with:
20lbs of live sand (was very fine and took days for water to clear)
added 15 lbs of the coarser type (not live) to help settle the fine stuff
11.5 lbs of live rock purchased initially for set-up - was told could add the rest of the 30lbs along the way (with base rock which is not as expensive and would become "live".
30 gal Aqua Clear filter (sounds like that should have been a 60 gal)

28 gal of pre-mixed RO saltwater from LFS
2 gal of RO freshwater for top-offs from LFS
Aqueon 150 Heater
Magnetic plastic thermometer (not the stick on kind)
Tank came with standard light fixture and stand.
End of 1st week, was advised to add:
Cleaner Shrimp
pair of Clowns
Hermit Crabs (only got 4)
End of 2nd week, was advised could add 3 fish and more CUC:
pair of Banggai Cardinals
Coral Beauty Angel
5 Bumble Bee Snails (that's what LFS called them)
4 Sand Sifting Snails
Sounds like I need more CUC but not sure what combination or how much more is needed
. Was wondering if the recharge reef pkg being offered here would be enough to go with what I already have?
End of 4th week added:
Raccoon Butterfly - mistake for my tank size
was not told I shouldn't purchase and information posted on tanks did not indicate for what size tank, only indicated hardiness and compatibility unless I wasn't reading correctly so am sure I'm overstocked now and Butterfly will be unhappy and probably unhealthy living in my tank.

Did 20% water change with premixed RO saltwater from LFS
Replaced carbon in filter with Chemi-Pure unit (advised by LFS and is crammed in my filter so am concerned about the fit as well since it says the bag cannot be split - looks like I should have purchased the 1/2 unit but this was what LFS said I needed and said it was for 5-55 g tank so it made sense until I opened it and tried to fit it in my filter - LFS also knew what filter I had).
LFS has been testing my water weekly and making the above recs based on the results of those tests - I know I need to buy my own test kits asap (Seachem seems to be the most recommended here I think).
So far, everything is still alive and everyone is getting along fine, which is probably a miracle considering all of the mistakes I've made. Need advice on where to go from here other than not listening to anyone at LFS.
LFS does not take returns so not sure what to do about the Butterfly.
Limited budget so also need advice on what priority should be:
Additional CUC
Additional Rock
Another filter or power head to increase water flow.
Water test kits (but can continue to have LFS test if other items should take priority right now)
QT
Sump
Skimmer
I can only afford to spend about $50 right now so I need to determine where best to spend the money at this point.
I would be extremely grateful for any feedback so I can hopefully avoid making further mistakes. I'm so glad there are so many here willing to share their expertise!
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
Welcome to the site...
whoa that's WAY more then you should have added to the tank in the first place...
did it get to cycle yet? (when the ammonia first spikes, then the nitrite, then the nitrates)
 

keimaxbode

New Member
Well, I'm learning that now. I was following instructions given by an LFS staff, who I was told had a lot of experience with saltwater and was a perfectionist so if anything would advise on the safer side. Since I don't have my own test kits, don't know when the ammonia spiked, but wouldn't think this guy would have advised to get more fish if he didn't think it had finished the first cycle because they have a 10 day guarantee and would have had to replace any fish that died. Sorry, I'm so confused now.
 

travelerjp98

Active Member
No problem... that's why these forums exist!
In your case, I would slow things down *a lot*.
Right now, go out and get some test kits, as mentioned most recommend seachem... and monitor your tank for 2 weeks and don't get anything in that time frame...
pics are what we live for on these forums... just sayin' lol..
 

keimaxbode

New Member
Thank you again. I will post pics next. Is this the test kit I should purchase? (now let's see if I can get a picture posted). Yeah! I think that worked.
I will also post past results of water tests done by LFS. I will try to get out there today to have checked again and to check their prices on this test kit if it is the right one.
 

meowzer

Moderator
get the api master test kit.....it is your basic kit..all you need for right now and $15 less
 

scott t

Active Member
The best advice right now is to go to the new Hobbyist section of the forum and read the top things there that are in the shaded area. Then when you have a list of all your questions that you have from that, come back and ask them. Yes, you should have your own test kits, and you should also have a refractometer to measure the SG (or salt level) level in your tank. The initial cycle of a SW tank can take anywhere from 4 to 6 weeks depending on how you cycled it. There is no way that you should have been adding fish to your tank after one week, but you were advised to do that by a store that only wants your money. You should never trust what a LFS says because most are out to make a buck, thats all they want from you is your money. They dont have your interest or the live critters interest when they are trying to sell you something to move it out of their store. The other thing that you should do is research and ask questions before you add anything more to your tank, because that limited budget that you have is going to only get smaller if you keep going down the road you are now. I can tell you that it took me 2 years of research and buying stuff here and there to get my 75g tank up and running, which it is going thru it cycle now. The other suggestion is to get a QT going it can be as small as a 10g, a 20g would be better. If any of your fish get sick you will not be able to treat them in the DT. The first thing I did was set up a QT 29g tank, because I wanted to make sure that I did not introduce anything parasites or illness into my DT. In the QT you can observe the fish for a min of 2 weeks 4 to 6 weeks would be the best to leave them in the QT. Research QT in the new Hobbyist section to learn how to set one up. Then the best thing to do is ASK ASK ASK, if you dont understand something.
Good Luck HTH,
Scott
 

keimaxbode

New Member
Here are the water test results from LFS:
6/29 - set up on 6/26 (after test, added pair clowns, shrimp, CUC per LFS - acclim 1 hr)
Ammonia=0
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
Alkalinity=180
pH=7.8
temp=78
7/6 (added pair of Banggai Cardinals & Coral Beauty per LFS - acclim 1 hr)
Ammonia=0.20 was this the start of the spike that continued through next week?
Nitrate=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrite=0
Alk=170
pH=7.8
temp=78
7/14
Am=0.30 spike?
Nitrate=20
Nitrite=0
Alk=120
pH=7.0
temp=78
7/17
Am=0
Nitrate=5
Nitrite=0
Alk=100
pH=7.0 (added pH buffer)
temp=78
7/20 (added Raccoon Butterfly per LFS but different staff - extended acclim to 3 hrs after reading info on forum and finding out shouldn't have added him to my tank size - LFS would not let me return - said they had to stop doing that per corp "Jack's")
Is this the completion of the 1st cycle???
Am=0
Nitrate=0
Nitrites=0
Alk=240
pH=8.4 (after treating with pH buffer)
temp=78
7/25 (probably overfed during prior week due to Butterfly not wanting to eat)
Am=0
Nitrate=20
Nitrite=.5
Alk=160
pH=7.0 (
started treating again with buffer)
temp=78
7/27 (was told not to be concerned about results as tank was still new and no corals)
Am=.50
Nitrate=20
Nitrite=1.0
Alk=300
pH=7.9 (still treating)
temp=78
8/2 (after 1st 20% RO premixed saltwater change on 7/29 - was again told not to be concerned, purchased Chemi-Pure to replace carbon in Aqua Clear 30 gal filter - was really too big for filter but finally got everything stuffed in but not sure if this will cause filter to not operate properly???? - water is clear - also rinsed filter tubing to increase water flow)
Am=0.15
Nitrate=10
Nitrite=1.0
Alk=240
pH=8.0
temp=78
Still trying to work out feeding X's and qty. Am alternating the following:
San Francisco Bay Frozen Mysis, Angel & Butterfly, Seaweed and 2-3 x/wk Brine soaked in garlic (per LFS) Also occasionally give Hikari micro wafers and every night break up a Hikari algae wafer that floats to bottom of tank. Originally was feeding Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef Flakes also but think one clown got swim bladder from eating this off of water surface and gulping air so have stopped feeding that, may mix some in the Brine/garlic next time. Clown doing much better although still sometimes floats at surface usually at night (sleeping??? thought he was dying when he first started doing this
), but swims normally otherwise and eats good - no other issues, no bloating. Other, larger clown swims all over tank. Could the smaller clown be wanting to be hosted? Have been thinking about adding a mushroom per forum on different thread but won't add anything now per your advice. I had put in a rubber ball with tendril like things per another thread I found - should I take that out?
Welcome all feedback. Glad I asked about priority as I would not have thought should buy test kit before some of the other things since I can test at LFS so thanks for that piece of wisdom.
Will post pics next. Should I do that in this thread or somewhere else?
 

meowzer

Moderator
You know, I almost feel like telling you to start over :( first of all get rid of the butterfly and the coral beauty....they need bigger and more established tanks
in a 29G..your 2 clowns and 2 banggais are it....you really do not need to add anymore fish......BUT until you get your water parameters straight you might just need to get rid of them too
Your lfs is really giving you bad advice.....Have you read the top threads in the new hobbyist section? if not read them now, and you will see where they steered you wrong on a lot of stuff.
do you have a picture of your system?
 

scott t

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/387185/new-well-almost-29-gal-fowlr-also-need-advice-please#post_3404784
You know, I almost feel like telling you to start over :( first of all get rid of the butterfly and the coral beauty....they need bigger and more established tanks
in a 29G..your 2 clowns and 2 banggais are it....you really do not need to add anymore fish......BUT until you get your water parameters straight you might just need to get rid of them too
Your lfs is really giving you bad advice.....Have you read the top threads in the new hobbyist section? if not read them now, and you will see where they steered you wrong on a lot of stuff.
do you have a picture of your system?
+1 Meowzer, I am so glad that I found this site before I started anything. LFS give so much bad advice, and that I think is why a lot of people that are new just give up after awhile. Because if they were told how to start things off right it would be a much more happy and enjoyable experience. I am Thankful everyday that I have great people here on the forums that have helped me and continue to help me along the way...
 

keimaxbode

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/387185/new-well-almost-29-gal-fowlr-also-need-advice-please#post_3404784
You know, I almost feel like telling you to start over :( first of all get rid of the butterfly and the coral beauty....they need bigger and more established tanks
in a 29G..your 2 clowns and 2 banggais are it....you really do not need to add anymore fish......BUT until you get your water parameters straight you might just need to get rid of them too
Your lfs is really giving you bad advice.....Have you read the top threads in the new hobbyist section? if not read them now, and you will see where they steered you wrong on a lot of stuff.
do you have a picture of your system?
I've already read the threads and is how I found out I had been given bad advice. I do have pics but I'm afraid starting over isn't an option. My husband would divorce me. I have to do the best I can with where I am now going forward. I do have a lot of questions and is why I started with what should be my priority to make the best of the situation. I thought the discussion on test kits agreed that the Seachem was the best and most accurate. I don't mind spending $15 more as it wouldn't do me much good to get the wrong numbers and base my limited ability to make decisions on those. I will post pictures next.
Thank you for responding. I'm sorry I can't start over. Is my water that bad? I don't understand why they told me to not be concerned.
 

meowzer

Moderator
OK....1st...what are those blue things and that tan thing in the bottom right?
I don't see any powerheads.....you need them for circulation.....If starting over is NOT an option you have to get rid of the butterfly and the coral beauty.....they will not survive in this tank
That api master kit is as good as any for what you need to test for right now....you do not need an iodine test that comes with Seachem (+something else I forget what)
You ahouls NEVER have ammonia or nitrites with fish in the tank....you will have to do some more w/c's.....BUT you will never be able to keep your levels at a safe rate with all those fish.....too much bio-load
3-5G water changes are my recommendation right now....and maybe a better filter....you can buy one of those hang on ones at Walmart rated for a 30-60 gallon....they are not that high, and work well (I have one on my 29G)
most important......get rid of those 2 fish at least
 

keimaxbode

New Member
The filter is a new Aqua Clear rated for 30 gallon so I should get another one and run both and also a power head? I guess I better try to sell what I have as I can't afford all of that and don't have any way to get rid of fish - not sure what you mean - not flush them??? Sorry that I don't understand what you mean.
 

meowzer

Moderator
NO...NOT FLUSH......take them back to the store.....if they won't give you credit for them, then just give them back and take the loss....they will surely die in your tank anyway and cause you water problems in the meantime...This is a very expensive hobby....look into Koralia powerheads....
YES, you can get another aqua clear if you want...or just go to Walmart and get this...the double one....this way you only have one thing running......I forget what brand Walmart sells, but you do not need the bio-wheels....
 

imurnamine

Active Member
Regarding the picture that meowzer posted... I ran the Emperor 400 on my 72 for years & it did a FANTASTIC job! They're very reliable & quite affordable.
I'm really glad you took the time to read through the forum & you are trying to make some corrections... That is very, very good. I'm sorry that things started off to a rough start, and to be honest, I'd sever my ties with this LFS you shopped at. Unfortunately, not all LFS people are out to make happy, healthy tanks... some of them are out to just make money...
: /
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowzer http:///forum/thread/387185/new-well-almost-29-gal-fowlr-also-need-advice-please#post_3404829
NO...NOT FLUSH......take them back to the store.....if they won't give you credit for them, then just give them back and take the loss....they will surely die in your tank anyway and cause you water problems in the meantime...This is a very expensive hobby....look into Koralia powerheads....
YES, you can get another aqua clear if you want...or just go to Walmart and get this...the double one....this way you only have one thing running......I forget what brand Walmart sells, but you do not need the bio-wheels....
 

keimaxbode

New Member
I took out the pieces you mentioned - were added to see if clowns would be interested since I can't have an anemone - was something I found on a forum. I wasn't planning on adding more fish, just more CUC. Is there anything I can do with the 29G that isn't expensive. Well, I probably can't afford to do anything else after what I've already spent. Is there anyplace to post items for sale?
I'm sorry to have taken everyone's time. Thanks anyway.
 
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